And G lined up at C over 1164 times this past season and 1088 times the season before. It's not like he's strictly doing winger stuff only.

- Tomahawk

Taking faceoffs doesn't mean he played center for all those shifts.

He spent 55% of his 5on5 minutes with Couturier, and they were dominant. Without Couturier he was gashed in shot attempts and produced points at a much lower rate.

Stop with this “they aren’t ready” crap. No one knows when any team or young player is ready. There isn’t some magic wand. Anyone with decent talent can win in this league, just got to get into the tournament. Two years ago Ghost and Provy were ready and now they aren’t. TK has scored over 20 goals twice already, but somehow he isn’t ready. If Sanheim regresses is he “not ready”? Players have up years and down years. You supplement the players you have with good players when the opportunity arises (trades, draft, FA).

Debate which player that is all you want, but at some point you’ve got to start getting better as a team and they finally appear they are going to get that help from management to supplement the great young players Hexy provided.
- Flyers1218

Dude, Frost has to be at least 25, you don't get it!! I really don't see why this team can't make a couple additions via trade or free agency and be ready to compete next year

Stop with this “they aren’t ready” crap. No one knows when any team or young player is ready. There isn’t some magic wand. Anyone with decent talent can win in this league, just got to get into the tournament. Two years ago Ghost and Provy were ready and now they aren’t. TK has scored over 20 goals twice already, but somehow he isn’t ready. If Sanheim regresses is he “not ready”? Players have up years and down years. You supplement the players you have with good players when the opportunity arises (trades, draft, FA).

Debate which player that is all you want, but at some point you’ve got to start getting better as a team and they finally appear they are going to get that help fromy management to supplement the great young players Hexy provided.
- Flyers1218

Ah, the old just get in and anything can happen argument. Yea, that's true but that's not the way a team should be managed and built. The goal in my view is to give your team as a wide of an open window as you can for as long as you can. There is a way to increase your odds of having that winning season. I also disagree vehemently that there is no way of knowing that a young player is ready or not. For example, the Flyers young defense needs considerable more seasoning before they are legitimately ready to form the defense corps of a cup team. Their goaltender is 20 years old.

Who says no?

To montreal: Voracek and Gostisbehere

To philadelphia: Domi, Poehling or Mete and 15.

Look up Chuck Fletcher's history of figuring it out w/ the Minnesota Wild.
- Tomahawk

And yet he’s a general manager, that got hired a second time, while we sit on a website ranting and raving about how stupid he is. I’d say he is winning.

And what if they don’t? Then you are very likely headed for another poop season with more and more empty seats.

You obviously need to have an eye on the future, but you can’t neglect the here and now bc a guy MIGHT break out. These men are smart, they will figure it out when that happens.
- Flyers1218

Yes, that is the risk. In the end if your team makes the playoffs and is knocked out or wins a round and is knocked out then what do you have? If you have a young team then that is good experience. If you're trying to win now and made moves from that perspective, you don't have much.

Ah, the old just get in and anything can happen argument. Yea, that's true but that's not the way a team should be managed and built. The goal in my view is to give your team as a wide of an open window as you can for as long as you can. There is a way to increase your odds of having that winning season. I also disagree vehemently that there is no way of knowing that a young player is ready or not. For example, the Flyers young defense needs considerable more seasoning before they are legitimately ready to form the defense corps of a cup team. Their goaltender is 20 years old.
- MJL

So with this statement then it should be prudent to move guys like Voracek and van Riemsdyk to bring pieces more in line with your defense and goalie development.

Ah, the old just get in and anything can happen argument. Yea, that's true but that's not the way a team should be managed and built. The goal in my view is to give your team as a wide of an open window as you can for as long as you can. There is a way to increase your odds of having that winning season. I also disagree vehemently that there is no way of knowing that a young player is ready or not. For example, the Flyers young defense needs considerable more seasoning before they are legitimately ready to form the defense corps of a cup team. Their goaltender is 20 years old.
- MJL

Ahh the never ending waiting cycle, refreshing isn't it. What's G think of your grand idea? This team owes him, he's carried them for 7 years now. Go get some guys and lets get going, if young guys step up and need to be paid or look ready for a larger role, trade Jake next year. You're the same guy saying him and G will be productive in two years so he'll have value.

Who says no?

