Our younger players are just fine. Eichel hasn’t forgotten how to win because he’s forced to carry an entire team on his back. If anything he might be better for it once he has a team around him.
- Pegullaville

I like eichel as much as most on here.

He was gripping the stick a bit tight and didn't get hot until after we were pretty much eliminated.

4 years of losing for eichel now.

Our younger players are just fine. Eichel hasn’t forgotten how to win because he’s forced to carry an entire team on his back. If anything he might be better for it once he has a team around him.
- Pegullaville

Players talk about confidence being a huge factor in how well you play

U really don’t think that when you’ve been winning- actually “dominating” for most of our young talent- their whole lives,
and then they come to a situation where they’re losing year after year after year...
u don’t think that’s gonna have a negative affect

And to make it worse...
you want the organization to TRY TO LOSE ON PURPOSE

Seriously...
if you were Jack, how would u feel if next season u knew the plan was to tank?

And please...
don’t say you’d be ok with it bc you’d KNOW (you wouldn’t “know”) that losing on purpose would DEFINITELY get a us a player in the draft that’ll end up helping in a year, or 2, or 5...
Great Pro Athletes DO NOT think like that
They want to win every shift, every period, every game

And if it’s coming down from up above that they’re trying to lose on purpose...
you’d better bet that’s gonna have a disheartening affect

The only think that continuing to try & lose will do is create Losers out of our young Core

Winners WIN
And that’s what we need to start doing

Here's what this post does: it mentions the playoff experience of a lot of non-core guys. Then it recognizes that we have to acquire better supporting help, but inaccurately suggests the only way to get there is picking Top 5.

There are better ways to do this than losing intentionally and destroying the confidence of the core. Losing intentionally and destroying the confidence of the core MIGHT acquire us one talented contributor who MIGHT be able to contribute in the next year or two.

Identifying meaningful IMMEDIATE contributors, and acquiring them through trading picks and prospects, provides greater benefit to the team, and involves less risk of irreparable harm to the psyche of the core.

And, don't tell us that it's impossible to identify meaningful immediate contributors and acquire them with picks/prospects. Because Skinner and Montour prove it can be done twice in the same year.

EDIT: and if mittlestat and Dahlin have to turn 21 before they can contribute, doesn't that mean that the new guy has to be 21 also???? so now we're talking about help that won't even show up for 3 more years, by which time our core will be a group of burned out husks who need to be replaced altogether, so we will need to tank for a new core.
- Der Kaiser

Who is losing intentionally?
Is it Jack? is it Sam? Dahlin? Montour? Skinner?
From on ice play, one could make the argument for Risto losing on purpose.
Is Botts whispering in the young core's ear...listen boys, it's the end of November, but it would be great to sh¡t the bed for the next 3-1/2 months
Like Risto, Housley might be guilty in being way in over his head, maybe he is purposely driving the tank.

It is a fans reaction to seeing the positive out of a loss that a below average roster produces.
Lack of talent, not intentional.

I hate the losing, sick of it. But to pin it on a fan who rightly wants his team to be better longterm...I don't get it.
Like Jack Sam and Dahlin are on here!

Players talk about confidence being a huge factor in how well you play

U really don’t think that when you’ve been winning- actually “dominating” for most of our young talent- their whole lives,
and then they come to a situation where they’re losing year after year after year...
u don’t think that’s gonna have a negative affect

And to make it worse...
you want the organization to TRY TO LOSE ON PURPOSE

Seriously...
if you were Jack, how would u feel if next season u knew the plan was to tank?

And please...
don’t say you’d be ok with it bc you’d KNOW (you wouldn’t “know”) that losing on purpose would DEFINITELY get a us a player in the draft that’ll end up helping in a year, or 2, or 5...
Great Pro Athletes DO NOT think like that
They want to win every shift, every period, every game

And if it’s coming down from up above that they’re trying to lose on purpose...
you’d better bet that’s gonna have a disheartening affect

The only think that continuing to try & lose will do is create Losers out of our young Core

Winners WIN
And that’s what we need to start doing
- jdfitz77

You too?
Holy crap.

Our younger players are just fine. Eichel hasn’t forgotten how to win because he’s forced to carry an entire team on his back. If anything he might be better for it once he has a team around him.
- Pegullaville

Wth has Eichel ever won? Dude did a disappearing act in the Frozen Four Championship game. Eichelfeld. I’m just sayin. Besides, by your logic, he still lost so what would it matter if he didn’t even get out of his region?

