playoff games are won as a team effort, not by individual players.
the team didn't deliver - basically because they're not a team.
that's a shared problem between Dubas/Shanahan, Babcock and his staff, and the players themselves.
- MaximusAurelius

Earlier you posted nonsense about one particular player, now you're talking about losing as a team which side of your mouth do you really want to talk out of?


*still waiting on that evidence requested*

(Not surprised it hasn't been posted, not expecting it to be posted either)

Do you think we would've won if he played 3 mins more? He played over 20 mins in game 6 and we unsurprisingly lost. This team doesn't have the mental capability to win a playoff series at the moment. There needs to be a number of changes as well as a change in strategy.
- walshyleafsfan

it was always going to be a tight series at 5v5. At the start of this series I said g'tending and special teams will define this female dog. Goaltending was a wash although Rask outplayed Freddie last night. Special teams blew. Does some special team coach get canned?

At 5v5 (and take away the empty netters) ...
Leafs top 6 outscored B's top 6 9-7
B's bottom 6 outscored Leafs bottom 6 4-3
Leafs D outscored B's D 2-1
B's PP outscored Leafs 7-3
B's bagged 4 EN goals

So you don't think coaching is one of the issues?
- RogerRoeper

sure, there might be some issues with the coaching.
personally I don't understand why Babcock never takes a timeout at important moments ( to properly prepare for last minutes, or to take away flow from game, etc.)

however I don't think it's the biggest issue for this Leafs team.

you cannot expect to have one of your young star players to block shots in final minute of a playoff game risking an injury (and his next contract!) while there is another guy afraid of getting his hairdo messed up by any physical contact.
those things just don't go well for a team.
I can guarantee you that Tavares, Rielly, Hyman, Marner and Matthews aren't too happy with Nylander's antics (holding out) and play (or non-play) these last 12 months.

I'm not excusing Babcock. There's multiple issues with this team. This isn't solely a fire the coach and everything will be OK type of deal. The Leafs aren't built to eliminate a team from the playoffs just yet. They had 2 stabs at it and failed. Again.

There needs to be a number of changes. Coach included. The homer fans think a coaching change is the answer. Easy to blame 1 person (2 if you include Marleau).

Lots of people suggested throughout the whole season they didn't see the Leafs knocking Boston out for a multitude of reasons. They were mostly laughed at.
- walshyleafsfan

I agree. I was not impressed with Babcock yesterday. I feel there has been a systemic failure at the coaching level to minimize the ice time of underperforming players and stick to a 4 line roll when it's unnecessary. I feel there has been an almost rebellious attitude towards the sports science and analytic information being fed to the coaching staff (how else do you explain pulling the goalie with 3 minutes left when you don't even have the puck on a dump in? TWICE?).

This is a game where Marner / Tavares / Matthews / Nylander / Johnsson / Moore / Kapanen / Hyman should have been front-loaded for the last 10 minutes. We didn't need to see Brown, Marleau or Ennis. And if that's not working, shorten it more.

But if we fired him, is Keefe the answer? Who is? You can't fire the coach unless you have a clear plan that you know is progress. I'm not sure if Keefe is progress.

sure, there might be some issues with the coaching.
personally I don't understand why Babcock never takes a timeout at important moments ( to properly prepare for last minutes, or to take away flow from game, etc.)

however I don't think it's the biggest issue for this Leafs team.

you cannot expect to have one of your young star players to block shots in final minute of a playoff game risking an injury (and his next contract!) while there is another guy afraid of getting his hairdo messed up by any physical contact.
those things just don't go well for a team.
I can guarantee you that Tavares, Rielly, Hyman, Marner and Matthews aren't too happy with Nylander's antics (holding out) and play (or non-play) these last 12 months.
- MaximusAurelius

Let's call a spade a spade: Marner was bad in this series after game 2. I thought Nylander wad actually better after that second game.

I'm not excusing Babcock. There's multiple issues with this team. This isn't solely a fire the coach and everything will be OK type of deal. The Leafs aren't built to eliminate a team from the playoffs just yet. They had 2 stabs at it and failed. Again.

