I don't think I am mistaken. Of course there is nuance to it and different levels of it. We're at the point where Fletcher has to make some moves rather than looking for the right moves to make. He has to find the best deal he can make rather than being able to pass and remain patient.
- MJL

Yes, of course, this is where we disagree. I think Fletcher has every opportunity to make the smart moves and have success in a timeframe shorter than what you (and I, for that matter) think Hextall planned. AKA - “middle ground”

This does not mean the Flyers will sacrifice the future or that success would be less sustainable. It is just a slightly more aggressive but ultimately similar approach to what a Hextall had. I prefer this approach personally, but really it’s a matter of taste.

The point is always to win. If we were successful already, we wouldn’t be discussing this now.

We all know they weren't willing to wait that long which is why they fired Hextall. That's a different conversation. Stating that he failed is nonsense.
- MJL

Agreed stating that he failed is nonsense just like stating he got screwed is nonsense.

The reality , like everything in life, is some place in the middle.

We all know they weren't willing to wait that long which is why they fired Hextall. That's a different conversation. Stating that he failed is nonsense.
- MJL

He was well aware he would not have a 6 year leash. He would not devise a plan that would outlast himself...He failed.

Agreed stating that he failed is nonsense just like stating he got screwed is nonsense.

The reality , like everything in life, is some place in the middle.
- opeth_pa

He prepared us for the future but failed in the present which was part of the job.

Yes, of course, this is where we disagree. I think Fletcher has every opportunity to make the smart moves and have success in a timeframe shorter than what you (and I, for that matter) think Hextall planned. AKA - “middle ground”

This does not mean the Flyers will sacrifice the future or that success would be less sustainable. It is just a slightly more aggressive but ultimately similar approach to what a Hextall had. I prefer this approach personally, but really it’s a matter of taste.

The point is always to win. If we were successful already, we wouldn’t be discussing this now.
- NC Flyers Fan

My point isn't about what Fletcher has an opportunity to do. I have no doubt that with the cap space and assets he has to work with that he can make some moves to make the team better, at least on paper right away. Again, is that the goal? It wasn't Hextall's goal. What does winning mean? Making the playoffs, winning a round? Hextall wanted to build a team that was a legit contender with a wide window giving the team multiple chances to compete for a Cup.

Agreed stating that he failed is nonsense just like stating he got screwed is nonsense.

The reality , like everything in life, is some place in the middle.
- opeth_pa

I respect your opinion and you as a poster but we're not going to agree on this.

Aren't you extremely curious of how guys like Ghost, maybe Sanheim and Myers to a lesser extent, will perform in a system like AV's? I would hang onto Ghost unless I'm bowled over by an offer. A defenseman who can score 50/60 points a year, QB'ing the PP, OT 3-on-3 threat (yes i know...) while also being on a team friendly deal and still only being 26? Thats a guy I hold onto regardless of coming off a bad year.
- sjk540

For the record, I DO like Ghost.

26 is certainly not old, but he aint a rookie anymore either. He has almost 4 full years in the NHL. Defensively, I think he is what we've seen. Which is an average-at-best defender at 5v5. He's a #4, or even a third pairing guy at 5v5. Obviously there's nothing wrong with this when he's scoring 50-60 pts & QB'ing an efficient PP that's ranked in at least the top half of the league. I truly hope I'm wrong, but I don't see him as perennial 50-60 pt guy. As far as system fit, I'm not going to pretend that I know enough about AV's x's & o's to comment.

I just think Trouba fits perfectly in our top 4 right now. Having him, Provy, Myers, & Sanhiem for the next few years is ideal to me. My willingness to deal Ghost for Trouba is rooted more in how much I think Trouba solidifies the D and overall improves the team than it is in any ill-will towards Ghost.

My point isn't about what Fletcher has an opportunity to do. I have no doubt that with the cap space and assets he has to work with that he can make some moves to make the team better, at least on paper right away. Again, is that the goal? It wasn't Hextall's goal. What does winning mean? Making the playoffs, winning a round? Hextall wanted to build a team that was a legit contender with a wide window giving the team multiple chances to compete for a Cup.
- MJL

I am only trying to point out that Fletcher’s goal is the same as this. Why is it you don’t think the same goal can be reached in a shorter window? Or do you still not think the goal remains the same?

I respect your opinion and you as a poster but we're not going to agree on this.
- MJL

I can respect that.. =)

People don't always have to agree , sometimes two parties just don't meet in the middle.

Berube took over a team with no direction (prior to the Washingtoin brawl) and led them to within 1 goal in Game 7 of the team that won the conference that year.

Hakstol was given a team that has had (in my opinion) a much better team, talent-wise, and did not have near the same success.

