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Forums :: Vancouver Canucks :: HB Thinktank - Socialism vs. Capitalism: a false dichotomy
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Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Linden4Ever, BC
Joined: 07.01.2007

Nov 23 @ 11:47 AM ET
It’s a whiners world now. Never in the history of the world have we had it so good yet people can’t stop whining. It’s nauseating. As a whole, humans have never been wealthier then they are now, more educated, healthier and longer lived, and generally more happier than ever before.
- bloatedmosquito

The media would have us all believe there's a mass amount of people doing the woke thing and all the complaining, when in fact, it's a small minority of the the global population. Chaos sells. Canada is becoming an embarrassment with Trudeau and his clown-show in charge. Canadians are reaching their breaking point. People are going to elect Poolie if Trudeau doesn't step down. Which he won't. The taxation by the Liberals in Canada, a relatively small population of 40 million, is getting absurd.
bloatedmosquito
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I’m a dose of reality in this cesspool of glee
Joined: 10.22.2011

Nov 23 @ 12:57 PM ET
The media would have us all believe there's a mass amount of people doing the woke thing and all the complaining, when in fact, it's a small minority of the the global population. Chaos sells. Canada is becoming an embarrassment with Trudeau and his clown-show in charge. Canadians are reaching their breaking point. People are going to elect Poolie if Trudeau doesn't step down. Which he won't. The taxation by the Liberals in Canada, a relatively small population of 40 million, is getting absurd.
- Pacificgem


Hmmm... let's take a look at the tax structure in Canada

https://www.oecd.org/tax/...nue-statistics-canada.pdf

In a nutshell, Canada takes substantially higher revenues from taxes on personal income, profits & gains, and higher revenues from taxes on corporate income & gains; payroll taxes; and property taxes than other western countries but overall (as presented by OECD) the tax structure in Canada is better than that of the US. But rich people in Canada complain a lot because their personal income is taxed so heavily where in the US, rich people are protected and have an unfair advantage over low income people.

Trudeau and the liberals have not created more tax, they are just spending more than they should on (IMO) stupid social stuff. Justin's just an unlikable person and comes across like a virtue signaling wimp.
Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Linden4Ever, BC
Joined: 07.01.2007

Nov 23 @ 1:12 PM ET
Hmmm... let's take a look at the tax structure in Canada

https://www.oecd.org/tax/...nue-statistics-canada.pdf

In a nutshell, Canada takes substantially higher revenues from taxes on personal income, profits & gains, and higher revenues from taxes on corporate income & gains; payroll taxes; and property taxes than other western countries but overall (as presented by OECD) the tax structure in Canada is better than that of the US. But rich people in Canada complain a lot because their personal income is taxed so heavily where in the US, rich people are protected and have an unfair advantage over low income people.

Trudeau and the liberals have not created more tax, they are just spending more than they should on (IMO) stupid social stuff. Justin's just an unlikable person and comes across like a virtue signaling wimp.

- bloatedmosquito

Personally, there’s two reasons I choose to live in the US, better weather and personal income taxes. The general cost of living is much less down here as well, when you don’t consider exchange rate. For a person with American money or earning American money it’s definitely cheaper. My perspective is much different than some American peasant earning 60-80 thousand a year though.
bloatedmosquito
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I’m a dose of reality in this cesspool of glee
Joined: 10.22.2011

Nov 23 @ 1:52 PM ET
Personally, there’s two reasons I choose to live in the US, better weather and personal income taxes. The general cost of living is much less down here as well, when you don’t consider exchange rate. For a person with American money or earning American money it’s definitely cheaper. My perspective is much different than some American peasant earning 60-80 thousand a year though.
- Pacificgem


Unless you are unhealthy which most Americans are, especially low income earners. Let's say you or your wife gets sick, will you came back to Canada? You had mentioned previously that your wife was having some issues obtaining insurance but I think that sorted itself out. But healthcare has always been an issue for Americans. As you age it ain't going to get easier or cheaper.
Makita
Referee
Vancouver Canucks
Location: #theonlyrealfan, BC
Joined: 02.16.2007