While I’m at it, still waiting for the Dahlin game. Be nice to see the alleged generational d man take over a game. I’d settle for end to end and goal. Let’s see it. All flash and no finish so far. He’ll be lucky to get Myers goals and assists from rookie year. I’m just sayin.

Players talk about confidence being a huge factor in how well you play

U really don’t think that when you’ve been winning- actually “dominating” for most of our young talent- their whole lives,
and then they come to a situation where they’re losing year after year after year...
u don’t think that’s gonna have a negative affect

And to make it worse...
you want the organization to TRY TO LOSE ON PURPOSE

Seriously...
if you were Jack, how would u feel if next season u knew the plan was to tank?

And please...
don’t say you’d be ok with it bc you’d KNOW (you wouldn’t “know”) that losing on purpose would DEFINITELY get a us a player in the draft that’ll end up helping in a year, or 2, or 5...
Great Pro Athletes DO NOT think like that
They want to win every shift, every period, every game

And if it’s coming down from up above that they’re trying to lose on purpose...
you’d better bet that’s gonna have a disheartening affect

The only think that continuing to try & lose will do is create Losers out of our young Core

Winners WIN
And that’s what we need to start doing
- jdfitz77

Good post

Eichel and others aren't going to affect their future earnings and reputation by losing on purpose.

Ownership and management need to really move forward.

I really (hope) they are trying to get this one last kick at the can. I'd rather look at it that way, then the coming to grips with losing because we are terrible

Players talk about confidence being a huge factor in how well you play

U really don’t think that when you’ve been winning- actually “dominating” for most of our young talent- their whole lives,
and then they come to a situation where they’re losing year after year after year...
u don’t think that’s gonna have a negative affect

And to make it worse...
you want the organization to TRY TO LOSE ON PURPOSE

Seriously...
if you were Jack, how would u feel if next season u knew the plan was to tank?

And please...
don’t say you’d be ok with it bc you’d KNOW (you wouldn’t “know”) that losing on purpose would DEFINITELY get a us a player in the draft that’ll end up helping in a year, or 2, or 5...
Great Pro Athletes DO NOT think like that
They want to win every shift, every period, every game

And if it’s coming down from up above that they’re trying to lose on purpose...
you’d better bet that’s gonna have a disheartening affect

The only think that continuing to try & lose will do is create Losers out of our young Core

Winners WIN
And that’s what we need to start doing
- jdfitz77

Go back and listen to Eichel’s quotes about Mittelstadt and Dahlin this last offseason and tell me how discouraged he sounded about playing with those two. What if we get lottery luck again and get Kakko or Hughes ? This past season of losing will be in the rear view mirror and long forgotten. Get a coach with some nuts and add some vets who can play and we are off to the races. Even if we have to wait a year for a Turcotte/Zegras/Cozens/Boldy/Podkolzin we can make the necessary FA adds or trades to get us a first round playoff exit next year to get the kids some “playoff experience.” Then we add another young stud the following year who will be insulted and be in a position to succeed.

Who is losing intentionally?
Is it Jack? is it Sam? Dahlin? Montour? Skinner?
From on ice play, one could make the argument for Risto losing on purpose.
Is Botts whispering in the young core's ear...listen boys, it's the end of November, but it would be great to sh¡t the bed for the next 3-1/2 months
Like Risto, Housley might be guilty in being way in over his head, maybe he is purposely driving the tank.

It is a fans reaction to seeing the positive out of a loss that a below average roster produces.
Lack of talent, not intentional.

I hate the losing, sick of it. But to pin it on a fan who rightly wants his team to be better longterm...I don't get it.
Like Jack Sam and Dahlin are on here!

- IonSabres

Tanking is, very literally, losing intentionally. That's what we're arguing about here.

And I think what we're discussing is the best way to get the team to be better long term, not whether that's the goal.

Who is losing intentionally?
Is it Jack? is it Sam? Dahlin? Montour? Skinner?
From on ice play, one could make the argument for Risto losing on purpose.
Is Botts whispering in the young core's ear...listen boys, it's the end of November, but it would be great to sh¡t the bed for the next 3-1/2 months
Like Risto, Housley might be guilty in being way in over his head, maybe he is purposely driving the tank.

