Both sides need resolution to the Hayes negotiation by Friday. For Hayes, sure they may more suitors, but is he willing to bet another team will give a better offer with a team that traded for his rights. Certainly, the Flyers weren t going to low ball him during negotiations. I expect the deal to still get done.
- ravishingone

I personally think that Friday is the deadline. We're gonna know then, I think

What are you giving up for RNH? And don't say straight up for Ghost.
- FlyerFan16

Not anything, so far -- don't even know if he's available. Just was trying to get a feel for what we might define as young. No tricks

No, it's not moot. You need to rethink it. Braun is going to take the spot of a young player. Whether that young player is traded or not, it's still taking the spot of a young player. How may defenseman do they now have?
- MJL

And throwing developing players to the wolves doesn’t help them either. They got slaughtered this year. They’ve got some help. Steadying forces that young players can lean on.

Internal competition is a good thing. Now if these guys want to play, then they need to play better. Which should be the motto of any team. The best players play. Here’s looking at you Hagg, who has had two seasons in the pros already.

Nice point about RoR!
- sILKAsSINASALO

No.

And throwing developing players to the wolves doesn’t help them either. They got slaughtered this year. They’ve got some help. Steadying forces that young players can lean on.

Internal competition is a good thing. Now if these guys want to play, then they need to play better. Which should be the motto of any team. The best players play. Here’s looking at you Hagg, who has had two seasons in the pros already.
- Flyers1218

Definitely wouldn't be a crime for Hagg and Ghost to actually play better if both are still around come the fall

My main premise is not that they won't need some outside help but now is not the time to look for outside help. I would've been completely happy if they made the Niskanen trade and called it a day.
- MJL

I think they are closer then most people think.

And throwing developing players to the wolves doesn’t help them either. They got slaughtered this year. They’ve got some help. Steadying forces that young players can lean on.

Internal competition is a good thing. Now if these guys want to play, then they need to play better. Which should be the motto of any team. The best players play. Here’s looking at you Hagg, who has had two seasons in the pros already.
- Flyers1218

Just wish they could’ve brought in a bit younger internal competition. However these kids better listen up when Braun or niskanen have something to say. They’ve seen a lot.

Not anything, so far -- don't even know if he's available. Just was trying to get a feel for what we might define as young. No tricks
- AllInForFlyers

Sorry. I would take RNH in a minute. I keep reading Ghost for RNH but Edmonton would be stupid to do that deal and Chiarelli's not the GM anymore. And I like Ghost but Edmonton has different issues and lots of them and they need to get multiple good NHL players if they are trading RNH.

And throwing developing players to the wolves doesn’t help them either. They got slaughtered this year. They’ve got some help. Steadying forces that young players can lean on.

Internal competition is a good thing. Now if these guys want to play, then they need to play better. Which should be the motto of any team. The best players play. Here’s looking at you Hagg, who has had two seasons in the pros already.
- Flyers1218

They wouldn't be throwing young players to the wolves. Like I said previously, I think adding Niskanen was enough in that regard. Only other thing is needing a veteran goalie to support Hart. So if we can get a defenseman who is older and better than Sanheim, he should be moved down also and have his playing time cut? Where does it end. With that logic, they should completely abandon player development and just go out and get players who are better now. Never mind age, the future, cap etc. Still need to re-think it.

I think they are closer then most people think.
- peesinwind

20 year old goalie, top defenseman in their early 20's. Patrick needs more time.

Definitely wouldn't be a crime for Hagg and Ghost to actually play better if both are still around come the fall
- AllInForFlyers

I think Hagg is what he is. I think Ghost is somewhere between this past season and the season before but that's just speculation on my part. I think trading him now is tough to gauge what the return should be.

20 year old goalie, top defenseman in their early 20's. Patrick needs more time.
- MJL

That 20 year goalie looks as tough as that Murray Pitt guy when he did it at like 22. Just saying. And the young D ain’t so young anymore. Prove with a seasoned vet that still has some upside could make an impact on him.

I think their close. Not saying next year but they can compete for sure.

I personally think that Friday is the deadline. We're gonna know then, I think
- AllInForFlyers

Totally agree, if the agent is betting on teams like Columbus and Arizona to get close or over 7 million per year, that is quite a gamble. Essentially, the losers of the Duchense sweepstakes will be in a bidding frenzy for Hayes. Who knows, Duchense may not get between 9 to.10 million per year. If his number comes in lower then expected, Hayes get effected if he isn t signed before Duchense.

That 20 year goalie looks as tough as that Murray Pitt guy when he did it at like 22. Just saying. And the young D ain’t so young anymore. Prove with a seasoned vet that still has some upside could make an impact on him.