Nov 23 @ 2:02 PM ET
The media would have us all believe there's a mass amount of people doing the woke thing and all the complaining, when in fact, it's a small minority of the the global population. Chaos sells. Canada is becoming an embarrassment with Trudeau and his clown-show in charge. Canadians are reaching their breaking point. People are going to elect Poolie if Trudeau doesn't step down. Which he won't. The taxation by the Liberals in Canada, a relatively small population of 40 million, is getting absurd.
- Pacificgem

Personally I am surprised that any parties leaders place their own arrogance and ego above that of their party. Trudeau, Biden, should both step aside for the betterment of their party. Both do not have the confidence of the voters, but both think they are instrumental in having their parties reelected which will be their downfall. Their caucuses should be pushing for change non stop, and forcing both to step aside for the party.
As for Canada being an embarrassment, is quite a bit of hyperbole made up by individuals like yourself, interesting to see America now claiming and investigating India for a failed assassination, guess Biden and his clown show must also be an embarrassment. Trudeau really needs to go, but no need to go Trumpian in your opinion of Trudeau.
Makita
Referee
Vancouver Canucks
Location: #theonlyrealfan, BC
Joined: 02.16.2007

Nov 23 @ 2:09 PM ET
Unless you are unhealthy which most Americans are, especially low income earners. Let's say you or your wife gets sick, will you came back to Canada? You had mentioned previously that your wife was having some issues obtaining insurance but I think that sorted itself out. But healthcare has always been an issue for Americans. As you age it ain't going to get easier or cheaper.
- bloatedmosquito


I like Lefty and think he gets an unfair amount of grief from a few, but he has also presented himself to be wealthy and he is above the vast majority of Americans that are living day to day and frankly he does not see the how US policies effect people that live day to day and can't afford food and shelter let alone health care.

bloatedmosquito
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I’m a dose of reality in this cesspool of glee
Joined: 10.22.2011

Nov 23 @ 2:16 PM ET
I like Lefty and think he gets an unfair amount of grief from a few, but he has also presented himself to be wealthy and he is above the vast majority of Americans that are living day to day and frankly he does not see the how US policies effect people that live day to day and can't afford food and shelter let alone health care.
- Makita


I agree that the US is awesome for the rich. Not so great for the other 99%. But the Americans are like that. They loath to pay a bit extra for the greater good of their society.

Look at the mass killing epidemic. Only country in the world that suffers from these actions yet ZERO adjustments made to even address it other than "prayers", ZERO. Unbelievable.
Marwood
Location: Cumberland, BC
Joined: 03.18.2010

Nov 23 @ 2:19 PM ET
Hmmm... let's take a look at the tax structure in Canada

https://www.oecd.org/tax/...nue-statistics-canada.pdf

In a nutshell, Canada takes substantially higher revenues from taxes on personal income, profits & gains, and higher revenues from taxes on corporate income & gains; payroll taxes; and property taxes than other western countries but overall (as presented by OECD) the tax structure in Canada is better than that of the US. But rich people in Canada complain a lot because their personal income is taxed so heavily where in the US, rich people are protected and have an unfair advantage over low income people.

Trudeau and the liberals have not created more tax, they are just spending more than they should on (IMO) stupid social stuff. Justin's just an unlikable person and comes across like a virtue signaling wimp.

- bloatedmosquito

Interesting about the taxes. Rich people everywhere whine about taxes and hate the sick & poor. Look at how much Lefty despises me.
Trudeau is a creepy yoga instructor who thinks he's some kind of freestyle street poet. The sooner he's gone the better.
Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Linden4Ever, BC
Joined: 07.01.2007

Nov 23 @ 2:46 PM ET
Unless you are unhealthy which most Americans are, especially low income earners. Let's say you or your wife gets sick, will you came back to Canada? You had mentioned previously that your wife was having some issues obtaining insurance but I think that sorted itself out. But healthcare has always been an issue for Americans. As you age it ain't going to get easier or cheaper.
- bloatedmosquito

I think the whole healthcare thing is completely overplayed, as you're trying to portray it here. Most Americans are not unhealthy, unless you believe everything you see on tv, which apparently you do by that comment.