It is a fans reaction to seeing the positive out of a loss that a below average roster produces.
Lack of talent, not intentional.

I hate the losing, sick of it. But to pin it on a fan who rightly wants his team to be better longterm...I don't get it.
Like Jack Sam and Dahlin are on here!

- IonSabres

I'm with you ion

Players do not tank.

Phil though might be following orders from above

There have been some serious problems this year with line ups and some really odd choices.

Especially if phil is back next year

I wonder if Patty Kane, Johnathen Toews, Anze Kopitar and Drew Doughty have forgotten how to win since they are going on their 2nd year of missing the playoffs or is it because their respective supporting casts are hot garbage ? P.Kane is having the best regular season of his whole career.
- Pegullaville

Dahlin is ruined I tell you

https://twitter.com/mocke.../1105282042785382402?s=21

Who is losing intentionally?
Is it Jack? is it Sam? Dahlin? Montour? Skinner?
From on ice play, one could make the argument for Risto losing on purpose.
Is Botts whispering in the young core's ear...listen boys, it's the end of November, but it would be great to sh¡t the bed for the next 3-1/2 months
Like Risto, Housley might be guilty in being way in over his head, maybe he is purposely driving the tank.

It is a fans reaction to seeing the positive out of a loss that a below average roster produces.
Lack of talent, not intentional.

I hate the losing, sick of it. But to pin it on a fan who rightly wants his team to be better longterm...I don't get it.
Like Jack Sam and Dahlin are on here!

- IonSabres

Pegulaville wants the Sabres to tank,
even next year

Tanking is losing on purpose

No one is saying our PLAYERS are trying to lose

Pegulaville is saying that MANAGEMENT should NOT be adding players to make us better

He’s saying that management should be actively trying to put a team on the ice next year that will lose... and lose... and lose...
so that we can pick in the Top5

Tanking is, very literally, losing intentionally. That's what we're arguing about here.

And I think what we're discussing is the best way to get the team to be better long term, not whether that's the goal.
- Der Kaiser

So then I guess we all would agree the Sabres are not tanking...no one is losing on purpose.
In fact, whatever player is giving up on a consistent basis...they should be gone IMO.
And the leaders, the core should be driving the rest to play to win, show pride.
We probably all agree to that as well.

But jumping on a fan for seeing the brightside when they lose. Petty.
I don't see him rooting for a loss, just pointing out that with that loss, they just inched closer to a higher pick.
Big friggin deal.

Who is losing intentionally?
Is it Jack? is it Sam? Dahlin? Montour? Skinner?
From on ice play, one could make the argument for Risto losing on purpose.
Is Botts whispering in the young core's ear...listen boys, it's the end of November, but it would be great to sh¡t the bed for the next 3-1/2 months
Like Risto, Housley might be guilty in being way in over his head, maybe he is purposely driving the tank.

It is a fans reaction to seeing the positive out of a loss that a below average roster produces.
Lack of talent, not intentional.

I hate the losing, sick of it. But to pin it on a fan who rightly wants his team to be better longterm...I don't get it.
Like Jack Sam and Dahlin are on here!

- IonSabres

It’s like Pittsburgh and Chicago weren’t terrible for a stretch of time in the early 2000’s or something. This fan base would rather settle for playoff appearances then a cup ring I guess. Buffalo has the 8th most successful regular season record of all time, several playoff appearances, but how many rings ? The fact this fan base can’t remain patient for one or two more losing seasons in order to put together a team like the ones that made it to the ECF those couple times in the 2000’s are just as toxic as the supposed “losing core”. I can’t seem to find the printed logo Sabre t-shirts that say playoff finalists 2009-2010 or 2010-2011. I really miss those first round knockouts to the Bruins and Flyers. We haven’t fielded a team since 2006/2007, I believe that tanking gives us a roster reminiscent of that. Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, and another high end pick this year is the start of something great.

