I thought Elliott Freidman said, or rather believes that if Marner wants $11M, the Leafs want him to sign an 8 yr deal.
- PatC80

Freidman is speculating.

Those sound like Marner demands not the Leafs.

Who fills in for Dermott and Hyman to start the year?
- PatC80

Exactly. They have massive challenges. It will take an absolute miracle to improve this team over last year.

So even in a perfect world where Marleau, Brown, and Z are traded with no cap hit coming back, and Marner signing for 9 million, and K and J signing for 3 each thats still less than 12 million to fill 8 roster spots including 4 d men. This perfect scenario of course isn't happening either. Massive challenges.
- aminnes

Top 9 fwds would be filled out ...would only need a couple of 4th liners. And the back end is destined to have slots 5-7 filled out with guys making 1 mill or less (Rosen, Dermott, Holl, etc...).

They'd have about 7 million to add top 4 dman or two if they went that route.

Who fills in for Dermott and Hyman to start the year?
- PatC80

Resign Tyler Ennis put him on the 4th line with Gauthier and Petan and move Moore up to Hymans spot for the time being. Dermotts replacement will be someone within the organization Borgman, Liligren, Sandin. They might even still resign Hainsey.

The one thing I don't understand though is why is there so much talk about wanting Gardiner back. Was I the only one to see him (frank) up on the first 2 goals in game 7. Does anyone realize that without even including 2013 Gardiner was a -7 in the last 2 Game 7s against the Bruins.

If a team wants to pay that pylon 6-7 million they can go right ahead but I'm sick of tired of watching him not getting better. I'm a realist the Leafs need to come back to reality a bit this coming season. We are going to be in a battle just to make the playoffs.

Teams that sucked this year will be better next year. I expect Florida to be better just because of Queneville. Montreal will be there and honestly the Sabres will probably be better. Honestly the Leafs may only be the 5th best team in there division this year.

Resign Tyler Ennis put him on the 4th line with Gauthier and Petan and move Moore up to Hymans spot for the time being. Dermotts replacement will be someone within the organization Borgman, Liligren, Sandin. They might even still resign Hainsey.

The one thing I don't understand though is why is there so much talk about wanting Gardiner back. Was I the only one to see him (frank) up on the first 2 goals in game 7. Does anyone realize that without even including 2013 Gardiner was a -7 in the last 2 Game 7s against the Bruins.

If a team wants to pay that pylon 6-7 million they can go right ahead but I'm sick of tired of watching him not getting better. I'm a realist the Leafs need to come back to reality a bit this coming season. We are going to be in a battle just to make the playoffs.

Teams that sucked this year will be better next year. I expect Florida to be better just because of Queneville. Montreal will be there and honestly the Sabres will probably be better. Honestly the Leafs may only be the 5th best team in there division this year.
- Leafsfan9329

Gardiner has to go. Agreed.

Who fills in for Dermott and Hyman to start the year?
- PatC80

Some Ahlers will be over-hyped in training camp and will get to disappoint us for 6-8 weeks while TD and ZH get healthy.

Bracco and Lindgren?

new blog about Nylander trade

Resign Tyler Ennis put him on the 4th line with Gauthier and Petan and move Moore up to Hymans spot for the time being. Dermotts replacement will be someone within the organization Borgman, Liligren, Sandin. They might even still resign Hainsey.

The one thing I don't understand though is why is there so much talk about wanting Gardiner back. Was I the only one to see him (frank) up on the first 2 goals in game 7. Does anyone realize that without even including 2013 Gardiner was a -7 in the last 2 Game 7s against the Bruins.

If a team wants to pay that pylon 6-7 million they can go right ahead but I'm sick of tired of watching him not getting better. I'm a realist the Leafs need to come back to reality a bit this coming season. We are going to be in a battle just to make the playoffs.

