I think trading any of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel or Kessel is packing it in for a rebuild. You’re not going to get anyone back that helps the roster more than those guys are already doing right now in a trade, and we don’t have anyone on the team or the pipelines that can step in and fill their shoes. And I personally don’t want to rebuild. This Era’s been great and I think Sid and Geno definitely and maybe Letang deserve to retire Penguins. Retool and compete until you can’t compete anymore and then go quietly into the night like Detroit did after Datz and Z got too old. But unlike Detroit, once Sid and Geno retire, actually rebuild rather than try to stay competitive with middling players.
- Victoro311

Agreed 100%.

I have watched both teams closely all year. I will say in this series the pens just seemed off. I mean I saw Malkin a few times try to take on the whole islanders defense by himself and that didn’t work. I saw Crosby not be himself in the sense of not skating or playing hard. Game four he was a little more noticeable. Letang was not his annoying getting under you skin self. The pens weren’t crashing the nets at all.

I will say I do agree with one thing and that is Johnson looked bad I mean really bad. He gave the puck away to many times and played soft in his zone

Looked like a team that just didn't want it that bad. Even in game 4, it felt like I was watching them play a game in the middle of January. Didn't seem like there was any urgency from the big guns either. Complacency from recent success? Maybe. Hopefully this embarrassment can be used as motivation for them next year, because they got their collective booties clapped.

Having said that, all credit to the Islanders. They wanted to prove everyone wrong and did, that was evident all series long.

I've never seen a defenseman so good as skating from end to end, going into the corner, and throwing a puck into the slot hoping for a redirect, and not getting back in time to prevent an odd-man rush.

Remarkable amount of talent, but his decision making left much to be desired.

Edit: Hybrid icing does not work.
- jmatchett383

He transitioned into being a much more steady presence (and sneaky dirty) player in Raleigh.

He didn't lead the rush much anymore but instead would deliver some of the best breakout passes I'd ever seen. It took forever to find somebody who could get it out of the zone the way he could.

Oh, and Hybrid Icing is fine. It changes almost nothing throughout the course of a game. Sometimes linesmen (frank) it up, but you so rarely notice that it even happens who cares.

He transitioned into being a much more steady presence (and sneaky dirty) player in Raleigh.

He didn't lead the rush much anymore but instead would deliver some of the best breakout passes I'd ever seen. It took forever to find somebody who could get it out of the zone the way he could.
- BINGO!

Like I said, the skills were there. Maybe he just needed to mature, because he was aggravating as hell in Philly. He'd make 3/4 of a great play, and then screw it up in the end with a bone-headed mistake.

He transitioned into being a much more steady presence (and sneaky dirty) player in Raleigh.

He didn't lead the rush much anymore but instead would deliver some of the best breakout passes I'd ever seen. It took forever to find somebody who could get it out of the zone the way he could.

Oh, and Hybrid Icing is fine. It changes almost nothing throughout the course of a game. Sometimes linesmen (frank) it up, but you so rarely notice that it even happens who cares.
- BINGO!

The reason I mention hybrid icing is because it was supposed to prevent things like the Pitkanen injury. The problem is, the only time it's NOT called automatic icing is when the defenseman isn't clearly going to win the race, like the Pitkanen play.

Agreed 100%.
- jmatchett383

I think it’s 50/50 we can retool for one last push over the next couple of years. None of our stars are in serious decline and the rise of Guentzel has been huge for us. I just don’t have a ton of faith in leadership right now. JR hasn’t made many good moves over the past couple of seasons, and really the only thing keeping him from being an unmitigated disaster was the trade with Florida this season. And in the field it seems like Sullivan has lost the room and trying to force the players to play a style that doesn’t suit them. There’s a chance Rutherford stumbles ass backwards into some inspired moves this offseason, just as there’s a chance Sullivan has a renaissance and possibly shuffles his staff, but I think that the chances we’ll stay the course or do something super dumb like trade Kessel are just as big.

But regardless, even if the window does slam closed this offseason, the faces of this franchise should not be traded unless they ask to be. They’ve done too much for this franchise to be shown the door because of the whims of a GM that doesn’t have a real plan in place and is just making change for the sake of it.

I think it’s 50/50 we can retool for one last push over the next couple of years. None of our stars are in serious decline and the rise of Guentzel has been huge for us. I just don’t have a ton of faith in leadership right now. JR hasn’t made many good moves over the past couple of seasons, and really the only thing keeping him from being an unmitigated disaster was the trade with Florida this season. And in the field it seems like Sullivan has lost the room and trying to force the players to play a style that doesn’t suit them. There’s a chance Rutherford stumbles ass backwards into some inspired moves this offseason, just as there’s a chance Sullivan has a renaissance and possibly shuffles his staff, but I think that the chances we’ll stay the course or do something super dumb like trade Kessel are just as big.

