I get back from work and it looks like some female genitalia wants "research" and "credibility"? Well, allow me to show you the research I did prior to making that post.

Yes, his difficult year was when he played on the top pairing with Rielly and spent 43.5% of his total minutes (source #1) playing against the opposition's best players. The season he "excelled" to the tune of -10.91% team relative goal share, -6.13% team relative HD chance share and minuses in pretty much every other team relative stat (source #2). While Gardiner played merely 28.9% of his time against the best, Zaitsev and Rielly played the hard minutes and their results suffered because of it

A defensive role only in that he had to cover for Gardiner's offensive sorties. In doing that, he started seeing weaker competition (see source #1, 2017-18) and saw his numbers take a bit of a jump, but it didn't last. The following year under much the same conditions, his results took a substantial dip as his poor play dragged down the results of literally every Dman he partnered with:

Partner/GF% Together/Zaitsev GF% Away/Partner GF% Away/Diff.

Gardiner/ 50.9%/ 33.3%/ 61.5%/ -28.2%
Muzzin/ 50%/ 43.5%/ 70.4%/ -26.9%
Dermott/ 44.4%/ 50%/ 52.2%/ -2.2%
Hainsey/ 36.4%/ 50%/ 58.2%/ -8.2%
(he saw 39 mins of 5-on-5 time w/ Rielly)

But those are some small sample sizes that- as such an evidence-based and credible man such as yourself must know- needed to be compared to a larger one. So here's his results with those same players over his whole career:

Gardiner/ 51.6%/ 43.3%/ 65.8%/ -22.5%
Rielly/ 40.2%/ 50.2%/ 55.8%/ -5.6
Muzzin/ 50%/ 43.5%/ 70.4%/ -26.9%
Dermott/ 44.4%/ 50%/ 52.2%/ -2.2%
Hainsey/ 48%/ 50%/ 56%/ -6%

Keeping in mind that Maple Leafs were running a 54.1% GF during this stretch of 3 seasons. Turns out the evidence supported my initial findings- the one's you seem intent on decrying as "not researched" and "non-credible". I'd go into more nuanced numbers that would show more precise measures of what he's good at and what's leading to his failures, but I feel no inclination to waste such on you.

And here's the fundamental part that you're not understanding: he'd be playing the same role here. He'd be paired on the 2nd pairing, playing secondary opposition and having to cover for an offensive LD with a tendency to over-extend at times (Nurse). If he's not suited to play the role in Toronto, he's not suited to our 2nd pair.

Good, keep your trash. As we've established, we want nothing to do with him and his propensity for being a significant drag on all his D partners. At least Russell's contract will be over in 2 years.

Then go ahead and take all those other means of freeing up cap space because Zaitsev is precisely what we want to avoid: bad, overplayed and overpaid.

Congratulations on showing your overwhelming conceit and allowing me the opportunity to lay out why Zaitsev would be among the worst possible acquisitions any team could make. I already gave away 1st prize a few years ago, but here's your participation award:



___________

Source #1: http://www.puckiq.com/players/8479458
Source #2: http://www.naturalstattri...te=r&v=p&playerid=8479458
- MaximumBone

Yet other fans believe Dreger with his stories that every single Leaf RFA is leaving due to an offersheet.
- RogerRoeper

Which isn’t going to happen....Marner surely isn’t going anywhere except to the bank to cash in.....MAYBE a team goes after Kapanen

Ebs signed a 5 year deal with the Isles so that’s one less rumour to listen to this off season....maybe the Hall chatter can go away too

- RatedR80

Such a (frank)ing dingus, right?

First off, I didn't mention Corsi even once. However, your immediate dismissal of an idea by virtue of the fact that you see a non-traditional stat is clear evidence of your deeply-rooted arrogance.

For clarity, Corsi has little to no bearing on evaluation of an individual without serious contextual references listed in conjunction. I listed RESULTS-based stats that detail precisely why your "asset" is, in fact, a liability. All numbers are 5-on-5 where PP and PK numbers hold minimal bearing.

