Murray is very polarizing. Him being the best goalie in the league in a few years, or the next Cam Ward, are still incredibly likely. While I agree with RW that players primes are around 24-25 years of age, I believe goalies are later. The market for Murray and the organizations plans for the post Crosby/Malkin era will determine the right move. It’s well documented that goalies bring comparable returns to current NFL running backs. With that being said, the organization’s historical playing style (high risk / high reward) doesn’t justify paying top dollar for goaltending. However the financial stability of the organization that exists today (that didn’t exist in the late 90s / early 2k) would suggest they will still be a cap ceiling team after 87/71 hang em up. How will our first look at a competitive Pens squad without one or two of the best players in the world look? Premier goaltending might be a nice luxury to have.

Outside of moving Malkin I can't think of a bigger mistake than moving Murray. To hope you can strike gold like the Isles did is not wise IMO.

Quality goaltending might be the hardest thing to replace.

Outside of moving Malkin I can't think of a bigger mistake than moving Murray. To hope you can strike gold like the Isles did is not wise IMO.

Quality goaltending might be the hardest thing to replace.
- Rinosaur

Outside of Crosby, Murray is the least likely to go according to anyone reporting on the team. Crosby, Murray, Guentzel, Dumoulin, McCann, and Pettersson seem most secure at present.

While this theory made a lot more sense after the last cup, I’m still not opposed to the team making sound decisions for the future. I would argue Crosby/Malkin/Letang can be just as effective 3 or 4 years from now alongside a some young prospects i.e. the next Sheary/Rust/Guentzel wave as they are with an attempted overhaul in the next 1 or 2 years that includes the Mats Zuccarellos of the NHL.

I like keeping Kessel, I like a competent, win-now trade with Kessel like one involving PK, but I’d take a peak at what type of first rounder he could bring in return for a straight up deal. There are so many win now/soon teams in the top 8 picks that it’s worth a look. A player in that range of a loaded draft could be one to help add a final cup in the last year or two of the 87/71 era and be a more solid cornerstone to bridge the gap to the next generation than the likes of Jake Guentzel (nothing against him). The cap relief in the next season or two would be nice as well.

Murray is very polarizing. Him being the best goalie in the league in a few years, or the next Cam Ward, are still incredibly likely. While I agree with RW that players primes are around 24-25 years of age, I believe goalies are later. The market for Murray and the organizations plans for the post Crosby/Malkin era will determine the right move. It’s well documented that goalies bring comparable returns to current NFL running backs. With that being said, the organization’s historical playing style (high risk / high reward) doesn’t justify paying top dollar for goaltending. However the financial stability of the organization that exists today (that didn’t exist in the late 90s / early 2k) would suggest they will still be a cap ceiling team after 87/71 hang em up. How will our first look at a competitive Pens squad without one or two of the best players in the world look? Premier goaltending might be a nice luxury to have.
- Le_Magnifique

Eh, I don't think either of those two scenarios are very likely. I don't think Murr will ever be the best goalie in the league, and I also think he has a big enough sample size to suggest he'll be a consistently above-average on the cusp of elite goaltender during his prime if healthy. It's a question of injuries and whether or not he can stay on the ice.

Eh, I don't think either of those two scenarios are very likely. I don't think Murr will ever be the best goalie in the league, and I also think he has a big enough sample size to suggest he'll be a consistently above-average on the cusp of elite goaltender during his prime if healthy. It's a question of injuries and whether or not he can stay on the ice.
- Victoro311

I think at the moment the G is the least of their concerns.

Freeing up cap, getting younger and faster is the priority.

Kessel is done.

Im not in love with the idea of trading for a 30 yr old Dman making 9mil for the next 3 years either.

https://www.capfriendly.c.../armchair-gm/edit/1176137

Just gave a fun whack at it. Decided to buyout Jack Johnson. The extra spot on offense and defense would be determined by training camp.

