The Flyers do see themselves as a team that can contend now. Holmgren said those exact words. Fletcher has a mandate and he's acting on it. I think he's overpaid on some moves but I don't think he's ruined the long term picture either. We'll see how the next two weeks play out.
- FlyerFan16

I posted about the mandate that Fletcher is under previously. We have to understand that it's not just about what has happened to this point. Are we to believe that it won't be the same next season, and the season after? That's how they operated every year under Holmgren. Trying to win every season. The results of that are cumulative over time. The worst thing you can be is a cap team that is not quite good enough. Doing what they're doing this off season is how you get to that point. Yea, you make the playoffs and compete, maybe win a round or two. Ultimately though, you fall short. I'd rather remain patient and build the youth up to the point where your team is close. Then you identify a weakness at that point, not now cause it most likely will be different, and use the cap assets that you smartly saved for that key move.

Pretty sure this argument is lamer.
- Feanor

You don’t have to run off to the last thread and cut and paste a message, I’m aware that I posted.

Do you need me to repost all the praise I’m seeing today? Chuck has made a couple of bad moves in the last few days and there are people here right now who are kidding themselves that they’re great moves. They’re not.

Wait I'm sorry but Morin and Hagg will never be as good as EK so why would you rather have them than him?
- bulet13

Of course they won't. Our team's top defenseman will be Provrov, Sanheim, Gostisbehere and Myers. Continue to develop them and remain smart with the cap. Have them for a decade to form your defense rather than blowing up the cap for a 30+ year old player.

No, no, you're right, I understand that it's not a 100% thing. all of the things ive read today however, that the trade is bad because Braun is:

washed up
too old
too many miles
reminds them of Kubina

etc etc etc. I wouldnt call that complimenting his play. and yes its a 2nd and 3rd round pick, i get the picks are high. But as i said before, the odds either of those picks become a player that Braun is even right now, is slim. Picks are gambles, they can turn into All stars, or they could never even play an NHL game. Getting a top 4 dman who plays 20+ minutes, has loads of playoff experience and comes with a RHD shot, who is defensively responsible, for 2 gambles of a 2nd and 3rd, is worth it for me.
- sjk540

Oh and don't worry, I'm ok with the trade. I'm of a mind that I think when you hire people in positions such as a GM you have to let them do their thing and either pass or fail from it rather than hiring someone then tying their hands together.

I think Braun is a bit of a headscratcher because of how many dmen the team has already and the amount they paid, but I would withhold judgement until I see the full composition of the team and how they come together over a season.

I personally had no idea that Coburn re-signed with TB until it was mentioned today. I don't keep an eagle eye on the signing list. I'm sure most people don't.

So if they aren't going to re-sign Braun than what is the point? To get a little better this year? Plus he blocks a younger player. How much does this move elevate the team?

I said this earlier. If you're a contending team and have a need, then getting Braun for a 2nd and 3rd is a good deal. If you're a developing team like the Flyers with young players to play at the same position, it doesn't make sense.

The only way it can make any sense is if they're trading a young defenseman. Then I have to look at what for.
- MJL

Why do they have to be a contending team to upgrade their D for a year? They are trying to get better now at the cost of 2 draft picks.

I do think a young D may be traded, but why does it not make sense to try to improve the team even if they aren’t a top contender?

I lost this discussion a few pages ago, but the point I recall was that there is now a lot less defensemen available. Some UFA’s re-signed or have target destinations. Not as much on the trade market and prices will go up. Still...just waiting to see the whole picture to be revealed before I complain about individual pieces.
- NC Flyers Fan

What teams are lined up for Justin Braun’s serves? Why does a deal like this have to be made before the draft and before free agency?

so is it about the UFA deal, or the player thats being blocked? cmon man, make up your mind?!?
- sjk540

That you think it has to be one factor or the other is extremely narrow minded. As I posted previously, judging a trade comes down to multiple factors.

You're getting more and more desperate here. It's not going to work for you.

Oh and don't worry, I'm ok with the trade. I'm of a mind that I think when you hire people in positions such as a GM you have to let them do their thing and either pass or fail from it rather than hiring someone then tying their hands together.

I think Braun is a bit of a headscratcher because of how many dmen the team has already and the amount they paid, but I would withhold judgement until I see the full composition of the team and how they come together over a season.
- shekkie

well said. I believe people are too quick to make a judgment from a GM, and from exactly what you said, a GM has a plan, and if he is hired you have to be able to let him formulate his plan and see out the vision of his team. Thats just something we have no say or control over.

I like the move for Braun specifically, but I do think it fills a need. Even with Niskanen, I think history shows you, you can never have too many dependable dmen.

That you think it has to be one factor or the other is extremely narrow minded. As I posted previously, judging a trade comes down to multiple factors.

You're getting more and more desperate here. It's not going to work for you.
- MJL

i was asking a specific question. if you flounder with it, thats on you.