I've lived here full time for awhile now, most guys/people I know or come across have some form of healthcare. Either through healthcare.gov or privately. But not like you would think of it. It's a for-profit business, most pay for some type of major health crisis but going to the doctor is a $40 cost a few times a year. It's nothing.

You do see a lot of older American women still working though, monthly healthcare cost is a part of that I would suggest.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
― Margaret Thatcher
Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Linden4Ever, BC
Joined: 07.01.2007

Nov 23 @ 2:52 PM ET
Personally I am surprised that any parties leaders place their own arrogance and ego above that of their party. Trudeau, Biden, should both step aside for the betterment of their party. Both do not have the confidence of the voters, but both think they are instrumental in having their parties reelected which will be their downfall. Their caucuses should be pushing for change non stop, and forcing both to step aside for the party.
As for Canada being an embarrassment, is quite a bit of hyperbole made up by individuals like yourself, interesting to see America now claiming and investigating India for a failed assassination, guess Biden and his clown show must also be an embarrassment. Trudeau really needs to go, but no need to go Trumpian in your opinion of Trudeau.

- Makita

It's a common theme anywhere in the world, government arrogance, they always come in with good intentions for the people but something changes them and they become self-serving. Human nature I guess.

When I comment on Canada I'm not saying they're the only country in the world becoming an embarrassment, there's a long list forming with all the BS going on around the world. As I mentioned, people are voting in far right-wing politicians as they're getting sick and tired of liberalism....they've had enough!!

American politics is an embarrassment, as you know, Biden's cognitive impermeant is real, but the GOP I think is tiring of the whole Trump gong-show, although the media won't let him die.
Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Linden4Ever, BC
Joined: 07.01.2007

Nov 23 @ 3:04 PM ET
I like Lefty and think he gets an unfair amount of grief from a few, but he has also presented himself to be wealthy and he is above the vast majority of Americans that are living day to day and frankly he does not see the how US policies effect people that live day to day and can't afford food and shelter let alone health care.
- Makita

I'm not wealthy, that's just for entertainment purposes. I drive a Tundra SR5 and have a C7 Z06 for a sports car, if I were rich I'd have a Lambo lol. Do we have money, yes, but if you and I sold everything we own, property, everything, you and I would most likely have the same amount of money and your lucrative government pension is worth millions. I don't have that, I took my 20 year company pension and invested it but I also had to build my own pension through saving and investing.

In the United States 2 or 3 million USD goes a long ways when you can buy an absolutely beautiful house for 700K USD. Housing is cheaper, vehicles are cheaper, food is cheaper, fuel is cheaper, entertainment is cheaper, personal income taxes are cheaper, it just costs less to live here, even for people you see complaining on the internet that life is unaffordable....as they hold a $1500 cell phone in their hand with a $500 watch on their wrist and a $7 coffee in their other hand.

Generally, a diversified investment portfolio that includes a mix of stocks, bonds, and other income-generating assets can yield an average annual return of around 4% to 6%. Based on this, a 2 million dollar investment portfolio could potentially generate an annual income of $80,000 to $120,000. When you don't have any bills that's more than enough to live on, more than enough!!
Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Linden4Ever, BC
Joined: 07.01.2007

Nov 23 @ 3:06 PM ET
Interesting about the taxes. Rich people everywhere whine about taxes and hate the sick & poor. Look at how much Lefty despises me.
Trudeau is a creepy yoga instructor who thinks he's some kind of freestyle street poet. The sooner he's gone the better.

- Marwood

That's completely false, I don't despise you, I just find a soft spot with you and give you back the grief you give me. You are a drain on society though, you frickin marshmallow.
bloatedmosquito
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I’m a dose of reality in this cesspool of glee
Joined: 10.22.2011

Nov 23 @ 4:02 PM ET
I think the whole healthcare thing is completely overplayed, as you're trying to portray it here. Most Americans are not unhealthy, unless you believe everything you see on tv, which apparently you do by that comment.

I've lived here full time for awhile now, most guys/people I know or come across have some form of healthcare. Either through healthcare.gov or privately. But not like you would think of it. It's a for-profit business, most pay for some type of major health crisis but going to the doctor is a $40 cost a few times a year. It's nothing.

