Hey Ryan I kept reading for weeks how the Islanders would be such a favorable matchup for your beloved Penguins. Over and over you were begging for the Penguins first series to be against the Islanders. Well, you just learned a hard lesson, be careful what you wish for! And it amazes me the only thing you see about the series is all the Penguins' failures. Almost no credit for a team that played incredibly solid hockey, the New York Islanders!
- mrniftee

That’s because he would have to mention how good the Islanders 4th line played.

the team is kinda stale... they should trade Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guddy, Johnson and build around Kessel, Murray, Schultz, McCann and whoever is young there... they'll get a bunch of first round and other picks, nhl ready prospects that are top shelf, and reduce their cap to compete for years to come... the Las Vegas model if you will....

the team is kinda stale... they should trade Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guddy, Johnson and build around Kessel, Murray, Schultz, McCann and whoever is young there... they'll get a bunch of first round and other picks, nhl ready prospects that are top shelf, and reduce their cap to compete for years to come... the Las Vegas model if you will....
- kaptaan

?

The more I think about it, the more I realize Rutherford has to go. Penguins can turn this around, but another typical offseason performance by him and this organization could be crippled for the rest of our core's career.

Rutherford has probably been more reckless with picks than Shero was (and thats saying something). In 2015, we had given up our first round pick. Who was picked? Matt Barzal. Who was picked right after? Kyle Connor & Thomas Cabot. All to get David franking Perron. Trading a 1st for a movel like Kessel made sense. Trading a 1st or 2nd for spare pieces is just crazy. We have no 2nd and 3rd this year and for what?

As others have said, we gave away the future for success. It didnt always work out, but in 16 & 17 it did. However, now we face the reality of an empty prospect pool and no guys on ELCs ready to save us.

First thing is first, pick a good player this season. Even if he is 2 years away, getting him in the lineup for the backend of this core would be a good thing.

Second thing is you have a lot of spare parts, most of them making too much money. See what it will take to unload them. Johnson isnt going anything unless Rutherford goes. Rutherford is too stubborn to see reality.

I think this "core is dead" talk is wrong. We said the same thing in 2015 after those playoffs. It will take some retooling and refocusing. I think they can do it, I just have no confidence Rutherford can do it.

the team is kinda stale... they should trade Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guddy, Johnson and build around Kessel, Murray, Schultz, McCann and whoever is young there... they'll get a bunch of first round and other picks, nhl ready prospects that are top shelf, and reduce their cap to compete for years to come... the Las Vegas model if you will....
- kaptaan

Okay, the Canucks first. We will take Pettersson and Hughes.

Sucks that the Pens are gonna suck the same time the Steelers are gonna suck. Couldn’t they like offset their suckiness so we at least had some team to root for while the other is rebuilding?

The more I think about it, the more I realize Rutherford has to go. Penguins can turn this around, but another typical offseason performance by him and this organization could be crippled for the rest of our core's career.

Rutherford has probably been more reckless with picks than Shero was (and thats saying something). In 2015, we had given up our first round pick. Who was picked? Matt Barzal. Who was picked right after? Kyle Connor & Thomas Cabot. All to get David franking Perron. Trading a 1st for a movel like Kessel made sense. Trading a 1st or 2nd for spare pieces is just crazy. We have no 2nd and 3rd this year and for what?

As others have said, we gave away the future for success. It didnt always work out, but in 16 & 17 it did. However, now we face the reality of an empty prospect pool and no guys on ELCs ready to save us.

First thing is first, pick a good player this season. Even if he is 2 years away, getting him in the lineup for the backend of this core would be a good thing.

Second thing is you have a lot of spare parts, most of them making too much money. See what it will take to unload them. Johnson isnt going anything unless Rutherford goes. Rutherford is too stubborn to see reality.

I think this "core is dead" talk is wrong. We said the same thing in 2015 after those playoffs. It will take some retooling and refocusing. I think they can do it, I just have no confidence Rutherford can do it.
- SuperHenderson13

Dont forget the 2 x 1sts (Reeves went for a 1st +Sundquist) + Cole, G Prospect, Reeves for Derrick healthy Scratch Brassard.

Cole is better than JJ or Gubs and Sundquest is better than anyone on the 4th this year.

Those 2 firsts could have been used for someone useful. Yes I think JR needs to go, but doubt he will.

