Good article by A Gretz

https://www.pensburgh.com...tanley-cup-jim-rutherford

"Why is a four-game sampling in one playoff series more important than a decade’s worth of high-level play and sustained dominance?"
- Thorny87

Incredibly on point.

Trade Malkin for a good young Dman, not quite Subban level + picks and ready prospects and good top 9 F. Go sign Duchene in FA.
- sammy87

I know you've seen Duchene play. He's not exactly a defensive stalwart that works his ass off every night.

Who are the dman, prospects, and top 9F you had in mind?

Also, due to the ever-increasing cap, Dcchene may actually end up costing more than Malkin on the cap.

Edit: Malking is making $9.5M, though it was $8.5M. Still, the difference in cap hit won't be all that severe.
- jmatchett383

Sammy’s just regurgitating all of his talking points from 2014 that were proven wrong already

Sammy’s just regurgitating all of his talking points from 2014 that were proven wrong already
- Victoro311

Well I'm sure he had a team in mind that would want to part with certain players and top prospects in exchange for 32-year-old (highly skilled) center with a $9.5M cap hit.

If not, then I'll counter with, "Penguins should trade Malkin for a top-pair defenseman, top-line winger, and 8 consecutive 1st round picks."

Incredibly on point.
- Victoro311

The whole article is a great read. Puts it into perspective and also mostly debunks that the best play of the season was in March. Although I do think the teams approach to D by supporting each other was better late in the season.

One could argue that because Tanger was out, they had to play tighter because they know they're not better back there without him. He comes back and everyone takes a break defensively.

Your opinion on the trade is fair. To me it’s a bit of addition by subtraction. To me, RyJo is younger and is a better 2-way player than Geno, I believe Granlund can absolutely bounce back and be a huge threat on PP2, and obviously Subban would be a huge get and would change our team dynamic PLUS we ditch JJ which we all agree adds a lot of value

On 72: assuming your thoughts are the same as mgmt - which is completely valid and I definitely don’t disagree, it’s also about what other GMs around the league believe. Are they all going to believe he’s cooked? I don’t think so especially when the market dries up. That’s why I’ll go ahead and say that Feds opinion of him is ridiculous, so much so that it looks like Trolling
- WSCTeton17

Teams do not want to trade assets for aging vets on bad contracts...

Its not trolling, its common sense.

https://www.capfriendly.c.../armchair-gm/team/1148598

I was just having fun with this lineup. I know none of this is realistic and Feds will have a good laugh at one of the moves.

Nashville could just resign Simmonds, who will probably come much cheaper than Horny after his last 2 seasons. He was looking to cash in on a 4+ year, $5+M annual contract. Right now, I can't see anyone paying him more than $2.5M for more than 3 years, max. Definitely less than Horny, at least.

If I were him, I'd sign a one-year "prove it" deal and bet on myself having a bounce back year.
- jmatchett383

If you’re Poile don’t you see this as your window still being open? Simmonds just had his opportunity to be the guy. He had 3 points after being dealt there. It wasn’t working for him. He was also a drag on the possession front with 60% OZ starts. I don’t think Poile sees him as the guy. 72 would be a large upgrade especially if the acquiring team feels he can bounce back even a little bit

My opinion again on 72: I only liked his extension because at the time I felt we could always trade him later for picks since we weren’t sending him out for Kane. I don’t think he’s worth a 1st now, but in a world where El Niño just went for Rask the idea that other GMs who don’t get who they want in FA would value him worth a 2nd round pick is not outlandish at all in my mind. He also had 8 ES points in 10 playoff games just one year ago.

If someone has the opinion that everyone is done after one down year then I think that’s an unfortunate outlook on life. People backing up this view on 72 with his concussion history certainly aren’t wrong. But if we held this view for our players and traded them after down years we would be selling low constantly and would’ve traded others by now

FWIW I think Guentzel was worse than Sid, Geno, or Phil this postseason but I’m betting he bounces back just fine

If you’re Poile don’t you see this as your window still being open? Simmonds just had his opportunity to be the guy. He had 3 points after being dealt there. It wasn’t working for him. He was also a drag on the possession front with 60% OZ starts. I don’t think Poile sees him as the guy. 72 would be a large upgrade especially if the acquiring team feels he can bounce back even a little bit

My opinion again on 72: I only liked his extension because at the time I felt we could always trade him later for picks since we weren’t sending him out for Kane. I don’t think he’s worth a 1st now, but in a world where El Niño just went for Rask the idea that other GMs who don’t get who they want in FA would value him worth a 2nd round pick is not outlandish at all in my mind. He also had 8 ES points in 10 playoff games just one year ago.