Teams that sucked this year will be better next year. I expect Florida to be better just because of Queneville. Montreal will be there and honestly the Sabres will probably be better. Honestly the Leafs may only be the 5th best team in there division this year.
- Leafsfan9329

Gardiner leaving is addition by subtraction. But he should have been moved at the deadline. This regime seems to be all about letting free agents walk for nothing, and it will diminish their assets in the long run.

As per the first point, I know they can fill out the roster, that's not really the issue. Plugs fill holes. It's the ability to improve that will be pretty much impossible unless Dubas pulls a Ujiri. I don't think he has it in him, and the team will regress to some extent next year.

They still don't have a backup goalie in your scenario either another spot I forgot to ad. So okay, they take a gamble and roll with the minimum and hope for an injury? How in the world are they better than last year? How are they signing 3 and 2 plus a backup of any quality with 12 million. And again, that's under the most lucky circumstance where they move Marleau, Brown and Z and get no cap hit back. Even in a totally unrealistic crazy scenario they are screwed cap wise right here. And then have to hope for an injury while already having the minimum lineup? What?
- aminnes

Did you take the additional 5 million off for horton?

Who fills in for Dermott and Hyman to start the year?
- PatC80

I have no idea. A marlie. A waiver wire pickup, a cheap $1M signing. the numbers quoted earlier included the cap hits for those guys, so I included them as on the roster. Feel free to reference 8 or 10 guys to sign, and refactor the cap numbers stated, closer to $30M if you want. I'm just providing context to the numbers someone else posted. You can't include the cap hit to these guys if you're not going to include them as a roster spot taken.

So even in a perfect world where Marleau, Brown, and Z are traded with no cap hit coming back, and Marner signing for 9 million, and K and J signing for 3 each thats still less than 12 million to fill 8 roster spots including 4 d men. This perfect scenario of course isn't happening either. Massive challenges.
- aminnes

As stated, you're trying to build a roster and fit it under the cap with more players than are allowed on an NHL roster.

Is it tight? yep. But not like you're claiming. you're overstating a roster by 2 players. 4 players over the minimum.

They still don't have a backup goalie in your scenario either another spot I forgot to ad. So okay, they take a gamble and roll with the minimum and hope for an injury? How in the world are they better than last year? How are they signing 3 and 2 plus a backup of any quality with 12 million. And again, that's under the most lucky circumstance where they move Marleau, Brown and Z and get no cap hit back. Even in a totally unrealistic crazy scenario they are screwed cap wise right here. And then have to hope for an injury while already having the minimum lineup? What?
- aminnes

Why would they hope for an injury? They wouldn't NEED one in that scenario, but quite frankly, they WILL have some. They do every year.


And the players they have to sign for those $12M are mostly 4th liners, along with bottom pairing dmen. I expect Rosen to take a spot, and likely another prospect.


I do'nt expect them to be better this year. I think they'll tread water.

Then with everything in place, no important contracts expiring, they'll have a nother shot at improving next summer.

Did you take the additional 5 million off for horton?
- Aaron_85

LTIR is only applicable if you need it. Meaning if the cap is 82 million, they could go up to 87.3 INCLUDING Horton. So it isn't going to be the big cap relief everyone thinks. It is only used if needed. So Yes, they go over by 5.3, but that 5.3 is already gone in Horton at that point anyway, so his status actually doesn't matter as the rest of the roster is still taking up the 82 anyway.

Resign Tyler Ennis put him on the 4th line with Gauthier and Petan and move Moore up to Hymans spot for the time being. Dermotts replacement will be someone within the organization Borgman, Liligren, Sandin. They might even still resign Hainsey.

The one thing I don't understand though is why is there so much talk about wanting Gardiner back. Was I the only one to see him (frank) up on the first 2 goals in game 7. Does anyone realize that without even including 2013 Gardiner was a -7 in the last 2 Game 7s against the Bruins.

If a team wants to pay that pylon 6-7 million they can go right ahead but I'm sick of tired of watching him not getting better. I'm a realist the Leafs need to come back to reality a bit this coming season. We are going to be in a battle just to make the playoffs.