There needs to be a number of changes. Coach included. The homer fans think a coaching change is the answer. Easy to blame 1 person (2 if you include Marleau).

Lots of people suggested throughout the whole season they didn't see the Leafs knocking Boston out for a multitude of reasons. They were mostly laughed at.
- walshyleafsfan

Hardly. Those that were laughed at were the ones that said they had no shot, and that ended up being false... Hence the laughing.

I agree. I was not impressed with Babcock yesterday. I feel there has been a systemic failure at the coaching level to minimize the ice time of underperforming players and stick to a 4 line roll when it's unnecessary. I feel there has been an almost rebellious attitude towards the sports science and analytic information being fed to the coaching staff (how else do you explain pulling the goalie with 3 minutes left when you don't even have the puck on a dump in? TWICE?).

This is a game where Marner / Tavares / Matthews / Nylander / Johnsson / Moore / Kapanen / Hyman should have been front-loaded for the last 10 minutes. We didn't need to see Brown, Marleau or Ennis. And if that's not working, shorten it more.

But if we fired him, is Keefe the answer? Who is? You can't fire the coach unless you have a clear plan that you know is progress. I'm not sure if Keefe is progress.
- Monkeypunk

And yet Keefe will be hired by another team to do so.
The issue with Babcock is you are dealing with a coach who will never change. Matthews is getting 11.6 million next season. Do you expect him to play an adequate amount? Of course not.

sure, there might be some issues with the coaching.
personally I don't understand why Babcock never takes a timeout at important moments ( to properly prepare for last minutes, or to take away flow from game, etc.)

however I don't think it's the biggest issue for this Leafs team.

you cannot expect to have one of your young star players to block shots in final minute of a playoff game risking an injury (and his next contract!) while there is another guy afraid of getting his hairdo messed up by any physical contact.
those things just don't go well for a team.
I can guarantee you that Tavares, Rielly, Hyman, Marner and Matthews aren't too happy with Nylander's antics (holding out) and play (or non-play) these last 12 months.
- MaximusAurelius

you guarantee it eh? Want to show evidence? They actually said they were glad he's back, but na they hate him.

I agree. I was not impressed with Babcock yesterday. I feel there has been a systemic failure at the coaching level to minimize the ice time of underperforming players and stick to a 4 line roll when it's unnecessary. I feel there has been an almost rebellious attitude towards the sports science and analytic information being fed to the coaching staff (how else do you explain pulling the goalie with 3 minutes left when you don't even have the puck on a dump in? TWICE?).

This is a game where Marner / Tavares / Matthews / Nylander / Johnsson / Moore / Kapanen / Hyman should have been front-loaded for the last 10 minutes. We didn't need to see Brown, Marleau or Ennis. And if that's not working, shorten it more.

But if we fired him, is Keefe the answer? Who is? You can't fire the coach unless you have a clear plan that you know is progress. I'm not sure if Keefe is progress.
- Monkeypunk

Yeah, it would be a risky appointment for a team that is supposedly challenging now (although i personally believe we'll have to wait until 2020/21). If Laviolette is let go by the Preds, doubt he will be, but if he is, do they look there?

Everyone is disappointed.

You say in one post:



And then go on in another to bash Nylander because it's his fault.

Which is it, Max?

You're not in the room. By all accounts, the team likes Nylander and he's a part of the core.

Nylander can be faulted for an empty net goal. He shouldn't be faulted because his idiot coaching staff likes to pull the goalie when we don't even have the puck. He can't be faulted for having Marleau and Brown as wingers who were boat anchors to EVERYONE this season. He did just fine.

Last night's game - specifically - is on Andersen. It should have been a 1-1 game, not a 3-1 game. And that's not on Nylander.
- Monkeypunk

Sorry, I don’t agree. The first goal, yes. It was soft. But the third goal was because of Rielly’s stick. The goal on teh brain-dead Gardiners giveaway was the killer. As soon as that happened it was over. Confidence shot. You cant do stuff like that in a game 7... Andersen was not the problem.

And yet Keefe will be hired by another team to do so.
- RogerRoeper

Dallas Eakins was hired by another team.