It might not be a high bar, but given the choice between the two, give me Berube.
- jmatchett383

Give me a break! Berube makes the Stanley Cup Final and all of a sudden its All-aboard-the-excuses-for-Berube train! Nobody was talking about how great a coach Berube was in Philadelphia a week ago, so why should we now?

It sounds like you’re saying Berube didn’t have the horses to make the playoffs in his second season as the Flyers bench boss. OK. Except Berube wanted a guy like Hartnell out of here while Hartsy was still good and that lessened the team. So who’s fault is that? Chief still had Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn and Couturier. Chief still had Mason, who at the time was still a good goalie.

My point to you is, if you’re gonna be that coach who gets half decent players kicked off your roster because you feel they’re not good enough to play on your team, you better make sure within this Evaluation that your team is still good enough to succeed without these players.

That’s a bad job on Craig Berube’s part.

Give me a break! Berube makes the Stanley Cup Final and all of a sudden its All-aboard-the-excuses-for-Berube train! Nobody was talking about how great a coach Berube was in Philadelphia a week ago, so why should we now?

It sounds like you’re saying Berube didn’t have the horses to make the playoffs to his second season as the Flyers bench boss. OK. Except Berube wanted a guy like Hartnell out of here while he Hartsy was still good and that lessened the team. So who’s fault is that? Chief still had Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn and Couturier. Chief still had Mason, who atbthe time was still a good goalie.

My point to you is, if you’re gonna be that coach who gets half decent players kicked off your roster because you feel they’re not good enough to play on your team, you better make sure within this Evaluation that your team is still good enough to succeed without these players.
- SuperSchennBros

Yes, I'm saying he didn't have the horses in 14/15 because the Flyers defense was bested only by the 06/07 Flyers defense in terms of awfulness. All due respect to Coburn and Carle, they're far from an ideal top pairing, especially at that stage of their careers.

And for the record, I was never a fan of getting rid of Berube even before knowing who his successor would be.

But yeah, he was mean to some of his players, unlike every other (frank)ing coach in NHL history.

I am only trying to point out that Fletcher’s goal is the same as this. Why is it you don’t think the same goal can be reached in a shorter window? Or do you still not think the goal remains the same?
- NC Flyers Fan

He may have the same goal but being a cap team every year is not the best way to do that. That's what we had under Holmgren. You build that by building through the draft. You can try and shortcut your way there but in my opinion that is not the best approach in the current NHL environment.

Yes, I'm saying he didn't have the horses in 14/15 because the Flyers defense was bested only by the 06/07 Flyers defense in terms of awfulness. All due respect to Coburn and Carle, they're far from an ideal top pairing, especially at that stage of their careers.

And for the record, I was never a fan of getting rid of Berube even before knowing who his successor would be.

But yeah, he was mean to some of his players, unlike every other (frank)ing coach in NHL history.
- jmatchett383

Berube didn’t want Hartnell here. So we traded Hartnell for a Moldy loaf of bread. That hurt Berube’s chances of making the playoffs, which falls on him for getting Hartnell traded.

We didn’t have Matt Carle when Berube got here. If we did, we would have been a better team.

Edit

I don’t know what to say, man. When I think of Flyers coaches that got away, I don’t think of the rookie head coach that had zero resume and got decent players kicked off his roster. I think about to ten years ago to the coach that was one of the best in franchise history, and saw Stanley Cup Finals before, during and after his time here in Peter Laviolette.

My point isn't about what Fletcher has an opportunity to do. I have no doubt that with the cap space and assets he has to work with that he can make some moves to make the team better, at least on paper right away. Again, is that the goal? It wasn't Hextall's goal. What does winning mean? Making the playoffs, winning a round? Hextall wanted to build a team that was a legit contender with a wide window giving the team multiple chances to compete for a Cup.
- MJL

Every GM wants to build a legit contender with a large window to win. So nothing groundbreaking there really. He never showed any ability to adapt or alter his unique plan. He neglected the team he was the GM of while putting more focus in other areas. He failed in that aspect. He Kept kicking the can down the road.

Give me a break! Berube makes the Stanley Cup Final and all of a sudden its All-aboard-the-excuses-for-Berube train! Nobody was talking about how great a coach Berube was in Philadelphia a week ago, so why should we now?

It sounds like you’re saying Berube didn’t have the horses to make the playoffs in his second season as the Flyers bench boss. OK. Except Berube wanted a guy like Hartnell out of here while he Hartsy was still good and that lessened the team. So who’s fault is that? Chief still had Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn and Couturier. Chief still had Mason, who at the time was still a good goalie.

My point to you is, if you’re gonna be that coach who gets half decent players kicked off your roster because you feel they’re not good enough to play on your team, you better make sure within this Evaluation that your team is still good enough to succeed without these players.