You do see a lot of older American women still working though, monthly healthcare cost is a part of that I would suggest.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
― Margaret Thatcher

- Pacificgem


Fair enough, but let's be honest... you don't seem like the type to rub elbows with the "common people". most people who live in gated communities generally don't.

Let's look at a Forbes article published this year. I like using Forbes because it's a right-wing publication but usually is honest in their coverage. Stops the conspiracy types from complaining.

https://www.forbes.com/ad...nd-facts/#sources_section

As you stated, most Americans have coverage (over 90%) but over 40% of those people have significant health care dept. How many Canadians have health care debt? Just under 14%. That's a big difference.

So Canadians pay more individual income tax, but the benefit to society overall is justifiable in my opinion. By Canadian standards I'm well off. But I don't see a problem with paying more money into a system that benefits society as a whole, especially education and health care because I can afford it. But as a self-proclaimed conservative, that's where my generosity ends.
Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Linden4Ever, BC
Joined: 07.01.2007

Nov 23 @ 4:27 PM ET
Fair enough, but let's be honest... you don't seem like the type to rub elbows with the "common people". most people who live in gated communities generally don't.

Let's look at a Forbes article published this year. I like using Forbes because it's a right-wing publication but usually is honest in their coverage. Stops the conspiracy types from complaining.

https://www.forbes.com/ad...nd-facts/#sources_section

As you stated, most Americans have coverage (over 90%) but over 40% of those people have significant health care dept. How many Canadians have health care debt? Just under 14%. That's a big difference.

So Canadians pay more individual income tax, but the benefit to society overall is justifiable in my opinion. By Canadian standards I'm well off. But I don't see a problem with paying more money into a system that benefits society as a whole, especially education and health care because I can afford it. But as a self-proclaimed conservative, that's where my generosity ends.

- bloatedmosquito


Again, that's a complete falsehood. I didn't grow up with money, I'm just a common blue collar worker like yourself with a bachelors degree in engineering. I worked hard and our family made sacrifices, but at the end of the day I'm not an elitist, I just like to bug Marwood because it annoys him and our tax dollars pay for his crap LOL. I like playing golf and hockey here in AZ, the guys I play golf and hockey with are just like me, mortgage broker, HVAC technician, school teacher, parts guy at Toyota dealer, realtor, dentist, internet security, head-hunter, plus, my wife owns a restaurant, it's not a high-end fancy place. The people who come in are just regular people, the kids that work for her, and their families/moms, know my wife and talk a bunch with her, they're just regular people like us.

Yes we live in a gated community, and most of the people in there have money, some of them are very wealthy, there's a Canadian guy in there who owned a tech company, he recently sold his place in Hawaii for 16 million dollars, he bought it for 8 million a few years ago....just crazy. But we don't live in there 100% of our time....clearly.

Canadians may not have healthcare debt, but the mounting mortgage and consumer debt is just as worrisome. If the rates don't come down, 2025 and 2026 there's going to be a lot of defaults on mortgages. When you have to pay 600K for a house in Saskatoon Saskatchewan there's a housing cost crisis in Canada. You can buy a good house in the US for 250K to 350K outside of the major cities. Less in smaller towns. So pick your poison, there's a bunch of it out there in both countries.

"Canadian consumer debt hit an all-time high of $2.32 trillion in the first quarter of 2023"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/b...sehold-debt-gdp-1.6852027
Marwood
Location: Cumberland, BC
Joined: 03.18.2010

Nov 23 @ 4:46 PM ET
That's completely false, I don't despise you, I just find a soft spot with you and give you back the grief you give me. You are a drain on society though, you frickin marshmallow.
- Pacificgem


I knew that would get you.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011

Nov 24 @ 1:13 AM ET
I'm not wealthy, that's just for entertainment purposes. I drive a Tundra SR5 and have a C7 Z06 for a sports car, if I were rich I'd have a Lambo lol. Do we have money, yes, but if you and I sold everything we own, property, everything, you and I would most likely have the same amount of money and your lucrative government pension is worth millions. I don't have that, I took my 20 year company pension and invested it but I also had to build my own pension through saving and investing.