To montreal: Voracek and Gostisbehere

To philadelphia: Domi, Poehling or Mete and 15.
- J35Bacher

I don't think they're interested in moving Domi. If they were I'd be all over it tho. We really should've drafted him.

Ah, the old just get in and anything can happen argument. Yea, that's true but that's not the way a team should be managed and built. The goal in my view is to give your team as a wide of an open window as you can for as long as you can. There is a way to increase your odds of having that winning season. I also disagree vehemently that there is no way of knowing that a young player is ready or not. For example, the Flyers young defense needs considerable more seasoning before they are legitimately ready to form the defense corps of a cup team. Their goaltender is 20 years old.
- MJL

That’s your opinion. There is no technical number that says a player is ready, so to not improve your team because you are waiting for that to happen is asanine. And isn’t it ironic that the saying is still around?! Because it’s true! And this year proved it again.

And outside of being gifted Crosby and Malkin (yes they deserve credit for Murray too), the Penguins have loaded themselves and won two Cups most recently by trading and signing players and supplementing them with 3rd or 4th line players.

And yet he’s a general manager, that got hired a second time, while we sit on a website ranting and raving about how stupid he is. I’d say he is winning.
- Flyers1218

Bob Clarke hired him in Florida b/c he was Cliff Fletcher's kid. The rest is history.

Dude, Frost has to be at least 25, you don't get it!! I really don't see why this team can't make a couple additions via trade or free agency and be ready to compete next year
- ClaudeFather

I have zero problem with debating players to add. You don’t like Hayes and want Kadri instead, I’m with you. But to imply that they should stand pat again, bank on development that isn’t linear, when the parity in the league is at its highest, to me, is just flat out unacceptable. Obviously the Flyers felt that way too.

Yes, that is the risk. In the end if your team makes the playoffs and is knocked out or wins a round and is knocked out then what do you have? If you have a young team then that is good experience. If you're trying to win now and made moves from that perspective, you don't have much.
- MJL

Why? Because you acquired players and you didn’t win? Why can’t you win the next year?

So if you aren’t going to win, you don’t try to get better? Is that what this “isn’t ready” thing is? Stand pat until your young players hit this magical bench mark that instantly says they are ready? And then add?

And what happens if you don’t win then? Makes ZERO sense.

That’s your opinion. There is no technical number that says a player is ready, so to not improve your team because you are waiting for that to happen is asanine. And isn’t it ironic that the saying is still around?! Because it’s true! And this year proved it again.


- Flyers1218

You aren't making a very strong argument about if they're ready or not. You're actually not making any argument about that. Being aggressive in free agency and in making trades to try and win now is not the only way to get better. Is that the only goal, to improve the team? I want the team to reach higher. You can hang your hat on a sports cliche is you choose to.

And outside of being gifted Crosby and Malkin (yes they deserve credit for Murray too), the Penguins have loaded themselves and won two Cups most recently by trading and signing players and supplementing them with 3rd or 4th line players.
- Flyers1218

The Pens and the Flyers are in two completely stages of development as a team. They should be trying to win now.

Bob Clarke hired him in Florida b/c he was Cliff Fletcher's kid. The rest is history.
- Tomahawk

And I’m sure if he was a totally incompetent puke and an embarrassment, you’d think the Flyers organization would want to stay away from a guy they knew would be a mistake.

We may not like their moves, but again, these men aren’t stupid.

Why? Because you acquired players and you didn’t win? Why can’t you win the next year?

So if you aren’t going to win, you don’t try to get better? Is that what this “isn’t ready” thing is? Stand pat until your young players hit this magical bench mark that instantly says they are ready? And then add?

And what happens if you don’t win then? Makes ZERO sense.
- Flyers1218

You're making my argument for me. I want a team built with the window as wide open as it can be. So you can try and win next year, and the year after and on and on. The way to do that is to not make moves from the perspective of trying to win now and remaining patient. Makes smart moves if it doesn't hinder the future. How many years is Hayes going to sign for. In all likelihood when the Flyers are truly ready, he'll be a high priced role player who has been moved down the lineup. If he going to truly elevate this team?

There is no guarantee with any method. I just know what I think is the best way and gives the team the best odds long term.

Bob Clarke hired him in Florida b/c he was Cliff Fletcher's kid. The rest is history.
- Tomahawk

Now you're just sounding like the typical WIP caller and you're better than that.