Go back and listen to Eichel’s quotes about Mittelstadt and Dahlin this last offseason and tell me how discouraged he sounded about playing with those two. What if we get lottery luck again and get Kakko or Hughes ? This past season of losing will be in the rear view mirror and long forgotten. Get a coach with some nuts and add some vets who can play and we are off to the races. Even if we have to wait a year for a Turcotte/Zegras/Cozens/Boldy/Podkolzin we can make the necessary FA adds or trades to get us a first round playoff exit next year to get the kids some “playoff experience.” Then we add another young stud the following year who will be insulted and be in a position to succeed.
- Pegullaville

1) which is it...
try for the playoffs next year?
or tank again next year?
You’re flip-flopping

2) will whoever we pick this year be helping MAKE A DIFFERENCE in year 2?
Is Mittelstadt in his year2?
Is Nylander in his year3?

3) You’re making assumptions based on the best possible outcome
And even if it’s correct, and Krebs (or whoever) is a stud for us in his 2nd year...
are we good enough to compete with Tampa for the Cup?
Nope
So by what you’ve been saying...
we should be tanking again, and again, and again

NO ATHLETE WANTS TO BE PART OF AN ORGANIZATION THAT’S TRYING TO LOSE

I'm with you ion

Players do not tank.

Phil though might be following orders from above

There have been some serious problems this year with line ups and some really odd choices.

Especially if phil is back next year
- Boss34

His decision are mindboggling indeed.
I have very serious doubts there are directions from above to tank. I just don't see it.

I do think that Botts has been very conservative with respect to in season trades...
On purpose, yes...to lose? I doubt it...more like letting the core build character in taking responsibility, for having enough of losing, getting pissed...pushing back.
Might also be one of the best things they can learn...kick it into overdrive before you look upstairs for a bailout.
Development comes from losing as well as from winning...it 8s ugly and uncomfortable, but true.

Pegulaville wants the Sabres to tank,
even next year

Tanking is losing on purpose

No one is saying our PLAYERS are trying to lose

Pegulaville is saying that MANAGEMENT should NOT be adding players to make us better

He’s saying that management should be actively trying to put a team on the ice next year that will lose... and lose... and lose...
so that we can pick in the Top5
- jdfitz77

I never said they had to tank next year. I said this year was a perfect year for the wheels to fall of the bus since this roster is very flawed. I’d expect Botts to make the necessary changes to make the jump next year. This offseason I expected us to finish 4th in the Atlantic and battle for the 2nd wildcard spot. When it became apparent our supporting cast was hot garbage and our 10 game winning streak the most pure luck I’ve ever witnessed, I cheered for losses as a top 10 pick is much better then overachieving and getting kicked out in round 1. How do we know Botts doesn’t add Duchene in FA after selecting top 5 ? Or add a Dzingel and Hayes ? Or a Nyquist and Eberle ? There are moves that can be made “AFTER THE SEASON” that have no detriment to whether or not we lose a playoff series to the lightning in 5 games or select top 5. The trades fans wanted to make on this board during the season were offseason moves. Heck the fact he got Montour in-season shocked more then a few experts. Picking anywhere in the top 10 this year gives us a better chance to win a cup someday then a few playoff games and that was my opinion. If this team shows no sign of hope again by January 1st, id once again rather pick top 10 then be the Flyers surging to mediocrity barring a lucky lotto win. However I’ll reserve my judgement for next season when we cross that bridge.

His decision are mindboggling indeed.
I have very serious doubts there are directions from above to tank. I just don't see it.

I do think that Botts has been very conservative with respect to in season trades...
On purpose, yes...to lose? I doubt it...more like letting the core build character in taking responsibility, for having enough of losing, getting pissed...pushing back.
Might also be one of the best things they can learn...kick it into overdrive before you look upstairs for a bailout.
Development comes from losing as well as from winning...it 8s ugly and uncomfortable, but true.
- IonSabres

Right
But Pegulaville is saying there SHOULD BE

That’s what we are arguing about

Yes, at this point we want the best pick we can get in this year’s draft

But NO... we do not want management trying to lose on purpose anymore

Especially next year & beyond
Which is what Pegulaville has been saying

Pegulaville wants the Sabres to tank,
even next year

Tanking is losing on purpose

No one is saying our PLAYERS are trying to lose

Pegulaville is saying that MANAGEMENT should NOT be adding players to make us better

He’s saying that management should be actively trying to put a team on the ice next year that will lose... and lose... and lose...
so that we can pick in the Top5
- jdfitz77

I think his reference was to the Bolts beating the tar out of the Leafs at the time of his post...with the Leafs recognized as a contending team...as in, boy the Sabres have miles to go to be able to seriously consider playing in the same universen as the Bolts ( might need to tank for 10 years, lol)
That was my takeaway anyway.