In the United States 2 or 3 million USD goes a long ways when you can buy an absolutely beautiful house for 700K USD. Housing is cheaper, vehicles are cheaper, food is cheaper, fuel is cheaper, entertainment is cheaper, personal income taxes are cheaper, it just costs less to live here, even for people you see complaining on the internet that life is unaffordable....as they hold a $1500 cell phone in their hand with a $500 watch on their wrist and a $7 coffee in their other hand.

Generally, a diversified investment portfolio that includes a mix of stocks, bonds, and other income-generating assets can yield an average annual return of around 4% to 6%. Based on this, a 2 million dollar investment portfolio could potentially generate an annual income of $80,000 to $120,000. When you don't have any bills that's more than enough to live on, more than enough!!

- Pacificgem


Actually my watch is worth $1300 but yeah who cares. I also make a $7 coffee at home for $1 and it's like that with most of my meals and beverages. I spend $60 and have a beautiful dinner at home for 4.

I drive a new vehicle but it's plug in hybrid and despite driving it over 500km a week it costs around $20 a week for fuel and another $60 a month for electricity. Yes, prices are high but there are still deals to be found if you shop around a little.

Our mortgage and utilities are far less than rent would be, we don't dine out much and aside from the teenager don't need(want) designer clothing. I find we can afford anything within reason including nice vacations and save for retirement.
NewYorkNuck
Vancouver Canucks
Location: New York, NY
Joined: 07.11.2015

Nov 24 @ 2:19 AM ET
I think the whole healthcare thing is completely overplayed, as you're trying to portray it here. Most Americans are not unhealthy, unless you believe everything you see on tv, which apparently you do by that comment.

I've lived here full time for awhile now, most guys/people I know or come across have some form of healthcare. Either through healthcare.gov or privately. But not like you would think of it. It's a for-profit business, most pay for some type of major health crisis but going to the doctor is a $40 cost a few times a year. It's nothing.

You do see a lot of older American women still working though, monthly healthcare cost is a part of that I would suggest.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
― Margaret Thatcher

- Pacificgem


Disagree. I think it's sensationalized, for sure (what isn't these days), but after living there for 7 years (assuming it's longer than you've lived there?), I would say healthcare and the healthcare system is a massive issue for people.

Like you've mentioned, you are well-off (at least more well-off than the majority of Americans) and the people you interact with are well-off. You're down there on a visa? That already puts you on a certain level/ability/financial reality above others.

I live in Germany now. I pay for private insurance (mainly because I messed up my application when applying for my visa). It's about 225 Euro a month: no copay, no deductible, no in- versus out-of-network, get to claim most of it back on taxes... plus just the ease of it: the mental anguish of dealing with the US medical system is a nightmare.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011

Nov 24 @ 2:58 AM ET
I'm quite fine with paying higher taxes in Canada to help each other out. I'm supportive of dentacare, medicare, anything to help the next generation.

What frustrates me is paying high taxes to help people that don't want to put any effort in to help themselves.

It's telling that the food bank can't give pomegranates away while much of the general public can't afford them. Our local food bank watched much of their garden spoil because it's too much work to deal with fresh produce.

That's revolting as a taxpayer that finds fresh produce among the most unaffordable staples for our family.
Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Linden4Ever, BC
Joined: 07.01.2007

Nov 24 @ 11:03 AM ET
Disagree. I think it's sensationalized, for sure (what isn't these days), but after living there for 7 years (assuming it's longer than you've lived there?), I would say healthcare and the healthcare system is a massive issue for people.

Like you've mentioned, you are well-off (at least more well-off than the majority of Americans) and the people you interact with are well-off. You're down there on a visa? That already puts you on a certain level/ability/financial reality above others.

I live in Germany now. I pay for private insurance (mainly because I messed up my application when applying for my visa). It's about 225 Euro a month: no copay, no deductible, no in- versus out-of-network, get to claim most of it back on taxes... plus just the ease of it: the mental anguish of dealing with the US medical system is a nightmare.