You aren't making a very strong argument about if they're ready or not. You're actually not making any argument about that. Being aggressive in free agency and in making trades to try and win now is not the only way to get better. Is that the only goal, to improve the team? I want the team to reach higher. You can hang your hat on a sports cliche is you choose to.

The Pens and the Flyers are in two completely stages of development as a team. They should be trying to win now.
- MJL

That’s the point, but thank you for making it for me. No one knows exactly when a player is ready. It’s not some defined number. And to not improve your team because of that is silly.

They had two superstars, both who were injured a lot, a big time defenseman, also injured a lot, a goalie who was known for choking in the playoffs, a younger defense with guys like Maata and Schultz, and a rookie goalie. Then a whole bunch of unknown young guys that made up a pretty good AHL team down in SWB. They went for it. Paid off pretty well for them.

Who says no?

To montreal: Voracek and Gostisbehere

To philadelphia: Domi, Poehling or Mete and 15.
- J35Bacher

Who is Montreal? I’ll take lopsided trades for 400 Alex.

You're making my argument for me. I want a team built with the window as wide open as it can be. So you can try and win next year, and the year after and on and on. The way to do that is to not make moves from the perspective of trying to win now and remaining patient. Makes smart moves if it doesn't hinder the future. How many years is Hayes going to sign for. In all likelihood when the Flyers are truly ready, he'll be a high priced role player who has been moved down the lineup. If he going to truly elevate this team?

There is no guarantee with any method. I just know what I think is the best way and gives the team the best odds long term.
- MJL

Not trying to disagree with you. I understand there is no perfect way. But you also have to understand your job and pay isn't riding on what you think is best.


There have to be tangible results to justify whatever method is used. I have no doubt that if the Flyers were playing consistent hockey in the beginning of the season and looked like a team moving forward Hextall would still be here and following his path still.

You're making my argument for me. I want a team built with the window as wide open as it can be. So you can try and win next year, and the year after and on and on. The way to do that is to not make moves from the perspective of trying to win now and remaining patient. Makes smart moves if it doesn't hinder the future. How many years is Hayes going to sign for. In all likelihood when the Flyers are truly ready, he'll be a high priced role player who has been moved down the lineup. If he going to truly elevate this team?

There is no guarantee with any method. I just know what I think is the best way and gives the team the best odds long term.
- MJL

Not trying to disagree with you. I understand there is no perfect way. But you also have to understand your job and pay isn't riding on what you think is best.


There have to be tangible results to justify whatever method is used. I have no doubt that if the Flyers were playing consistent hockey in the beginning of the season and looked like a team moving forward Hextall would still be here and following his path still.

And I’m sure if he was a totally incompetent puke and an embarrassment, you’d think the Flyers organization would want to stay away from a guy they knew would be a mistake.

We may not like their moves, but again, these men aren’t stupid.
- Flyers1218

Didn't say he was stupid (obviously a Harvard lawyer isn't), only that he has a history of throwing caution to the wind and painting himself into a corner.

He's hasn't exactly pulled any rabbits out of his hat.

Guy is a poster child for NHL nepotism and how far an amenable/inoffensive demeanor can take you in that world.

That’s the point, but thank you for making it for me. No one knows exactly when a player is ready. It’s not some defined number. And to not improve your team because of that is silly.


- Flyers1218

Actually it's not silly, it's smart. By your standard, a team should never draft and develop. Always go all out to try and win now. What I have on my side is history. When the age of your players that make up your defense are in your early twenties and your starting goaltender is 20 years old, typically they're not ready to back the team to a cup. I don't know where you're getting this idea that they shouldn't improve the team. It's a question of how they should go about doing that.

Now you're just sounding like the typical WIP caller and you're better than that.
- hockeylover

No really, Clarke literally knew nothing about Chuck before he hired him, except who his dad was:

https://www.nbcsports.com...ime-mentor-chuck-fletcher

Not trying to disagree with you. I understand there is no perfect way. But you also have to understand your job and pay isn't riding on what you think is best.


There have to be tangible results to justify whatever method is used. I have no doubt that if the Flyers were playing consistent hockey in the beginning of the season and looked like a team moving forward Hextall would still be here and following his path still.
- J35Bacher

Again, how are you measuring success. What is the long term goal. If your goal is to just have a competitive team and sell tickets and put people in the stands, then yea, go ahead and get aggressive this off season in the hopes that a perfect storm might happen. If the goal is to build a team that can contend for a decade, remaining patient is the best course of action.