Murray is very polarizing. Him being the best goalie in the league in a few years, or the next Cam Ward, are still incredibly likely. While I agree with RW that players primes are around 24-25 years of age, I believe goalies are later. The market for Murray and the organizations plans for the post Crosby/Malkin era will determine the right move. It’s well documented that goalies bring comparable returns to current NFL running backs. With that being said, the organization’s historical playing style (high risk / high reward) doesn’t justify paying top dollar for goaltending. However the financial stability of the organization that exists today (that didn’t exist in the late 90s / early 2k) would suggest they will still be a cap ceiling team after 87/71 hang em up. How will our first look at a competitive Pens squad without one or two of the best players in the world look? Premier goaltending might be a nice luxury to have.
- Le_Magnifique

While I agree with your assessment on Murray, he is a known commodity on a good contract this year so they aren't going to consider moving him. When his contract is up, if he is looking for an absurd contract you can move on from him.

The Pens are definitely going to shake things up with some trades. I think it will be something completely off the radar that happens though.

Kessel and Maata are gone. My hope is that JJ can get buried in a kessel trade.

Schultz is going to be a very valuable commodity. I really like him but think it's unlikely they sign him to an extension so I would look at getting value rather than losing him for nothing.

Also worth saying, Gudbranson has much more value than everyone thinks. He isn't going to return a fortune but he is more than just a cap dump.

The Pens are definitely going to shake things up with some trades. I think it will be something completely off the radar that happens though.

Kessel and Maata are gone. My hope is that JJ can get buried in a kessel trade.

Schultz is going to be a very valuable commodity. I really like him but think it's unlikely they sign him to an extension so I would look at getting value rather than losing him for nothing.

Also worth saying, Gudbranson has much more value than everyone thinks. He isn't going to return a fortune but he is more than just a cap dump.
- MacPatty

I think it was Yohe who said if Schultz wants to sign at a similar cap hit they'd do it. He didn't have a great year even when healthy, so unless they do the Subban trade I can see this happening. Gardiner is being estimated at 6M and he has similar value I believe. Nobody looks like they'll be in line for a too 4RD role in a year so I think this gets done barring another move.

Gudbranson still has a lot of baggage and a higher cap hit then he deserves even if he continues to play as he did. I'm optimistic on him though. Was surprised he wasn't just slapping the puck off walls. I think a 5D that kills penalties and clears the net is his ceiling though.

I think it was Yohe who said if Schultz wants to sign at a similar cap hit they'd do it. He didn't have a great year even when healthy, so unless they do the Subban trade I can see this happening. Gardiner is being estimated at 6M and he has similar value I believe. Nobody looks like they'll be in line for a too 4RD role in a year so I think this gets done barring another move.

- Tojo.

I think term will matter as much for Schultz as AAV. I'd be good with a 3-4 year deal around the same salary but he might get a 5-6 year offer from a club with some cap space and a need for a PP QB. I wouldn't want to go too long with him.

I think term will matter as much for Schultz as AAV. I'd be good with a 3-4 year deal around the same salary but he might get a 5-6 year offer from a club with some cap space and a need for a PP QB. I wouldn't want to go too long with him.
- MacPatty

Hes 28, he will be looking at a 6x6 deal. Someone will do it too.

Hes 28, he will be looking at a 6x6 deal. Someone will do it too.
- sammy87

I agree, just don't think it will be the Pens. Schultz as a rental is definitely worth a first and a good prospect.

If you could do that and replace him with Strallman in free agency you would get some really good assets, save some cap space but take a decent step back in talent on the RD.

Think you'd have to move Maata and/or JJ and find a really good LD for the 2nd pair. Not sure it would all come together or make sense at the end of the day.

I agree, just don't think it will be the Pens. Schultz as a rental is definitely worth a first and a good prospect.

If you could do that and replace him with Strallman in free agency you would get some really good assets, save some cap space but take a decent step back in talent on the RD.

Think you'd have to move Maata and/or JJ and find a really good LD for the 2nd pair. Not sure it would all come together or make sense at the end of the day.
- MacPatty

Yeah unless the Pens can unload a lot of fat theres no way and Im not sure he's even worth that.

I still think Kessel, Maata and someone else will be gone. Pens roster just sucks and its been proven that the good players can't carry the rest of the team any more.