- NewYorkNuck

Yes...you lived there full-time twice as long as we have, that being said, I think I've talked to enough people as I worked in Ohio, Texas, California (Bakersfield), Louisiana and New Mexico, to form a fairly good opinion that for the majority of the population it's not as big an issue as it's played up to be.

Personally, I found it to be way better than Canada, at least in recent years, but I've only had to use it once for emergency treatment, I had to go to emergency when I took a puck to the mouth, 28 stitches and a lost front tooth. At that time we only had critical care insurance, which covered the whole thing, including my dental bill. Now we have proper insurance with deductibles ($2500) and co-pays ($30) and everything you described, but we never use it, like most of the people we know, because we're generally healthy.

As I said above in a post, the average everyday people we know and talk to, our friends, employees/families and co-workers, don't have an issue with it. They'd love "free" healthcare but they also want nothing to do with paying the kind of personal income tax that Canadians pay to get it. Can't have it both ways. But I know it can be a nightmare for those that rely on it if they're unhealthy and need constant care.

The same could be said for Canada, you're hearing more and more stories of people unable to get treatment in Canada, hell, my doctor moved away in Victoria and for ten years I had to go to a walk-in clinic or emergency to get anything, it was ridiculous!! A friend of mine in Victoria had a mild stroke this year, he lost feeling in his face, went to Vic General and had to sit in the waiting room for 8 hours before they would see him. That's unacceptable. There's issues on both sides of the border, one is money or cost, the other is actual service. More and more we're hearing friends in Victoria going south of the border to get service as they can no longer wait in Canada for treatment.
Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Linden4Ever, BC
Joined: 07.01.2007

Nov 24 @ 11:19 AM ET
I'm quite fine with paying higher taxes in Canada to help each other out. I'm supportive of dentacare, medicare, anything to help the next generation.

What frustrates me is paying high taxes to help people that don't want to put any effort in to help themselves.

It's telling that the food bank can't give pomegranates away while much of the general public can't afford them. Our local food bank watched much of their garden spoil because it's too much work to deal with fresh produce.

That's revolting as a taxpayer that finds fresh produce among the most unaffordable staples for our family.

- golfingsince

You're such a sheep...LOL

I would agree with you if those tax dollars actually were put to good use. IMO they aren't these days. Generally speaking. Eight years under Trudeau and Canadians have never been more in debt than they currently are. Country and consumer debt have never been higher.

The provinces are responsible for healthcare, the federal government only kicks in around 20% to each province. But it's up to each province to administer and provide healthcare services to it's residents. Now, if we could flip the contributions around and pay as much federal tax into our provincial tax and as much provincial tax into our federal tax, I'd be on board with that.

One year I paid 100K into the Canadian tax system, that's when the light switch came on, enough of this crap. I am not getting any more for my tax dollars than the guy paying 15K in taxes on his T4. I'm traveling all over the world working, spending time away from my family, while he or she stays home and has as much access to any government funded program or infrastructure as I do. The amount of money I made is irrelevant, I'm specifically speaking to tax contributions and what each individual receives for that money. I had the ability to have my cake and eat it too, so I did.

Most high income earners want to give as little as possible to everyone else.....leeches
NewYorkNuck
Vancouver Canucks
Location: New York, NY
Joined: 07.11.2015

Nov 24 @ 11:55 AM ET
Yes...you lived there full-time twice as long as we have, that being said, I think I've talked to enough people as I worked in Ohio, Texas, California (Bakersfield), Louisiana and New Mexico, to form a fairly good opinion that for the majority of the population it's not as big an issue as it's played up to be.

Personally, I found it to be way better than Canada, at least in recent years, but I've only had to use it once for emergency treatment, I had to go to emergency when I took a puck to the mouth, 28 stitches and a lost front tooth. At that time we only had critical care insurance, which covered the whole thing, including my dental bill. Now we have proper insurance with deductibles ($2500) and co-pays ($40) and everything you described, but we never use it, like most of the people we know, because we're generally healthy.

As I said above in a post, the average everyday people we know and talk to, our friends, employees/families and co-workers, don't have an issue with it. They'd love "free" healthcare but they also want nothing to do with paying the kind of personal income tax that Canadians pay to get it. Can't have it both ways. But I know it can be a nightmare for those that rely on it if they're unhealthy and need constant care.