Dont forget the 2 x 1sts (Reeves went for a 1st +Sundquist) + Cole, G Prospect, Reeves for Derrick healthy Scratch Brassard.

Cole is better than JJ or Gubs and Sundquest is better than anyone on the 4th this year.

Those 2 firsts could have been used for someone useful. Yes I think JR needs to go, but doubt he will.
- sammy87

I was ok with trading Ian cole based on what he got in the off-season. I was not ok with how they had to trade cole, a 1st, and a good prospect for brassard. Could have gotten duchene for that amount.

What made absolutely no sense to me was signing Jack Johnson when you already have Letang, Dumo, Schultz, maatta, and Oleksiak. Then add Pettersson and it’s a good, young-ish defensive group. JR completely screwed the team and he needs to go

Gm and coach are where you start. One or both need to go. I think of the core malkin is the one that needs to go. I’m not looking at this team needing a rebuild. But it needs a retooling. You can certainly move malkin for a quality center + prospects and picks. He really was bad all season. Kessel is one of my favorites. But he also doesn’t offer much anywhere on the ice. These two can be moved and add youth and much more depth offense. Jack Johnson we all know needs to go. Gudbranson was good enough to deserve a role starting the season.

If, and its a big if, would anyone consider sending someone an offer sheet this offseason? I'm talking a younger guy that moving the draft pick(s) would make sense for.

We have no second round pick (because we had to pay a team to take our top caliber goalie, lol) so that takes out the $2.029-4.059M/year range. But I would def. be willing to look at someone.

I doubt Rutherford would given that he is an older guy. I wish more teams would send offer sheets. It would make boring free agency a little more interesting.

What a spoiled fan base to think that moving two point per game players is a good idea lol

Lehner definitely outplayed Murray, wasnt tested as much, but outplayed him none the less. Murray let in some very untimely goals that were savable.
- MattStrat

Here we go. Blame Murray. I'm so sick of this. Where were you when Fleury did that in 2008 Final, 2010 vs Montreal, 2011 vs Tampa Bay, the entire series vs Philly in 2012, When Flower got pulled in 2013, Games 5-6-7 vs NY in 2014 ????
You Flower fans have held a microscope to Murray for every single goal he has allowed--and yes some have been soft. But you never held Flower accountable for any of the soft goals he allowed as a Penguin, preferring instead to blame everyone from the strength and conditioning coach to the beer vendor in section 216. Murray could have been near perfect in this series and still lost

What a spoiled fan base to think that moving two point per game players is a good idea lol
- j.boyd919

Some Pittsburgh hockey writers are actually stating the Pens have to seriously consider moving Letang.

Some Pittsburgh hockey writers are actually stating the Pens have to seriously consider moving Letang.
- Rinosaur

Yeah i read that too.

Kessel, JJ and Maata the the most likely to be gone IMO.

MacKinnon is putting on a show tonight. He’s just dominating.

Yeah i read that too.

Kessel, JJ and Maata the the most likely to be gone IMO.
- sammy87

We can only hope JR finds a way to rid themselves of JJ.

MacKinnon is putting on a show tonight. He’s just dominating.
- Thorny87

Seems like Colorado has regained their form.

GMJR was so afraid to fall into the trap of overpaying players on the cup-winning rosters with lucrative contracts. I didn't hate the philosophy, but shake my head when considering the following:

Bonino for $4m/yr cost a lot less than the assets wasted in the 3rd line center saga.

Cole is an unreal value compared to the contracts of either JJ or Gud and the assets wasted to acquire those players (Sheary/Hunwick for JJ cap space).

Kunitz had a lot left in the tank to be a great value at $1m/yr.

With that being said, this team still looks poised for legitimate cup contention. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only players that contribute to the puck-moving, fast-paced style that are gone from 2016/17 are Trevor Daley, Carl Hagelin, and Conor Sheary. While we need to address those losses with similar style players, the pens just need to play smarter. The characteristics of players being drafted and dressed in the NHL has changed drastically in the last few years. Stricter penalty enforcement (for the most part) and a decline in fighting started the trend of smaller, faster, skilled players. The 2016 Pens were the manifestation of that trend taking over the league. I'm all for adding more speed, but keep in mind they're not going to fool teams with Murphy dumps the way they did in 2016. They won't create as much chaos on the forecheck either because all teams are dressing a higher percentage of puck-moving defensemen and/or the less-skilled defensemen are adapting to that style of play.