Hes 28, he will be looking at a 6x6 deal. Someone will do it too.
- sammy87

What exactly do you think you’ll get for less than that to replace him?

I just love when people think, “I’m not paying him that. He can leave. We’ll just get someone else.”

These replacements aren’t just sitting in a box waiting for the Pens to select them and at a much better price no less.

If Schultz wants $6M and there is absolutely a way to replace him with a better or more comparable player for a better cap hit, then do it, otherwise you’re going to be hard-presses to find a better dman at this point at his price.

If we were to ship out players like rust, kessel, Maatta to free up cap space would we go after anyone via free agency.. karlsson, Duchene, panarin??. Still own a 1st round pick do we decide to ship that out in a package deal or actually draft a player lol..

I just love when people think, “I’m not paying him that. He can leave. We’ll just get someone else.”

These replacements aren’t just sitting in a box waiting for the Pens to select them and at a much better price no less.

If Schultz wants $6M and there is absolutely a way to replace him with a better or more comparable player for a better cap hit, then do it, otherwise you’re going to be hard-presses to find a better dman at this point at his price.
- Rinosaur

Agree, puck moving RHD are hard to find.

And who cares about years 5 and 6? Schultz is young enough he might not be declining by then, but the core stars certainly will.

Agree, puck moving RHD are hard to find.

And who cares about years 5 and 6? Schultz is young enough he might not be declining by then, but the core stars certainly will.
- Tojo.

Schultz at that price is as good as you can realistically hope for. Yeah, he had a mediocre season, but sometimes coming back from an injury takes time.

I just love when people think, “I’m not paying him that. He can leave. We’ll just get someone else.”

These replacements aren’t just sitting in a box waiting for the Pens to select them and at a much better price no less.

If Schultz wants $6M and there is absolutely a way to replace him with a better or more comparable player for a better cap hit, then do it, otherwise you’re going to be hard-presses to find a better dman at this point at his price.
- Rinosaur

Do you also love thinking that the salary cap doesn't exist and teams don't think about the future?

Schultz at that price is as good as you can realistically hope for. Yeah, he had a mediocre season, but sometimes coming back from an injury takes time.
- Rinosaur

I think Schultz has a lot to prove this year. I really like having him but realistically speaking he has had two good years with the Pens.

I really like having him but if we are being objective, he is only good for 20 minutes per game and his last 4 years he has played 63, 78, 63 and 29 games.

The Pens will think long and hard about that. He is a luxury for the Pens and teams in need of a PP QB will be more willing to offer him that long term contract.

Do you also love thinking that the salary cap doesn't exist and teams don't think about the future?
- MacPatty

It’s absolutely important. What does one thing have to do with the other? Pens have to resign Murray, so OBVIOUSLY Schultz is the one we have to cut, not players who are overpaid and causing more issues.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1174721

I feel I took a slightly more realistic approach to the situation.
- Rinosaur

Realistic as in not actually a 23 man roster?

I think Schultz has a lot to prove this year. I really like having him but realistically speaking he has had two good years with the Pens.

I really like having him but if we are being objective, he is only good for 20 minutes per game and his last 4 years he has played 63, 78, 63 and 29 games.

The Pens will think long and hard about that. He is a luxury for the Pens and teams in need of a PP QB will be more willing to offer him that long term contract.
- MacPatty

A Luxury? What do you think good 2nd pairing offensive dman costs? Some teams are lucky to have a legit one still on an ELC, but for those who aren’t, you’re spending in the $5mish realm.

A Luxury? What do you think good 2nd pairing offensive dman costs? Some teams are lucky to have a legit one still on an ELC, but for those who aren’t, you’re spending in the $5mish realm.
- Rinosaur

It's a luxury in terms of he is more of a specialist. Very good offensively and not great in his own zone. Can't eat a ton of minutes and gets very favorable zone starts. As I said, I'm fine at his current salary for another 3 years, just preferably not longer than that.

There are teams where it would make sense giving him a 6/$36 deal but I don't think the Pens are one of them.