I still think there's going to be a big move somewhere on the roster. I imagine they've given Hayes a deadline to sign prior to the draft so they can focus on what's next if it isn't going to be him.

Why do they have to be a contending team to upgrade their D for a year? They are trying to get better now at the cost of 2 draft picks.

I do think a young D may be traded, but why does it not make sense to try to improve the team even if they aren’t a top contender?
- Marc D

How much better does it actually make them? How about next year? Should they go after a better older player to replace another younger player? What are they trying to do? You should make moves that make you a contender. Ask yourself what has a better chance of making the team a contender. Adding guys like Braun or continuing to develop younger players to have a deep core that opens a contending window over 7-8 year period? They have invested in young defenseman to this point. They should continue to play them to give them a chance to grow as players. Adding Niskanen was enough in my view.

Why do they have to be a contending team to upgrade their D for a year? They are trying to get better now at the cost of 2 draft picks.

I do think a young D may be traded, but why does it not make sense to try to improve the team even if they aren’t a top contender?
- Marc D

Because some way, somehow, we could potentially lose a young player at a key position.

Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, Hagg, Gostisbehere, Morin. Six young players.

Niskanen, Braun. Two newly acquired older players.

Something not favorable is about to happen.

i was asking a specific question. if you flounder with it, thats on you.
- sjk540

Nah, you were trying to steer out of a situation that you put yourself in and trying to place a limit to fit your silly narrative. Because people have said that Braun is not a good player because they posted they didn't like the trade according to you.

Justin Braun...

Who wears 61 now? Myers or Braun?

you can absolutely have a bad trade for a good player.
- shekkie

So a 2nd and a 3rd for a good player. Everyone would be dancing. But no most people are crying like children over 2 picks that would most likely produce a 4th line player at best

Dude we haven't been on Earth since page 5 of this board
- bulet13

Page 5? Today?

Nah, you were trying to steer out of a situation that you put yourself in and trying to place a limit to fit your silly narrative. Because people have said that Braun is not a good player because they posted they didn't like the trade according to you.
- MJL

Actually, yeah.

But you've already said the dumbest thing ive ever seen posted on any public posting forum so ill bid you goodbye and adieu.

***hint - goodbye and adieu mean the same thing

all i can say is the Flyers banked on a young prospect last year to remain at the level at which he played the end of the season before with no one covering his ass. it burned them.

Sanheim, Myers: one of them could falter in their progress...BOTH of them could
Ghost, Provy: one of them could continue on their down time....BOTH of them could

maybe one of those dudes are GONE!

if they trade for a trouba, he BLOCKS someone in the top 4. Niskanen and Braun can both either play up or down. if the young dudes play out of their minds, our playoff blue line has those two new vets on the bottom pair.

in the more likely situation of some ups and downs, they can go up and down. they aren't long term, high money dudes who MUST play in the top 4.

So a 2nd and a 3rd for a good player. Everyone would be dancing. But no most people are crying like children over 2 picks that would most likely produce a 4th line player at best
- Richieattack18

They could probably recoup one, if not both those picks by trading Hagg. Flyers needed some steady defensive vet presence and got it before the July 1st circus starts.

So a 2nd and a 3rd for a good player. Everyone would be dancing. But no most people are crying like children over 2 picks that would most likely produce a 4th line player at best
- Richieattack18

I feel like its simple to grasp no? I mean, i guess not so simple, but i thought it was.

all i can say is the Flyers banked on a young prospect last year to remain at the level at which he played the end of the season before with no one covering his ass. it burned them.

Sanheim, Myers: one of them could falter in their progress...BOTH of them could
Ghost, Provy: one of them could continue on their down time....BOTH of them could

maybe one of those dudes are GONE!

if they trade for a trouba, he BLOCKS someone in the top 4. Niskanen and Braun can both either play up or down. if the young dudes play out of their minds, our playoff blue line has those two new vets on the bottom pair.

in the more likely situation of some ups and downs, they can go up and down. they aren't long term, high money dudes who MUST play in the top 4.
- eshake

exactly! thank you!

I personally had no idea that Coburn re-signed with TB until it was mentioned today. I don't keep an eagle eye on the signing list. I'm sure most people don't.
- MJL

Crazy, right? I don’t have a “Coburn watch” on my phone, ready to alert me of his whereabouts.

You don’t have to run off to the last thread and cut and paste a message, I’m aware that I posted.

Do you need me to repost all the praise I’m seeing today? Chuck has made a couple of bad moves in the last few days and there are people here right now who are kidding themselves that they’re great moves. They’re not.
- SuperSchennBros

Dude you're losing the battle on that front. Go read most of the responses to the trade. You said "everyone" will support fletcher no matter what, and that's not true. So stop trying to retract your comment

Yes, I would. The Flyers should not be making those kind of UFA deals at this point in their team's development.

I understand why you would not address my last statement. You inserted your foot into your mouth.
- MJL

Your mouth is a foot