Care for more evidence? While Zaitsev did see a drop in offensive zone starts from 2016-17 to 2017-18, he actually saw a STEEP decline (from 281 to a prorated 238) over that same year stretch which totaled out to a 3.15% positive jump in Off. Zone Starts year-over-year. That goes hand-in-hand with the fewer minutes he played against lesser competition as outlined by my previous post.

This past year, he saw a noticeable jump downward in zone start that coincide with his being poop-caved in the slot (to the tune of a -12.5% team-relative HDGF%). Likely doesn't help having to cover for Gardiner, but there's also a reason literally everyone thrives away from Zaitsev and it's not because he plays "the tough minutes".

I agree. A healthy dose of viewership is also important to qualify my statistical suppositions and I've seen enough of Zaitsev's play (his games against the Oilers, Sens, playoffs and couple scattered other ones) to reinforce those stances. Contrary to you, I work to integrate both methods of evaluation to come my conclusions.

If you're content "trusting your eyes" then so be it; just don't expect anyone to take your opinion seriously when you flatly deny the proven utility of non-traditional metrics. One needs only read a single study on the unreliability of human memory to understand why the 'eye test' alone is an ineffective method of evaluation.


"Give me research and evidence" followed closely by "take your research and evidence and shove it". A classic tactic of a conceited child And I'm the female genitalia for responding to your thinly-veiled assertions of stupidity (see: "bye bye, credibility" and "do some research...") in kind? Get over yourself.

And stop filating yourself for even one second Your flaccid attempt at deriding my life when both of us are just a couple of female genitalias arguing about hockey online is beyond pathetic. Grow up.
- MaximumBone

I see you have declined the opportunity to buck the 'I have no (frank)ing life to speak of' trend. I can legitimately applaud that. Have nothing but respect for a man who picks a hill to die on and then dies on it.

I can also applaud you touting diversity in various metrics to enforce your point, and then sticking to GF% as the sole department to reinforce your point. Like 'hey dude, you're wrong because I've researched this and that and can show you from a million angles why you suck, and I'm going to show you that right now by utilizing the exact same stat relentlessly through various arguments'

I do appreciate that you backed off from cock eating jokes, you subtly recognizing that naming yourself maximumbone probably negated your ability to make cock eating jokes is a good idea.

There was no argument whatsoever, I disagreed with the logic used by the blogger and gave an opinion. You proceeded to do the 'aaaah not a fan of my team I'm gonna jump down his throat for no reason as close to 5000 words without going over as I can' thing.

I'll stick with the your parents must be proud argument. Because I'm positive your father zipped up one of his nuts moments before you were conceived, and being a hockeybuzz champion has got to be miles above the bar they figured you would hit sorting bottles.

(frank) off. You disagree on zaitsev, cool. What has two thumbs and doesn't give a poop which hill you die on? Me. All the best on your quest to be the smartest kid with downs syndrome.

Ebs signed a 5 year deal with the Isles so that’s one less rumour to listen to this off season....maybe the Hall chatter can go away too
- RatedR80

Solid deal for both sides. Eberle likely still has it in him to score ~50 points a year with a 60 point year or two in there and at 5.5mil, that's a reasonable bet. I'd take Zucker at 5.5mil over him 7 days a week, but that deal was signed a few years ago. The team also mitigates too much risk and keeps the deal from being buyout-proof (though it isn't a clean one, either). I'm glad he found a place there.

First of all, and I can't emphasize this enough... You need a (frank)ing life. In every sense of the term. Your parents must be so proud.

Great, a Corsi dork. The be all and end all. Where every relevant argument goes to die. So those debates are always hopeless, I'll leave you to it.

So really, only one question. Which one of those areas represents the part where zaitsev went from top PP unit and damn near 40 points, to being shoved into the top penalty killing role for two years? You could also plow your GF% straight up your hole and focus on the switch to defensive zone starts, but I mean, this is the kind of poop that comes from actually watching games and not just turning to corsi stats. So what do you do.

A cock eating joke from the guy named maximumbone, that's (frank)ing adorable.