If someone has the opinion that everyone is done after one down year then I think that’s an unfortunate outlook on life. People backing up this view on 72 with his concussion history certainly aren’t wrong. But if we held this view for our players and traded them after down years we would be selling low constantly and would’ve traded others by now

FWIW I think Guentzel was worse than Sid, Geno, or Phil this postseason but I’m betting he bounces back just fine
- WSCTeton17

Please explain how you reconcile the 2 bolded parts.

Who are the dman, prospects, and top 9F you had in mind?

Also, due to the ever-increasing cap, Dcchene may actually end up costing more than Malkin on the cap.

Edit: Malking is making $9.5M, though it was $8.5M. Still, the difference in cap hit won't be all that severe.
- jmatchett383

I dont have the time to follow the rest of the league any more so I can't comment on who else it would be specifically. Isn't Duchene best bros with Crosby anyway? They can make it happen.

“Just to upgrade from RyJo to Malkin.” Lol. Well stupid me for throwing in Hornqvist, I forgot he brought negative value to the transaction. My bad dude

Everyone’s talking down on Granlund as if he played as bad as 72 and won’t recover. Clearly he’s not the fixation of the trade. I’ve said it before that Granlund would only be moving out if Poile felt that he wasn’t part of their plan moving forward - which makes sense. But I think your issue is more with me than my comments. I will expect a laughing emoji in response
- WSCTeton17

Take JJ out of the trade dummy

If you’re Poile don’t you see this as your window still being open? Simmonds just had his opportunity to be the guy. He had 3 points after being dealt there. It wasn’t working for him. He was also a drag on the possession front with 60% OZ starts. I don’t think Poile sees him as the guy. 72 would be a large upgrade especially if the acquiring team feels he can bounce back even a little bit

My opinion again on 72: I only liked his extension because at the time I felt we could always trade him later for picks since we weren’t sending him out for Kane. I don’t think he’s worth a 1st now, but in a world where El Niño just went for Rask the idea that other GMs who don’t get who they want in FA would value him worth a 2nd round pick is not outlandish at all in my mind. He also had 8 ES points in 10 playoff games just one year ago.

If someone has the opinion that everyone is done after one down year then I think that’s an unfortunate outlook on life. People backing up this view on 72 with his concussion history certainly aren’t wrong. But if we held this view for our players and traded them after down years we would be selling low constantly and would’ve traded others by now

FWIW I think Guentzel was worse than Sid, Geno, or Phil this postseason but I’m betting he bounces back just fine
- WSCTeton17

Agreed. I think Rust was worse than him though

Take JJ out of the trade dummy
- Feds91Stammer

The only way IMO there's a chance to move JJ is to a team that plans to hover around the cap-floor for a few years while they build, but the Pens would still need to retain salary and add other incentives.

If you’re Poile don’t you see this as your window still being open? Simmonds just had his opportunity to be the guy. He had 3 points after being dealt there. It wasn’t working for him. He was also a drag on the possession front with 60% OZ starts. I don’t think Poile sees him as the guy. 72 would be a large upgrade especially if the acquiring team feels he can bounce back even a little bit

My opinion again on 72: I only liked his extension because at the time I felt we could always trade him later for picks since we weren’t sending him out for Kane. I don’t think he’s worth a 1st now, but in a world where El Niño just went for Rask the idea that other GMs who don’t get who they want in FA would value him worth a 2nd round pick is not outlandish at all in my mind. He also had 8 ES points in 10 playoff games just one year ago.

If someone has the opinion that everyone is done after one down year then I think that’s an unfortunate outlook on life. People backing up this view on 72 with his concussion history certainly aren’t wrong. But if we held this view for our players and traded them after down years we would be selling low constantly and would’ve traded others by now

FWIW I think Guentzel was worse than Sid, Geno, or Phil this postseason but I’m betting he bounces back just fine
- WSCTeton17

You write so many words just to contradict yourself.

https://www.capfriendly.c.../armchair-gm/team/1148598

I was just having fun with this lineup. I know none of this is realistic and Feds will have a good laugh at one of the moves.
- Rinosaur

Sammy’s just regurgitating all of his talking points from 2014 that were proven wrong already
- Victoro311

Hronek and 3 2nds for Malkin

Agreed. I think Rust was worse than him though
- Thorny87

I love everyone nitpicking who was good or bad against the Isles. It reminds me of this inappropriate joke about winning a gold medal at the special olympics.

The Pens laid down and took in the A. There were no Penguins, aside from Murray IMO, who actually showed up every game. Most of the Pens played like dogpoop and that's it.

Teams do not want to trade assets for aging vets on bad contracts...

