Soo we are going to wait and see if our youth, when ready, can take us over the hump whenever that is. Great idea, now what happens if they can't? Should we continue to wait and develop?
- ClaudeFather

As I said previously, there are no guarantees either way. So if you fail, which situation is better? Having cap flexibility and a failed team or being maxed out to the cap and being a failed team?

As I said previously, there are no guarantees either way. So if you fail, which situation is better? Having cap flexibility and a failed team or being maxed out to the cap and being a failed team?
- MJL

Maxed out team probably has further playoff runs, i'll go with that. All your doing is saying draft and develop, teams need to make trades and utilize FA to get a cup. Draft Develop got Hextall canned.

I actually think i would prefer a guy like Brock Nelson. He could slid into the 2c position and let Patrick play the 3c.

I feel like if your going into the season with Voracek still here then you don't want to pay a big contract for Panarin or Duchene.

Depending on cost maybe take a lesser option like Dzingle who can do a couple things for you and brings speed.
- J35Bacher

I'm with you, he's looked good so far. I wouldn't mind seeing him here - I think he'll have a lot of suitors. So who knows what the price will be.

Correct. So for a guy like Patrick next year, unless he breaks out, we could get him on a bridge, maybe a 2 year/4.5 mil contract. For Provy this year though, I would hope something like 6 years/48 mil. With a guy like Lindblom if his development arc stays the same, i could see something like 5 years/20 mil. However, a 2.5 mil AAV and a 4 mil AAV, allows for a big UFA or two. I'm not saying litter the team with UFA's, we don't need that many. But signing one or two, and maybe the second one isn't a large overpay, maybe its an under the radar signing, but either way I think there are several guys out there that will be signed to large contracts that can absolutely help this team immediately and fills immediate needs:

Panarin (bonafide scorer)
Duchene (solidify 2C)
Pavelski (solidify 2C or 1RW)
Edler (vet dman)
Nyquist (scorers ilk)
Kronwall (vet dman)
Jumbo Joe (2C)

I would only really break the bank for the top three, but all would help this team, albeit for the right price. Everything leads back to the right price.
- sjk540

Sanheim, Konecny, Hart, Lindblom and Myers will all eventually need new deals. I can't understand why some think that Provorov is worth 8M a year. That would be a horrendous deal for the Flyers in my opinion.

As I said previously, there are no guarantees either way. So if you fail, which situation is better? Having cap flexibility and a failed team or being maxed out to the cap and being a failed team?
- MJL

I believe the answer lies somewhere in between. Draft, develop, see what we have and fill gaps with FA if available. Not one team in the playoffs is solely draft and develop or solely acquiring FAs.

Maxed out team probably has further playoff runs, i'll go with that. All your doing is saying draft and develop, teams need to make trades and utilize FA to get a cup. Draft Develop got Hextall canned.
- ClaudeFather

You're wrong. What I've said is that it is about timing. I don't think now is the time for going after big money free agents. What I haven't said is that the team should never make a trade or sign a free agent.

Hextall has set this team up. A lack of patience from management in seeing through what they started and what they wanted when Hextall was hired is what got him fired.

I'm with you, he's looked good so far. I wouldn't mind seeing him here - I think he'll have a lot of suitors. So who knows what the price will be.
- FlyersGrace

Besides Brock, I am secretly hoping that we find a way to land Trouba... It's a dream but a nice one.

I believe the answer lies somewhere in between. Draft, develop, see what we have and fill gaps with FA if available. Not one team in the playoffs is solely draft and develop or solely acquiring FAs.
- RustyPipes

It's really about timing in my opinion. I think you supplement and fill some remaining holes with trading some of the future and using free agency when you feel you're that one player away. I don't see the team being there yet. Too young in too many areas. Needs can change depending on how you draft and develop.

You're wrong. What I've said is that it is about timing. I don't think now is the time for going after big money free agents. What I haven't said is that the team should never make a trade or sign a free agent.

Hextall has set this team up. A lack of patience from management in seeing through what they started and what they wanted when Hextall was hired is what got him fired.
- MJL

So hextall has no blame in getting himself fired ?