That’s a bad job on Craig Berube’s part.
- SuperSchennBros

I thought was Berube ok but I hopped off the Cheif Train with his handling of Mason

He may have the same goal but being a cap team every year is not the best way to do that. That's what we had under Holmgren. You build that by building through the draft. You can try and shortcut your way there but in my opinion that is not the best approach in the current NHL environment.
- MJL

I don’t view the salary budget of spending near the cap as saying we aren’t building through the draft. As Fletcher said, you have to build though the draft to fill out a team in the cap era, you need those ELCs. Also I don’t view using available funds and extra assets to improve the roster now as a “shortcut”; rather I see that as prudent.

I don’t view the salary budget of spending near the cap as saying we aren’t building through the draft. As Fletcher said, you have to build though the draft to fill out a team in the cap era, you need those ELCs. Also I don’t view using available funds and extra assets to improve the roster now as a “shortcut”; rather I see that as prudent.
- NC Flyers Fan

It's not prudent to be a cap team that isn't good enough and now lacks the flexibility to make changes and has to pay the cost for that. That's the danger. This lack of patience could put the team right back in the same situation it was when Hextall was first hired. This team was always going to be about how well the young players develop.

It's not prudent to be a cap team that isn't good enough and now lacks the flexibility to make changes and has to pay the cost for that. That's the danger. This lack of patience could put the team right back in the same situation it was when Hextall was first hired. This team was always going to be about how well the young players develop.
- MJL

Hextalls approach of hoping every prospect pans out Isn’t the only approach either. To sit there and wait and wait and wait will leave you waiting. He couldn’t or wouldn’t find a happy medium. He was very stubborn

Then you hear all the other stuff he did well no wonder why he was canned.

I thought was Berube ok but I hopped off the Cheif Train with his handling of Mason
- KINGKENZO

I like the Blues. I really do. I’ve been openly pulling for them since Tampa and the Leafs were knocked off. Apart of it comes from liking the look of their jerseys. Another part is loving those Al Mcinnis and Chris Pronger teams 20 years ago. I really love how they’re sticking to their game plan. With this said, I’m not ready to fall to the floor and bow to Craig Berube. The Blues haven’t been considered a Cup contender since...EVER...up until 2 days ago. I think we’re witnessing a mirage right now but we won’t know for sure until next season.

I like the Blues. I really do. I’ve been openly pulling for them since Tampa and the Leafs were knocked off. Apart of it comes from liking the look of their jerseys. Another part is loving those Al Mcinnis and Chris Pronger teams 20 years ago. I really love how they’re sticking to their game plan. With this said, I’m not ready to fall to the floor and bow to Craig Berube. The Blues haven’t been considered a Cup contender since...EVER...up until 2 days ago. I think we’re witnessing a mirage right now but we won’t know for sure until next season.
- SuperSchennBros

Even though youre not a Wings fan, I think its funny that a dude from Detroit is rooting for St Louis

It's not prudent to be a cap team that isn't good enough and now lacks the flexibility to make changes and has to pay the cost for that. That's the danger. This lack of patience could put the team right back in the same situation it was when Hextall was first hired. This team was always going to be about how well the young players develop.
- MJL

That’s why we need to exercise the 6 P’s.

Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Draft. Develop with patience. Plan. Spend. Remain flexible. Take steps forward. Persevere. Win. = Middle ground.

I like the Blues. I really do. I’ve been openly pulling for them since Tampa and the Leafs were knocked off. Apart of it comes from liking the look of their jerseys. Another part is loving those Al Mcinnis and Chris Pronger teams 20 years ago. I really love how they’re sticking to their game plan. With this said, I’m not ready to fall to the floor and bow to Craig Berube. The Blues haven’t been considered a Cup contender since...EVER...up until 2 days ago. I think we’re witnessing a mirage right now but we won’t know for sure until next season.
- SuperSchennBros

True.

That’s why we need to exercise the 6 P’s.

Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Draft. Develop with patience. Plan. Spend. Remain flexible. Take steps forward. Persevere. Win. = Middle ground.
- NC Flyers Fan

In my opinion it has to happen in steps and with the right timing. We have to see what Fletcher ultimately does but it is not the right time to go all in on an off season in my opinion.

In my opinion it has to happen in steps and with the right timing. We have to see what Fletcher ultimately does but it is not the right time to go all in on an off season in my opinion.
- MJL

By my definition, he isn’t going all-in but will improve with acquisitions. That is just the paper, we need to take steps forward. The playoffs are a must for the Phantoms and Flyers. Waiting to see.

By my definition, he isn’t going all-in but will improve with acquisitions. That is just the paper, we need to take steps forward. The playoffs are a must for the Phantoms and Flyers. Waiting to see.
- NC Flyers Fan

All in in hindsight wasn't the right term to use. We appear to have a different measuring stick for the success of the team. How do you expect him to make those acquisitions?