I mean, you don't have to be such a female genitalia. But from the massive display of 'I have no life whatsoever', and 'really the only thing that does it for me anymore is being a female genitalia on hockeybuzz', I can see why you immediately went there. Parents must be over the moon.
- joel878

I think it’s you who needs to get a life. Are you a flat earther?

Such a (frank)ing dingus, right?
- MaximumBone

Max: Makes educated assessment.

Bozo: "Go do some research before you talk about something you know nothing about!"

Max: Presents research.

Bozo: "Dat truth hurts muh feels. Research is for nerds, watch some hockey and get a life."

Damn this joel clown responded again. And yet, through all of the bytes lost and hot air expended he hasn't offered a single argument to support his point. Nor has he even offered a single proper rebuttal of any of the points raised by you.

I see you have declined the opportunity to buck the 'I have no (frank)ing life to speak of' trend. I can legitimately applaud that. Have nothing but respect for a man who picks a hill to die on and then dies on it.

I do appreciate that you backed off from cock eating jokes, you subtly recognizing that naming yourself maximumbone probably negated your ability to make cock eating jokes is a good idea.
- joel878

We get it, Captain Holier-Than-Thou. Your goading is just normal discussion while mine is evidence of some glaring character deficiency. Your flaccid attempts to deride me on the basis of "having no life" only make this more pathetic for you

There was no argument whatsoever, I disagreed with the logic used by the blogger and gave an opinion. You proceeded to do the 'aaaah not a fan of my team I'm gonna jump down his throat for no reason as close to 5000 words without going over as I can' thing.
- joel878

What is an argument but an expression of and contesting of differing logic/opinion? Contrary to your reading of it, I didn't proceed down that path until after you began with your brand of derision. My first post laid out why I believed your correction was wrong and you seem to have misunderstood that to be an attack. The only even mildly combative statement I made in my first post was regarding Holland buying your trash which perhaps you interpreted as calling your opinion trash, but I merely meant we're not buying the Leafs' trash.

I'll concede I likely accelerated the dialogue down an unproductive path with my brand of derision, but I'm not the one sitting here suggesting I'm perfect. Sometimes the right thing to do is overlooked in favour of a little no-harm contest of words.

I can also applaud you touting diversity in various metrics to enforce your point, and then sticking to GF% as the sole department to reinforce your point. Like 'hey dude, you're wrong because I've researched this and that and can show you from a million angles why you suck, and I'm going to show you that right now by utilizing the exact same stat relentlessly through various arguments'
- joel878

I pointed out a clear reason why I didn't go beyond results-stats (goal share numbers) and your last post wherein you chose "Corsi nerd" as my title reinforced my need to not go any further. If you deride the mere mention of an stat like goal for %, then you're surely not gonna be receptive to anything more nuanced. That's why you don't get anything more. I provided you the sources for my information and the reason why I didn't intend to invest the time in detailing the further analysis. Further:

The season he "excelled" to the tune of -10.91% team relative goal share, -6.13% team relative HD chance share and minuses in pretty much every other team relative stat (source #2).

This part is intended as a 'you have eyes; go look for yourself', but your lazy, arrogance prevents you from even doing that. If you eyes are so good at reading and analyzing play in real-time then they should be able to read a website.

(frank) off. You disagree on zaitsev, cool. What has two thumbs and doesn't give a poop which hill you die on?
- joel878

Genghis Khan, presumably. He had bigger problems to deal with.

Max: Makes educated assessment.

Bozo: "Go do some research before you talk about something you know nothing about!"

Max: Presents research.

Bozo: "Dat truth hurts muh feels. Research is for nerds, watch some hockey and get a life."

Damn this joel clown responded again. And yet, through all of the bytes lost and hot air expended he hasn't offered a single argument to support his point. Nor has he even offered a single proper rebuttal of any of the points raised by you.
- RonPielep

He doesn't need 'research'; he has eyes, remember? The proposition that "because I saw it, it must be real" is a brand of faith that evidence can't combat. Study after study can point out how much is missed and straight up conjured by the mind in viewing an event, but it doesn't mean anything to those of the All-Seeing Eyes.