It's really about timing in my opinion. I think you supplement and fill some remaining holes with trading some of the future and using free agency when you feel you're that one player away. I don't see the team being there yet. Too young in too many areas. Needs can change depending on how you draft and develop.
- MJL

I do think you can acquire now to help the future. You seem to leave that out of the equation. Why can't I maybe make my move now....and then when ready to move this thing forward the piece is here?

Getting a Brock Nelson this year doesn't take away from what i plan to do moving forward as he can be my piece in 19-20-21-22. Maybe I am not in bidding wars then because I did my work early.

Correct. So for a guy like Patrick next year, unless he breaks out, we could get him on a bridge, maybe a 2 year/4.5 mil contract. For Provy this year though, I would hope something like 6 years/48 mil. With a guy like Lindblom if his development arc stays the same, i could see something like 5 years/20 mil. However, a 2.5 mil AAV and a 4 mil AAV, allows for a big UFA or two. I'm not saying litter the team with UFA's, we don't need that many. But signing one or two, and maybe the second one isn't a large overpay, maybe its an under the radar signing, but either way I think there are several guys out there that will be signed to large contracts that can absolutely help this team immediately and fills immediate needs:

Panarin (bonafide scorer)
Duchene (solidify 2C)
Pavelski (solidify 2C or 1RW)
Edler (vet dman)
Nyquist (scorers ilk)
Kronwall (vet dman)
Jumbo Joe (2C)

I would only really break the bank for the top three, but all would help this team, albeit for the right price. Everything leads back to the right price.
- sjk540

Huge pass on Kronwall. Edler would be acceptable on a short deal

It's really about timing in my opinion. I think you supplement and fill some remaining holes with trading some of the future and using free agency when you feel you're that one player away. I don't see the team being there yet. Too young in too many areas. Needs can change depending on how you draft and develop.
- MJL

Sounds like a reasonable strategy however, with the win today mentality waiting to see the younger players truly blossom may not come into play when holes to fill now are there. I don't believe that we need a "vet dman", but a decent bonafide center would be welcome.

Sanheim, Konecny, Hart, Lindblom and Myers will all eventually need new deals. I can't understand why some think that Provorov is worth 8M a year. That would be a horrendous deal for the Flyers in my opinion.
- MJL

I see Provorov around what Hamilton got in Calgary. 6 years at maybe 6.255 per?

And I am not sure you'll get a ton of bridge deals on guys. Teams seem to be signing their top guys for longer recently.

Like I could see:
Sanheim at 5 years @ 4.5 per.
Konecny 4 years @ 5 per
Lindblom 3 years @ 3.5 per

I do think you can acquire now to help the future. You seem to leave that out of the equation. Why can't I maybe make my move now....and then when ready to move this thing forward the piece is here?

Getting a Brock Nelson this year doesn't take away from what i plan to do moving forward as he can be my piece in 19-20-21-22. Maybe I am not in bidding wars then because I did my work early.
- J35Bacher

What if Patrick breaks out and In a year or two, Frost is ready? What if you sign Nelson and over pay in free agency and he struggles and then you can't find a taker in a trade. In the mean time an area of the team did not fill in as you suspected, such as needing a winger or a defenseman. Combined with young players taking up more cap space and bad UFA signings, you lack cap flexibility and have to give up a quality asset to gain space. This is all hypothetical but again, I believe the best way is to do it in steps. I don't believe now is the time to spend big in free agency.

That is not the same as saying that it can't or won't work or that it can't or won't make the team better. I've said previously what is the goal? Just to get better?

Huge pass on Kronwall. Edler would be acceptable on a short deal
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Edler is kind of interesting. I think he could be a solid add if he leaves Vancouver. Maybe a 3 year deal.

What if Patrick breaks out and In a year or two, Frost is ready? What if you sign Nelson and over pay in free agency and he struggles and then you can't find a taker in a trade. In the mean time an area of the team did not fill in as you suspected, such as needing a winger or a defenseman. Combined with young players taking up more cap space and bad UFA signings, you lack cap flexibility and have to give up a quality asset to gain space. This is all hypothetical but again, I believe the best way is to do it in steps. I don't believe now is the time to spend big in free agency.