But regardless, even if the window does slam closed this offseason, the faces of this franchise should not be traded unless they ask to be. They’ve done too much for this franchise to be shown the door because of the whims of a GM that doesn’t have a real plan in place and is just making change for the sake of it.
- Victoro311

I don't think they can retool because the only things they can retool with are the pieces they can't move. Plus, they're near the ceiling, so unless they can some nice value picks, UFA isn't an option. Their best chance at success is for Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and Murray to enter god mode for 2 months.

But I agree, Malkin, Crosby, and Letang should have the option to be Penguins for life.

I think it’s 50/50 we can retool for one last push over the next couple of years. None of our stars are in serious decline and the rise of Guentzel has been huge for us. I just don’t have a ton of faith in leadership right now. JR hasn’t made many good moves over the past couple of seasons, and really the only thing keeping him from being an unmitigated disaster was the trade with Florida this season. And in the field it seems like Sullivan has lost the room and trying to force the players to play a style that doesn’t suit them. There’s a chance Rutherford stumbles ass backwards into some inspired moves this offseason, just as there’s a chance Sullivan has a renaissance and possibly shuffles his staff, but I think that the chances we’ll stay the course or do something super dumb like trade Kessel are just as big.

But regardless, even if the window does slam closed this offseason, the faces of this franchise should not be traded unless they ask to be. They’ve done too much for this franchise to be shown the door because of the whims of a GM that doesn’t have a real plan in place and is just making change for the sake of it.
- Victoro311

That is gonna change quickly bud.

That is gonna change quickly bud.
- Feds91Stammer

Thats what you said 2 years ago.

One thing I don't understand is why not just use a buyout on Jack Johnson? All the talk is about moving him. Why not just cut your losses and keep whatever assets you would have given up to move him and cut ties with Mr. Johnson. Watch I can see it now, a draft pick and Bryan Rust along with Jack Johnson to I don't know to Arizona for sake of argument.

One thing I don't understand is why not just use a buyout on Jack Johnson? All the talk is about moving him. Why not just cut your losses and keep whatever assets you would have given up to move him and cut ties with Mr. Johnson. Watch I can see it now, a draft pick and Bryan Rust along with Jack Johnson to I don't know to Arizona for sake of argument.
- MaDdMuNk87

First, GMJR has to think he's a problem....

That trade also cost him draft picks... and the trade to get Brass in the first place... draft picks and prospects.
- Guile

They sent picks to FLA? I dont recall.

The Brassard and JJ are his 2 dumbest moves. The 2nd was moving Hags for 3 more years of wasted cap space.

They sent picks to FLA? I dont recall.

The Brassard and JJ are his 2 dumbest moves. The 2nd was moving Hags for 3 more years of wasted cap space.
- sammy87

Two 2nds and a 4th I believe.

Brassard was thought to be a very good move at the time. He just went to sh!t after that bad groin injury and was never effective again.

They sent picks to FLA? I dont recall.

The Brassard and JJ are his 2 dumbest moves. The 2nd was moving Hags for 3 more years of wasted cap space.
- sammy87

I won't fault the Brassard move. Everyone at the time thought it was great. It just didnt pan out when it had a high chance of being good.

But counting the 1st and others for Brass... Flordia took a 2nd and a 4th.

That is a lot for Bjug and McCain.

Two 2nds and a 4th I believe.

Brassard was thought to be a very good move at the time. He just went to sh!t after that bad groin injury and was never effective again.
- MattStrat

IDK...They sent Reeves, 1st, 4th, G Prospect and Cole out for Brassard.

Reeves and Cole could have helped the last 2 years. Cole is > JJ, Gubs, Rikola, Maata, Peterson.....Brassard was 30 at the time....It always felt like a dumb move.

I do find it funny how badly Wilson wanted to play the isles first round because "well they just got lucky for 82 games". They played exactly how they are coached to play and clearly it worked. "Trotz is as average coach just getting lucky all these years to"... ya ok 1 short year ago there were literally people saying gallant and trotz were bad coaches and there teams were getting lucky... yikes I guess they are still getting "lucky". Same people said the same things about Lamorillo and Mcphee... yikes...