I think their close. Not saying next year but they can compete for sure.
- peesinwind

Well I've stated that they're 2-3 years away. 20 to 22 is two years.

Totally agree, if the agent is betting on teams like Columbus and Arizona to get close or over 7 million per year, that is quite a gamble. Essentially, the losers of the Duchense sweepstakes will be in a bidding frenzy for Hayes. Who knows, Duchense may not get between 9 to.10 million per year. If his number comes in lower then expected, Hayes get effected if he isn t signed before Duchense.
- ravishingone

That's the gamble. I'm sure Hayes has a number. Once Duchene signs, other teams looking for a center will compete and drive up the price.

Just wish they could’ve brought in a bit younger internal competition. However these kids better listen up when Braun or niskanen have something to say. They’ve seen a lot.
- Just5

I’ve been saying this for a week. We can debate all we want about the players they’ve brought in and the trades they've made so far. I don’t love Braun and I don’t love trading a 2nd for him. The Flyers had all the leverage. There is no way that trade should have happened as it did.

But what isn’t for debate is if they should stand pat again this offseason or make their big acquisition a Boyd Gordon type. The team as constructed was simply not good enough. All this talk about development, well they had development from their young players. Two years ago, Ghost scored 65 points, Provy had 17 goals, TK broke out for 25 goals and they were still fodder for the Penguins. Last year nothing broke right and they were mostly terrible.

Simple fact is this team needs help. Help that has to come from outside the organization. So they got some vets to shake up the core and lead by example. It didn’t put them in cap hell, and yes, it cost them some pieces. I’m not going to kill Fletcher for it. And who knows, maybe he will get that big fish that everyone desperately wants.... then watch the tune change. Actually, probably not, knowing this group.

I’ve been saying this for a week. We can debate all we want about the players they’ve brought in and the trades they've made so far. I don’t love Braun and I don’t love trading a 2nd for him. The Flyers had all the leverage. There is no way that trade should have happened as it did.

But what isn’t for debate is if they should stand pat again this offseason or make their big acquisition a Boyd Gordon type. The team as constructed was simply not good enough. All this talk about development, well they had development from their young players. Two years ago, Ghost scored 65 points, Provy had 17 goals, TK broke out for 25 goals and they were still fodder for the Penguins. Last year nothing broke right and they were mostly terrible.

Simple fact is this team needs help. Help that has to come from outside the organization. So they got some vets to shake up the core and lead by example. It didn’t put them in cap hell, and yes, it cost them some pieces. I’m not going to kill Fletcher for it. And who knows, maybe he will get that big fish that everyone desperately wants.... then watch the tune change. Actually, probably not, knowing this group.
- Flyers1218

That's where I am. I rooted for them and I desperately wanted them to win, but they just weren't good enough and my personal opinion is that more time wasn't gonna get them there before Giroux's decline kicks in hard

They wouldn't be throwing young players to the wolves. Like I said previously, I think adding Niskanen was enough in that regard. Only other thing is needing a veteran goalie to support Hart. So if we can get a defenseman who is older and better than Sanheim, he should be moved down also and have his playing time cut? Where does it end. With that logic, they should completely abandon player development and just go out and get players who are better now. Never mind age, the future, cap etc. Still need to re-think it.
- MJL

If they acquired a player better than Travis Sanheim, then yes, he should play over Travis Sanheim. The goal is to win. It is always to win. “You play to win the game.” It’s not a pissing contest to see who is the best at developing players. It’s who puts together a team that wins the Stanley Cup, no matter how you do it. Get that through your head. You’re so worried about 5 to 7 year windows to win multiple cups. How about just winning one. Let’s worry about that first one. Before you know it, it will be 50 years.

That's the gamble. I'm sure Hayes has a number. Once Duchene signs, other teams looking for a center will compete and drive up the price.
- MJL

The unknown is how many centers are available besides Pavelski. RNH, Kadri, Seguin, or possibly Johnson to help sign Point. Nobody really knows. Obviously, the Flyers are motivated to sign him
and I would bet they 'll meet his number.

On a side note, just read some of the comments by McKenzie on Marner negotiations. That is going to be a fascinating negotiation.

I’ve been saying this for a week. We can debate all we want about the players they’ve brought in and the trades they've made so far. I don’t love Braun and I don’t love trading a 2nd for him. The Flyers had all the leverage. There is no way that trade should have happened as it did.

But what isn’t for debate is if they should stand pat again this offseason or make their big acquisition a Boyd Gordon type. The team as constructed was simply not good enough. All this talk about development, well they had development from their young players. Two years ago, Ghost scored 65 points, Provy had 17 goals, TK broke out for 25 goals and they were still fodder for the Penguins. Last year nothing broke right and they were mostly terrible.