Buyout on JJ is needed. I think Guddy may have played well enough for us to trade him without costing futures. I'd look to swap him with a slightly overpaid, fast forward that better complements our roster. Sign another speed player with JJ cap space (Hagelin anyone). There are your two forward replacements. If you want puck movers on the back end that can skate, I think Rikola should have a roster spot to start the year. His stats show why he got booted from the lineup, but his eye test says he's a playmaker with plenty of potential to become a good middle-bottom pairing defender in the short term (already being 25).

59-87-19
17-71-72
62-27-81
46-53-12
*Another forward from JJ buyout?

8-58
28-4
3-50

They can field a similarly fast roster if they want to. McCann is a big addition in that regard, as well as how well he thinks the game. The bottom line is they need to play smarter though. Be diligent with team structure, punish the opposition with speed and offense when given the opportunities, and insulate Murray in the defensive zone. Murray can easily be the best goalie in the league with the right team structure around him. The window is not closed boys, not even close.

Some Pittsburgh hockey writers are actually stating the Pens have to seriously consider moving Letang.
- Rinosaur

I love Letang but they absolutely should consider moving him. He's fantastic but eats a lot of cap space and is always injured. They need to listen to see if anyone is willing to pay out a premium.

Along the same line, they need to listen to offers on anyone not named Crosby or Guentzel.

If that theory holds true, then what's the explanation for signing Jack Johnson to a 5-year contract. How was he allowed to do that? That is a painful handcuff to deal with for many years to come. Did he see something in him (while being scratched) that none of the other 30 teams did? Mind-boggling. Same with Maatta's contract at $4M/year. Completely unwarranted.
- chimpira

The JJ signing so much didn't make sense, that I have a theory on that too:

He was just barely good enough to be signed, and because him and Sid are good friends, Sid asked GMJR threw him a $ bone (considering his financial situation).

Seems crazy, I know, but no one else to date has come up with a better explanation...

He's actually played much better since the Pens moved him to his natural side, and I think most of the abuse he takes is GMJR's fault, for the overpay.

the team is kinda stale... they should trade Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guddy, Johnson and build around Kessel, Murray, Schultz, McCann and whoever is young there... they'll get a bunch of first round and other picks, nhl ready prospects that are top shelf, and reduce their cap to compete for years to come... the Las Vegas model if you will....
- kaptaan

Leave Sid out of this, please. He stays forever, and will captain the ship when Mario retires.

Curious as to whether you gentlemen think losing former assistant GM Botterill has hurt the Penguins in the past couple of years.

I figure he will fix the Sabres given more time, but it does seem like he messed up with the Housley hiring (some talk in the Sabres thread that the owners really wanted Housley). My worry is that if the next coach doesn't improve the Sabres then Botterill will be the next fall guy.

Cant believe there's no Pens game tonight...and its my bday tomorrow...

I love Letang but they absolutely should consider moving him. He's fantastic but eats a lot of cap space and is always injured. They need to listen to see if anyone is willing to pay out a premium.

Along the same line, they need to listen to offers on anyone not named Crosby or Guentzel.
- MacPatty

7.25 mill for what Tanger brings is a bargain now. You are not finding anyone that comes close to replacing him for that value. I'll be the first to admit he looked bad these playoffs but he wasnt 100%, no way, and also hadnt had a lot of game action before game 1.

Curious as to whether you gentlemen think losing former assistant GM Botterill has hurt the Penguins in the past couple of years.

I figure he will fix the Sabres given more time, but it does seem like he messed up with the Housley hiring (some talk in the Sabres thread that the owners really wanted Housley). My worry is that if the next coach doesn't improve the Sabres then Botterill will be the next fall guy.
- 100goalseason

I do, I believe he did a lot of good things here. Of course I don't have access to any of the inner workings that went on during his tenure here.

I would like to see Rutherford turn over the everyday GM duties to a younger guy. I think he has overextended himself. And with only having to answer to Mario he has no one to counter some of his crazy moves. Mario is very patient but is decisive when he makes a decision and I can see him stepping in and removing GMJR from his GM position.

Also Matt Cullen returned this year for reasons other than playing one more year. He is going to get a position in the organization somewhere.