If we are saying we lost because of whos playing for us id rather have Letang, Dumolin, Schultz, Johnson, Pettersson and Gudbranson over Boychuk, Leddy, Pelech, Pulock, Toews and Mayfeild...

Remember Wilson you ranted to us saying how bad the isles were gonna be before the year and during the year. Kuhnhackl, Martin, Komarov, clutterbuck, czikas cant be on your roster to win right? Pettersson was scared to get hit by clutterbuck on the 2nd goal and wouldnt even play the puck and it was in the back of our net approximately 5 seconds later. 4 goals in this series started from not taking a hit to make the play. But that doesnt matter. The power play going I think 1-12 and generating nothing... doesnt matter. Crosby and the top line having 1 point each in 4 games... doesnt matter. Are we going to blame Johnson as shhiitt as he is for letang not being able to get the puck to crosby to? How about the islanders willingly putting the 4th line against the pens top line and doing well with it? Whos to blame there? Johnson?

I think trading any of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel or Kessel is packing it in for a rebuild. You’re not going to get anyone back that helps the roster more than those guys are already doing right now in a trade, and we don’t have anyone on the team or the pipelines that can step in and fill their shoes. And I personally don’t want to rebuild. This Era’s been great and I think Sid and Geno definitely and maybe Letang deserve to retire Penguins. Retool and compete until you can’t compete anymore and then go quietly into the night like Detroit did after Datz and Z got too old. But unlike Detroit, once Sid and Geno retire, actually rebuild rather than try to stay competitive with middling players.
- Victoro311

Completely agree with all of it. And if it’s the end of the window, I want 87, 81, 58 to stay Pens u til they retire (if that’s what they want). 3 cups and 4 finals in a career is a hell of an accomplishment. Some players can’t even get to the finals once. I’m happy even though I know that he JR not mangled the roster they could probably still compete for another 2 years without being a bubble team like Detroit. But whatever, who’s the next generational talent that Bettman will fix the lottery for the pens to get?

I think going into a season with big G and Pettersson as your bottom pair isn’t the end of the world. Johnson of course and Hornqvist should be the biggest concern. Garret Wilson could fill a Hornqvist role if a coach told him he was allowed too. He probably wouldnt be a serial facewasher that continues to take instead of draw penalties and wouldn’t wait until a ref got between him to challenge a goalie to a fight. Just laughable. Then we come to Matt Murray, he didn’t have a terrible playoff but looking over the roster he’s probably the one guy that would draw equal to or above value on the market to bring in help via trade. If all you need is average goaltending to win he could be replaced internally. I’m sure that Stanley cup fairy dust is still all over Murray in the minds of gms.

I really just wonder if JR still thinks JJ is a good dman and one the Pens need going forward. That alone would tell us how he views building this team moving forward.

Completely agree with all of it. And if it’s the end of the window, I want 87, 81, 58 to stay Pens u til they retire (if that’s what they want). 3 cups and 4 finals in a career is a hell of an accomplishment. Some players can’t even get to the finals once. I’m happy even though I know that he JR not mangled the roster they could probably still compete for another 2 years without being a bubble team like Detroit. But whatever, who’s the next generational talent that Bettman will fix the lottery for the pens to get?
- j.boyd919

If Phil wants to join the retire a Penguin party, he’s more than welcome too, haha.

Thats what you said 2 years ago.
- MattStrat

Just saying I have already seen this movie.

I think going into a season with big G and Pettersson as your bottom pair isn’t the end of the world. Johnson of course and Hornqvist should be the biggest concern. Garret Wilson could fill a Hornqvist role if a coach told him he was allowed too. He probably wouldnt be a serial facewasher that continues to take instead of draw penalties and wouldn’t wait until a ref got between him to challenge a goalie to a fight. Just laughable. Then we come to Matt Murray, he didn’t have a terrible playoff but looking over the roster he’s probably the one guy that would draw equal to or above value on the market to bring in help via trade. If all you need is average goaltending to win he could be replaced internally. I’m sure that Stanley cup fairy dust is still all over Murray in the minds of gms.
- Grinder47

Murray is a good goalie, man. IMO one of the biggest reasons they even made the playoffs down the stretch.

One of JJ or Gud has to go and I'd pick JJ because he did show some promise with Petts and Petts can be cost controlled. Also, while his cap hit is a bit higher, he's only signed for 2 more years as opposed to JJ and his 4 more years.

Thats what you said 2 years ago.
- MattStrat

A Broken clock is right at least twice a day. If he keeps chirpin it, it'll eventually come true. Hahahaha