Its not trolling, its common sense.
- Feds91Stammer

Just like how it’s common sense that we all know Simmonds is overvalued by many and that he’s less likely to produce offense at a desirable rate for what he’s been said to be asking for, but Poile went for him anyways. Poile even brought in Boyle for his net front presence. If Poile thinks he’s the piece then that’s what he thinks, I’m not saying it’s an E5 (lol) I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me. What about El Niño for Rask? I’m sure all of us would’ve said beforehand that it’s a dumb trade proposal but it happened. We all knew signing JJ was dumb but then JR doubled down and also gave him a high cap hit for a replacement defender AND term. Expecting Gudbranson to come in and perform well wasn’t a prediction I was going to make, but he played fine.

Why would Carolina give up Skinner for peanuts? Because they knew he wasn’t going to re-sign there unless it was for more than they were willing to pay him. Rumors were similar to the players Carolina sent to Calgary

Echoing a prior thought: if Nashville is unhappy after free agency it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if they bring Neal back. Do I think sub6% is the new realistic shooting% for Neal for the remainder of his career? No. Even if he stays in CAL I’m guessing it somewhat improves but if he gets moved it wouldn’t surprise me if he returns to an 11% shooter

- Feds91Stammer

I love everyone nitpicking who was good or bad against the Isles. It reminds me of this inappropriate joke about winning a gold medal at the special olympics.

The Pens laid down and took in the A. There were no Penguins, aside from Murray IMO, who actually showed up every game. Most of the Pens played like dogpoop and that's it.
- Rinosaur

No one said anyone was good. Just different degrees of suck

Just like how it’s common sense that we all know Simmonds is overvalued by many and that he’s less likely to produce offense at a desirable rate for what he’s been said to be asking for, but Poile went for him anyways. Poile even brought in Boyle for his net front presence. If Poile thinks he’s the piece then that’s what he thinks, I’m not saying it’s an E5 (lol) I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me. What about El Niño for Rask? I’m sure all of us would’ve said beforehand that it’s a dumb trade proposal but it happened. We all knew signing JJ was dumb but then JR doubled down and also gave him a high cap hit for a replacement defender AND term. Expecting Gudbranson to come in and perform well wasn’t a prediction I was going to make, but he played fine.

Why would Carolina give up Skinner for peanuts? Because they knew he wasn’t going to re-sign there unless it was for more than they were willing to pay him. Rumors were similar to the players Carolina sent to Calgary

Echoing a prior thought: if Nashville is unhappy after free agency it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if they bring Neal back. Do I think sub6% is the new realistic shooting% for Neal for the remainder of his career? No. Even if he stays in CAL I’m guessing it somewhat improves but if he gets moved it wouldn’t surprise me if he returns to an 11% shooter
- WSCTeton17

- Rinosaur

Honestly was expecting you to steal AA from me.

No one said anyone was good. Just different degrees of suck
- Thorny87

When you're discussing varying degrees of suckage, it's a pretty moot discussion if you ask me lol.

There's a more deep-rooted problem with this team and hopefully it gets addressed.

Honestly was expecting you to steal AA from me.
- Feds91Stammer

Nahh. This lineup was a mix of stuff that will never happen, but at the same time moves that I think could be made, but won't.

I really don't want to change this team TOO much, but I think the moves I made bring the defense more toward the type they need to be successful even though I was a fan of Gudbranson this year, and add that speed/sandpaper they've been missing.

If you’re Poile don’t you see this as your window still being open? Simmonds just had his opportunity to be the guy. He had 3 points after being dealt there. It wasn’t working for him. He was also a drag on the possession front with 60% OZ starts. I don’t think Poile sees him as the guy. 72 would be a large upgrade especially if the acquiring team feels he can bounce back even a little bit

My opinion again on 72: I only liked his extension because at the time I felt we could always trade him later for picks since we weren’t sending him out for Kane. I don’t think he’s worth a 1st now, but in a world where El Niño just went for Rask the idea that other GMs who don’t get who they want in FA would value him worth a 2nd round pick is not outlandish at all in my mind. He also had 8 ES points in 10 playoff games just one year ago.

If someone has the opinion that everyone is done after one down year then I think that’s an unfortunate outlook on life. People backing up this view on 72 with his concussion history certainly aren’t wrong. But if we held this view for our players and traded them after down years we would be selling low constantly and would’ve traded others by now

FWIW I think Guentzel was worse than Sid, Geno, or Phil this postseason but I’m betting he bounces back just fine
- WSCTeton17

Yes you can't assume people are done after one down season, but you can definitely make safe assumptions based on several factors such as age, injury history, and skill set/style of play and how said skill set/style of play is affected by losing a physical step or two due to the aging curve. The outlook is not good for either Hornqvist or Simmonds.