The same could be said for Canada, you're hearing more and more stories of people unable to get treatment in Canada, hell, my doctor moved away in Victoria and for ten years I had to go to a walk-in clinic or emergency to get anything, it was ridiculous!! A friend of mine in Victoria had a mild stroke this year, he lost feeling in his face, went to Vic General and had to sit in the waiting room for 8 hours before they would see him. That's unacceptable. There's issues on both sides of the border, one is money or cost, the other is actual service. More and more we're hearing friends in Victoria going south of the border to get service as they can no longer wait in Canada for treatment.

- Pacificgem


So basically if you don't need the healthcare system, it's a good system? Lol. Half joking, but the idea is there.

Most of the time, for most people, doing general things.. ya, you pay your co-payment and go. It's not a massive issue. And I'm not talking about the level of care, that's clearly really good.

But the problem is when you actually need to use use the system or have an emergency, it's terrible (especially if you're uninsured). Something like 61% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, and 8% don't have insurance. A small medical emergency would cripple them. A for-profit system that you have to pay for and then pay to use is pretty (frank)ed, with their jacked up costs... especially when for most people it's tied to their job. That creates another can of worms.

I can't speak to Canada as I haven't lived there for 10 years now.
penguininnevada
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater
Joined: 09.01.2008

Nov 24 @ 12:01 PM ET
Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Linden4Ever, BC
Joined: 07.01.2007

Nov 24 @ 12:37 PM ET
So basically if you don't need the healthcare system, it's a good system? Lol. Half joking, but the idea is there.

Most of the time, for most people, doing general things.. ya, you pay your co-payment and go. It's not a massive issue. And I'm not talking about the level of care, that's clearly really good.

But the problem is when you actually need to use use the system or have an emergency, it's terrible (especially if you're uninsured). Something like 61% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, and 8% don't have insurance. A small medical emergency would cripple them. A for-profit system that you have to pay for and then pay to use is pretty (frank)ed, with their jacked up costs... especially when for most people it's tied to their job. That creates another can of worms.

I can't speak to Canada as I haven't lived there for 10 years now.

- NewYorkNuck

Even if you need the healthcare system, for general use, in the US, it's fine for 300 million Americans, is what I'm saying. What I said, or meant to say, is if you need critical care on a yearly basis you could run into issues without the proper insurance. This is a minority of the people who need this type of care.

In the US you have a choice, to buy insurance or not, and, to buy what type of insurance you want. Most professional employers provide insurance to their employees. If those decisions trip you up, then that's on you, which you see a lot of. Which Canadians don't seem to understand. Every year people register with "heathcare.gov" here and get subsidized with their healthcare, there's no excuses to not have some sort of coverage, private or government. People, middle income people, still choose to not have it and hedge their bets. Those are the people who get tripped up. The dirt poor people get service and the government pays for it.

As I've stated several times, from living here and talking to every day Americans, I don't find it to be an issue like it's made out to be in Canada. There's a lot of falsehoods portrayed in Canada about the American system. Personally I find it way better because I have insurance and I have extremely better access to service. I was having back issues so the doctor gave me a slip for an MRI, I went to the office and had it done a week later for $170 (my cost), that wouldn't happen in Canada. So yes, I think it's better and we don't have crazy expensive insurance. We have the insurance that most middle income families, that we know, have.

To date, I just haven't had the same experiences as you to form the same opinion. I'm not disagreeing with you just to disagree with you, I just haven't seen what you're describing to a large degree with most average Americans.
1970vintage
Seattle Kraken
Location: BC
Joined: 11.11.2010

Nov 24 @ 2:28 PM ET
Hate to change the subject, because this is all so fascinating, but what's the deal with trans kids (and by kids I mean young adults)?
bloatedmosquito
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I’m a dose of reality in this cesspool of glee
Joined: 10.22.2011

Nov 24 @ 3:34 PM ET
Hate to change the subject, because this is all so fascinating, but what's the deal with trans kids (and by kids I mean young adults)?
- 1970vintage


Mental illness? Hormonal imbalance? Fetus development issues? Choice?

I have no idea.
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