That is not the same as saying that it can't or won't work or that it can't or won't make the team better. I've said previously what is the goal? Just to get better?
- MJL

Why can't I move a guy like Voracek to help create cap flexibility then? If the core is changing why can't I move a Giroux or van Riemsdyk.

As pieces come together and develop I start to transition out some other expensive pieces.

Sanheim, Konecny, Hart, Lindblom and Myers will all eventually need new deals. I can't understand why some think that Provorov is worth 8M a year. That would be a horrendous deal for the Flyers in my opinion.
- MJL

Right, thats my bad, got the multiples mixed up. Meant 8 years at 48 million, for an AAV of 6 million.

Of course they will all need new deals, but you will have the cap space next year, the year after for all of them, while still being able to sign an UFA for a big amount. for example, signing Duchene to a 6 year, 48 mil contract, there will be plenty of cap space this year for Sanheim, Konecny, and Provy. And for next year for Patrick, Lindblom, and Myers. The following year with Raffl and Gudas off the books, will have space for Hart

Hextall has set this team up. A lack of patience from management in seeing through what they started and what they wanted when Hextall was hired is what got him fired.
- MJL

I know we are going to disagree on this but to me Hexy plays a role in his being let go.


To quote Jocko Willink “There are no bad teams, only bad leaders"

I'm also a firm believer is the principal of Extreme Ownership so to imply that Hextall was fired because of other people lacking patience doesn't ring true to me..

Hexy did some great things but he did those great things at the expense of the on ice product short term IMO and ultimately business is a results driven endeavor.

I see Provorov around what Hamilton got in Calgary. 6 years at maybe 6.255 per?

And I am not sure you'll get a ton of bridge deals on guys. Teams seem to be signing their top guys for longer recently.

Like I could see:
Sanheim at 5 years @ 4.5 per.
Konecny 4 years @ 5 per
Lindblom 3 years @ 3.5 per
- J35Bacher

I think you're a little high on Sanheim, I would expect anywhere between 3m and 4m.

Others look good though, I think Konecny is fair but I think they also may try a 5th, or 6th year, to keep the AAV under 5. He's young so you can take the risk.

Why can't I move a guy like Voracek to help create cap flexibility then? If the core is changing why can't I move a Giroux or van Riemsdyk.

As pieces come together and develop I start to transition out some other expensive pieces.
- J35Bacher

Moving a guy like Voracek opens up another hole.

Moving a guy like Voracek opens up another hole.
- MJL

Not if your guys are developing.

I think you're a little high on Sanheim, I would expect anywhere between 3m and 4m.

Others look good though, I think Konecny is fair but I think they also may try a 5th, or 6th year, to keep the AAV under 5. He's young so you can take the risk.
- sjk540

I don't see Sanheim being less then Gostisbehere. i think he showed he will be a top 4 guy for this team now and the future.

Not if your guys are developing.
- J35Bacher

Of the young players developing who has the dynamic ability of Voracek?
I would say TK is the closest but even thats a bit of a different style.

Everybody is very quick to trade Ghost but I think that may be a mistake. Sure, he had a down year but what he brings offensively especially on the PP is not easy to replace. Sanheim can, I guess but dont think he can reach Ghost's level especially from two years ago.

Provorov
Sanheim
Ghost
Gudas
Myers
Hagg
Morin

If we are to replace one of them with a veteran D, I would rather replace Gudas even though he had a good season with Hagg being the 7th.

I know we are going to disagree on this but to me Hexy plays a role in his being let go.


To quote Jocko Willink “There are no bad teams, only bad leaders"

I'm also a firm believer is the principal of Extreme Ownership so to imply that Hextall was fired because of other people lacking patience doesn't ring true to me..

Hexy did some great things but he did those great things at the expense of the on ice product short term IMO and ultimately business is a results driven endeavor.
- opeth_pa

I don't think Hextall was perfect and he made some mistakes but none of those mistakes add up to being worthy of being fired in my opinion. We've had this discussion many times previously. Hextall was hired to build the team and take the team in a different direction. They knew what he was going to do and he never wavered from his plan. There is no question that management impatience is why he was fired in my opinion.