I know I immaturely tilted the conversation heavily after he shook the board a bit, but I don't mind a bit of banter! Adds a little bit of intrigue to the day

I see you have declined the opportunity to buck the 'I have no (frank)ing life to speak of' trend. I can legitimately applaud that. Have nothing but respect for a man who picks a hill to die on and then dies on it.

I can also applaud you touting diversity in various metrics to enforce your point, and then sticking to GF% as the sole department to reinforce your point. Like 'hey dude, you're wrong because I've researched this and that and can show you from a million angles why you suck, and I'm going to show you that right now by utilizing the exact same stat relentlessly through various arguments'

I do appreciate that you backed off from cock eating jokes, you subtly recognizing that naming yourself maximumbone probably negated your ability to make cock eating jokes is a good idea.

There was no argument whatsoever, I disagreed with the logic used by the blogger and gave an opinion. You proceeded to do the 'aaaah not a fan of my team I'm gonna jump down his throat for no reason as close to 5000 words without going over as I can' thing.

I'll stick with the your parents must be proud argument. Because I'm positive your father zipped up one of his nuts moments before you were conceived, and being a hockeybuzz champion has got to be miles above the bar they figured you would hit sorting bottles.

(frank) off. You disagree on zaitsev, cool. What has two thumbs and doesn't give a poop which hill you die on? Me. All the best on your quest to be the smartest kid with downs syndrome.
- joel878

Typical Leafs fan right here

Disappointed that Reveen didn't take Connor McMichael just for the name.

Such a (frank)ing dingus, right?
- MaximumBone

You have spent way too many words on him but I do enjoy watching such a one sided beat down

Solid deal for both sides. Eberle likely still has it in him to score ~50 points a year with a 60 point year or two in there and at 5.5mil, that's a reasonable bet. I'd take Zucker at 5.5mil over him 7 days a week, but that deal was signed a few years ago. The team also mitigates too much risk and keeps the deal from being buyout-proof (though it isn't a clean one, either). I'm glad he found a place there.
- MaximumBone

I think most would take Zucker over Ebs but I didn’t think Ebs would sign for 5.5 I figured he would get at least 6

You have spent way too many words on him but I do enjoy watching such a one sided beat down
- RatedR80

I have too many words to spare as it is. I don't mind throwing them around all willy-nilly I just burned an extra 1100 on an article about Zaitsev while engaged with that dingus.

I have too many words to spare as it is. I don't mind throwing them around all willy-nilly I just burned an extra 1100 on an article about Zaitsev while engaged with that dingus.
- MaximumBone

Is said article available for reading?

Is said article available for reading?
- RatedR80

It has to be reviewed, but I imagine it'll be up within a day

It has to be reviewed, but I imagine it'll be up within a day
- MaximumBone

Disappointed that Reveen didn't take Connor McMichael just for the name.
- RonPielep

Heard Flames are drafting him

Those two are now sucking each other in purgatory. Where the (frank) is JB ?
- Reveen.

I would just be hapy JB hasn't been here, and not worry about where he has been or he might come back.
I see thread boss is still spending 5-6 hours of his day on this site, and still thinks he will someday be a blogger.

You have spent way too many words on him but I do enjoy watching such a one sided beat down
- RatedR80

So, the guys in the oiler blog all ganged up on me. *tear face*

At least your team is good!

*runs away*

Max: Makes educated assessment.

Bozo: "Go do some research before you talk about something you know nothing about!"

Max: Presents research.

Bozo: "Dat truth hurts muh feels. Research is for nerds, watch some hockey and get a life."

Damn this joel clown responded again. And yet, through all of the bytes lost and hot air expended he hasn't offered a single argument to support his point. Nor has he even offered a single proper rebuttal of any of the points raised by you.
- RonPielep

Oh just calm down Ron peelip, you're going to need a quadruple bypass ffs.

i really hope they arnt serrious about sending poolparty with lucic for erikson, omg, only the oilers.

So, the guys in the oiler blog all ganged up on me. *tear face*

At least your team is good!

*runs away*
- joel878

There's no better lube than the tears of your opponent

So, the guys in the oiler blog all ganged up on me. *tear face*

At least your team is good!

*runs away*
- joel878

Ganged up on you? that’s a good one