Simple fact is this team needs help. Help that has to come from outside the organization. So they got some vets to shake up the core and lead by example. It didn’t put them in cap hell, and yes, it cost them some pieces. I’m not going to kill Fletcher for it. And who knows, maybe he will get that big fish that everyone desperately wants.... then watch the tune change. Actually, probably not, knowing this group.
- Flyers1218

You can't rush the process. If you try to, you won't likely succeed for long. That Flyers team was a team with very young players in big roles that weren't ready for playing against a playoff proven Pens team. It would be foolish to be reactionary to that series and change your team development strategy based on those results.

Building through the draft and developing young players is not standing pat. I also think just looking at the moves made this off season and saying they aren't in cap hell is shortsighted. If they sign Hayes and their RFA's, they're looking at being within 2-3M of the upper limit. What about next off season? They're not going to do the same kind of thing to shore up areas that they feel they need to after the upcoming season? The Flyers current actions along with the mandate give to Fletcher combined with management's statements signal a trend. A move back to how they operated under Holmgren. Getting to Cap hell doesn't happen in one off season. It's cumulative over a number of seasons.

The unknown is how many centers are available besides Pavelski. RNH, Kadri, Seguin, or possibly Johnson to help sign Point. Nobody really knows. Obviously, the Flyers are motivated to sign him
and I would bet they 'll meet his number.

On a side note, just read some of the comments by McKenzie on Marner negotiations. That is going to be a fascinating negotiation.
- ravishingone

Trades are a different animal.

If they acquired a player better than Travis Sanheim, then yes, he should play over Travis Sanheim. The goal is to win. It is always to win. “You play to win the game.” It’s not a pissing contest to see who is the best at developing players. It’s who puts together a team that wins the Stanley Cup, no matter how you do it. Get that through your head. You’re so worried about 5 to 7 year windows to win multiple cups. How about just winning one. Let’s worry about that first one. Before you know it, it will be 50 years.
- Flyers1218

Exactly what I thought you'd say which is why I asked that. That's completely wrong. I disagree with your entire statement here. Recipe for failure.

You couldn't be more wrong about wanting to win multiple Cups. It's about what path of team building gives the team the best chance at winning a Cup. Your way isn't it. You're completely disconnected from the variables in the NHL in a Cap environment. Get that through your head.

Do you really think the moves made so far, including if they sign Hayes push the team towards winning a Cup?

I’ve been saying this for a week. We can debate all we want about the players they’ve brought in and the trades they've made so far. I don’t love Braun and I don’t love trading a 2nd for him. The Flyers had all the leverage. There is no way that trade should have happened as it did.

But what isn’t for debate is if they should stand pat again this offseason or make their big acquisition a Boyd Gordon type. The team as constructed was simply not good enough. All this talk about development, well they had development from their young players. Two years ago, Ghost scored 65 points, Provy had 17 goals, TK broke out for 25 goals and they were still fodder for the Penguins. Last year nothing broke right and they were mostly terrible.

Simple fact is this team needs help. Help that has to come from outside the organization. So they got some vets to shake up the core and lead by example. It didn’t put them in cap hell, and yes, it cost them some pieces. I’m not going to kill Fletcher for it. And who knows, maybe he will get that big fish that everyone desperately wants.... then watch the tune change. Actually, probably not, knowing this group.
- Flyers1218

I’m more in line with this thinking. They need help. I have no idea how you can come into this season with Patrick at 2C and laughton at 3C. Both couldn’t handle those roles last year. They obviously need a 2C. Would prefer it to come in a trade.

I have to revise my thinking. Bringing Braun and niskanen in I think may actually improve the teams chances that they retain ghost. There’s no one on the team but ghost that can handle top power play point responsibilities.

How the flyers ever going to afford all these young stars on offense defense and goal in few a years? Add on new contract for 14. Since they are you know 2-3 years away from being a legit contender. Will only have a few entry level deals if frost and farabee pan out. Cap hell I tell
You

I’m more in line with this thinking. They need help. I have no idea how you can come into this season with Patrick at 2C and laughton at 3C. Both couldn’t handle those roles last year. They obviously need a 2C. Would prefer it to come in a trade.

I have to revise my thinking. Bringing Braun and niskanen in I think may actually improve the teams chances that they retain ghost. There’s no one on the team but ghost that can handle top power play point responsibilities.
- Just5

Sanheim can play on the point on the power play but he won't be as good as Gostisbehere. Someone is getting moved.