Teams that sucked this year will be better next year. I expect Florida to be better just because of Queneville. Montreal will be there and honestly the Sabres will probably be better. Honestly the Leafs may only be the 5th best team in there division this year.
- Leafsfan9329

I'm in agreement on the outlook of the season. However, I like it to be positive and just say it's a time to let the prospects figure some stuff out while JT, Matthews and Andersen push them to the playoffs, wild card is fine.

Why would they hope for an injury? They wouldn't NEED one in that scenario, but quite frankly, they WILL have some. They do every year.
- prock

You said 'until an injury hits which would open up the space.' No injury, no space. Your words. Plus if they are running the minimum, with 2 guys already injured your entire scenario makes no sense.

LTIR is only applicable if you need it. Meaning if the cap is 82 million, they could go up to 87.3 INCLUDING Horton. So it isn't going to be the big cap relief everyone thinks. It is only used if needed. So Yes, they go over by 5.3, but that 5.3 is already gone in Horton at that point anyway, so his status actually doesn't matter as the rest of the roster is still taking up the 82 anyway.
- aminnes

Yes, but you calculated the space with him on the active roster. They still technically have the extra room afterwards.

I personally am still hoping they trade Horton's deal if they can find a suitor. Hell, I'd trade Brown and Horton together for a 4th round pick at this point.

Top 9 fwds would be filled out ...would only need a couple of 4th liners. And the back end is destined to have slots 5-7 filled out with guys making 1 mill or less (Rosen, Dermott, Holl, etc...).

They'd have about 7 million to add top 4 dman or two if they went that route.
- The Law

Correct.

If they fill out their third pairing with Marlies and cheap signings, IF they can actually dump Marleau, Z and Brown, they have enough to sign a $5M plus dman.

It's a tall talk to get rid of these guys, and first things first though.

You said 'until an injury hits which would open up the space.' No injury, no space. Your words. Plus if they are running the minimum, with 2 guys already injured your entire scenario makes no sense.
- aminnes

No injury, no need for more players either. Funny how that works.

And no, I never siad they WOULD run the minimum. They could. I was pointing out that the numbers you're using are building a roster over the max. you're freaking out that the Leafs don't have the cap space to ice a roster with more players than you're even allowed to have.

As stated, you're trying to build a roster and fit it under the cap with more players than are allowed on an NHL roster.

Is it tight? yep. But not like you're claiming. you're overstating a roster by 2 players. 4 players over the minimum.
- prock

Let's say the Cap is 82. Add Horton they can go to 87.3. They currently have 10 forwards under contract at 46.9 million. They currently have 5 defensemen at 15 million. Goalies at 5.75 and Horton's 5.3.

There at 73 million at this very moment. That leaves 14.3 million. That's 14.3 to resign Marner, Kap, Jon, and Ennis or his replacement, and currently 2 more d with Holl included in the 7. This is simply impossible.

Now. Under the perfect scenario mentioned, Marleau, Z and Brown all leave and no cap hit comes back to the Leafs. If this happens, the space available goes up to 27.15 million. However this now leaves them with only 8 forwards under contract and only 4 d men under contract.

If Marner signs for far less than his ask, at say 9, and both Kap and Jon also settle for 3 each, your at 15 million gone, and still have 2 forward spots and 3 d spots left to fill with the 12.15. 5 players.

So yes, they will fill out the roster, but it will not get better, and this is if everything goes perfect for them.

Realty says Marner signs for at least 10, map and Jon at least 3.5 each, and Marleu isn;t going anywhere unless the Leafs give another talented player away in the deal and effectively getting worse. Z and Brown maybe could get traded without cap coming back. Under this scenario they will have 4 million to sign 2 d, 2 forwards. So the d core will consist of Reilly, Muzzin, Holl, Dermott well into the season, and rookies/plugs. I hope Anderson is ready to experience what Allan Bester did.