Let's call a spade a spade: Marner was bad in this series after game 2. I thought Nylander wad actually better after that second game.
- RogerRoeper

Yes.

Yeah, it would be a risky appointment for a team that is supposedly challenging now (although i personally believe we'll have to wait until 2020/21). If Laviolette is let go by the Preds, doubt he will be, but if he is, do they look there?
- walshyleafsfan

We don't need to join the old coaches recycling program. Grab Keefe. Some other team will.

it was always going to be a tight series at 5v5. At the start of this series I said g'tending and special teams will define this female dog. Goaltending was a wash although Rask outplayed Freddie last night. Special teams blew. Does some special team coach get canned?

At 5v5 (and take away the empty netters) ...
Leafs top 6 outscored B's top 6 9-7
B's bottom 6 outscored Leafs bottom 6 4-3
Leafs D outscored B's D 2-1
B's PP outscored Leafs 7-3
B's bagged 4 EN goals
- The Law

Honestly, and it's not a case of being an a-hole about losing, I hope so. Their PP was inexcusably bad for the talent it rolled out. It was stationary and predictable. I could have drawn up a defense for it, and I'm drunk 64% of the time. Their PK was abysmal. It couldn't decide if it was a pressure kill or a passive kill. And usually ended up being an ugly hybrid of both leaving exploitable gaps.

Dallas Eakins was hired by another team.
- walshyleafsfan

Let's assume they are the same...

This idea we need to recycle a previously fired coach is ridiculous. Todd mclellen will be fired within 2 years in LA.

Anyone else think that injured players should sit and be replaced by call ups?

I love Hyman, but should he have been playing? Gardiner?

I know you battle through little injuries, but they looked laboured... just another little thing to dissect...

Anyone else think that injured players should sit and be replaced by call ups?

I love Hyman, but should he have been playing? Gardiner?

I know you battle through little injuries, but they looked laboured... just another little thing to dissect...

Let's assume they are the same...
- RogerRoeper

nah.
Eakin's a good guy.
Keefe's a douchebag.

Honestly, and it's not a case of being an a-hole about losing, I hope so. Their PP was inexcusably bad for the talent it rolled out. It was stationary and predictable. I could have drawn up a defense for it, and I'm drunk 64% of the time. Their PK was abysmal. It couldn't decide if it was a pressure kill or a passive kill. And usually ended up being an ugly hybrid of both leaving exploitable gaps.
- Monkeypunk

I said this back in early dec. said I heard reports about players being unhappy with pp setup. I was laughed at.

Boston said after last night they can't beleive the leafs kept doing the same thing that continually didn't work and didn't play their big guns on the pp more.

But it's not a problem.

Hardly. Those that were laughed at were the ones that said they had no shot, and that ended up being false... Hence the laughing.
- burn

Nope. They were derided for thinking the Leafs weren't contenders. Doubting the Leafs could actually beat Boston.

There were a lot of and and MOAR GRIT.

Those people know who they are (I assume you do), and now that the inevitable has occurred, they're trying to cover tracks by simply blaming the coach for all issues.

It sucks people were ridiculed, but it is what it is. The same thing happened with talk about Zaitsev and Gardiner. Again, it's unfortunate, but we can't change the past.

Leafs are a cracking regular season team, so that's half the battle. They just need to figure the other half out.

Let's assume they are the same...
- RogerRoeper

I have no evidence to suggest otherwise at this moment.

Anyone else think that injured players should sit and be replaced by call ups?

I love Hyman, but should he have been playing? Gardiner?

I know you battle through little injuries, but they looked laboured... just another little thing to dissect...
- Hockey_Reverend

What's infuriating is babcock said no one was better at 100% than Gardiner at less than 100% (Far less). Yet he never plays young players anyways.

I have no evidence to suggest otherwise at this moment.
- walshyleafsfan

Keefe is having better success in the AHL level.

Anyone else think that injured players should sit and be replaced by call ups?

I love Hyman, but should he have been playing? Gardiner?

I know you battle through little injuries, but they looked laboured... just another little thing to dissect...
- Hockey_Reverend

Who would we have played instead of Hyman?