LTIR is only applicable if you need it. Meaning if the cap is 82 million, they could go up to 87.3 INCLUDING Horton. So it isn't going to be the big cap relief everyone thinks. It is only used if needed. So Yes, they go over by 5.3, but that 5.3 is already gone in Horton at that point anyway, so his status actually doesn't matter as the rest of the roster is still taking up the 82 anyway.
- aminnes

IF needed

So if they want to spend to 87 million they can use it. Stop pretending like it’s not there.

Let's say the Cap is 82. Add Horton they can go to 87.3. They currently have 10 forwards under contract at 46.9 million. They currently have 5 defensemen at 15 million. Goalies at 5.75 and Horton's 5.3.

There at 73 million at this very moment. That leaves 14.3 million. That's 14.3 to resign Marner, Kap, Jon, and Ennis or his replacement, and currently 2 more d with Holl included in the 7. This is simply impossible.

Now. Under the perfect scenario mentioned, Marleau, Z and Brown all leave and no cap hit comes back to the Leafs. If this happens, the space available goes up to 27.15 million. However this now leaves them with only 8 forwards under contract and only 4 d men under contract.

If Marner signs for far less than his ask, at say 9, and both Kap and Jon also settle for 3 each, your at 15 million gone, and still have 2 forward spots and 3 d spots left to fill with the 12.15. 5 players.

So yes, they will fill out the roster, but it will not get better, and this is if everything goes perfect for them.

Realty says Marner signs for at least 10, map and Jon at least 3.5 each, and Marleu isn;t going anywhere unless the Leafs give another talented player away in the deal and effectively getting worse. Z and Brown maybe could get traded without cap coming back. Under this scenario they will have 4 million to sign 2 d, 2 forwards. So the d core will consist of Reilly, Muzzin, Holl, Dermott well into the season, and rookies/plugs. I hope Anderson is ready to experience what Allan Bester did.
- aminnes

This guy^

This guy^
- Santo_44

Leafs can’t have too many good players because they will have a higher cap hit and be in cap hell.

Leafs can’t replace some of those guys with lesser but cheaper players because that would make them less good.


Leafs suck either way. Blow it up. No, (frank) that. Fold the franchise. Can’t ever win. Can’t have good players because reasons. Can’t have depth players playing in depth roles making league minimum because reasons. (frank) me.

Resign Tyler Ennis put him on the 4th line with Gauthier and Petan and move Moore up to Hymans spot for the time being. Dermotts replacement will be someone within the organization Borgman, Liligren, Sandin. They might even still resign Hainsey.

The one thing I don't understand though is why is there so much talk about wanting Gardiner back. Was I the only one to see him (frank) up on the first 2 goals in game 7. Does anyone realize that without even including 2013 Gardiner was a -7 in the last 2 Game 7s against the Bruins.

If a team wants to pay that pylon 6-7 million they can go right ahead but I'm sick of tired of watching him not getting better. I'm a realist the Leafs need to come back to reality a bit this coming season. We are going to be in a battle just to make the playoffs.

Teams that sucked this year will be better next year. I expect Florida to be better just because of Queneville. Montreal will be there and honestly the Sabres will probably be better. Honestly the Leafs may only be the 5th best team in there division this year.
- Leafsfan9329

Oh?

Leafs can’t have too many good players because they will have a higher cap hit and be in cap hell.

Leafs can’t replace some of those guys with lesser but cheaper players because that would make them less good.


Leafs suck either way. Blow it up. No, (frank) that. Fold the franchise. Can’t ever win. Can’t have good players because reasons. Can’t have depth players playing in depth roles making league minimum because reasons. (frank) me.
- Steven_Seagull

I agree, it's over

So even in a perfect world where Marleau, Brown, and Z are traded with no cap hit coming back, and Marner signing for 9 million, and K and J signing for 3 each thats still less than 12 million to fill 8 roster spots including 4 d men. This perfect scenario of course isn't happening either. Massive challenges.
- aminnes

Massive opportunities.