I think his reference was to the Bolts beating the tar out of the Leafs at the time of his post...with the Leafs recognized as a contending team...as in, boy the Sabres have miles to go to be able to seriously consider playing in the same universen as the Bolts ( might need to tank for 10 years, lol)
That was my takeaway anyway.
- IonSabres

This as well.

I never said they had to tank next year. I said this year was a perfect year for the wheels to fall of the bus since this roster is very flawed. I’d expect Botts to make the necessary changes to make the jump next year. This offseason I expected us to finish 4th in the Atlantic and battle for the 2nd wildcard spot. When it beamed apparent our supporting cast was hot garbage and our 10 game winning streak the most pure luck I’ve ever witnessed, I cheered for losses as t top pick is much better then overachieving and getting whipped out in round 1. How do we know Botts doesn’t add Duchene in FA after selecting top 5 ? Or add a Dzingel and Hayes ? Or a Nyquist and Eberle ? There are moves that can be made “AFTER THE SEASON” that have no detriment to whether or not we lose a playoff series to the lightning in 5 games or select top 5. The trades fans wanted to make on this board during the season were offseason moves. Heck the fact he got Montour in-season shocked more then a few experts. Picking anywhere in the top 10 this year gives us a better chance to win a cup someday then a few playoff games and that was my opinion. If this team shows no sign of hope again by January 1st, id once again rather pick top 10 then be the Flyers surging to mediocrity barring a lucky lotto win. However I’ll reserve my judgement for next season when we cross that bridge.
- Pegullaville

You said we should tank until we have enough talent to compete for the Cup

The problem we are having is with your continued idea that we should lose on purpose

There is no obvious generational pick that we are gonna get 8th (or whatever) like when we (the organization) were tanking for McEichel,
or when we (the fans) were giving up last year so we’d have the best shot at a generational talent in Dahlin

Yeah, of course it’s statistically better if we pick 8th instead of 12th this year
But I’m still not watching games hoping we lose
You go ahead & cheer when Dallas scores tomorrow night
The overwhelming majority of us still wanna see our team win

Enough of your “tank on” bullish!t though
Seriously dude
Enough is enough

I think his reference was to the Bolts beating the tar out of the Leafs at the time of his post...with the Leafs recognized as a contending team...as in, boy the Sabres have miles to go to be able to seriously consider playing in the same universen as the Bolts ( might need to tank for 10 years, lol)
That was my takeaway anyway.
- IonSabres

Well you 2 can both cheer when Dallas scores tomorrow night
Have fun with that


This is not an obvious McEichel or Dahlin situation
It’s a Krebs, or Turcotte, or Cousins, or etc etc etc player who we could pick (idk, 6th?) instead of basically getting a player in the same talent range a handful of picks later

I’ll be over here rooting for my team
Not against them

It’s like Pittsburgh and Chicago weren’t terrible for a stretch of time in the early 2000’s or something. This fan base would rather settle for playoff appearances then a cup ring I guess. Buffalo has the 8th most successful regular season record of all time, several playoff appearances, but how many rings ? The fact this fan base can’t remain patient for one or two more losing seasons in order to put together a team like the ones that made it to the ECF those couple times in the 2000’s are just as toxic as the supposed “losing core”. I can’t seem to find the printed logo Sabre t-shirts that say playoff finalists 2009-2010 or 2010-2011. I really miss those first round knockouts to the Bruins and Flyers. We haven’t fielded a team since 2006/2007, I believe that tanking gives us a roster reminiscent of that. Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, and another high end pick this year is the start of something great.
- Pegullaville

Someone find the printed Sabres t-shirts of 2010 and 2011. First round exits for life. No need to tank. We don’t need Hughes. Bring back ROR and continue the cup drought. Heck Eichel, Dahlin, Reinahrt should be traded as they were a bi-product of tanking. We don’t need them.

Someone find the printed Sabres t-shirts of 2010 and 2011. First round exits for life. No need to tank. We don’t need Hughes. Bring back ROR and continue the cup drought. Heck Eichel, Dahlin, Reinahrt should be traded as they were a bi-product of tanking. We don’t need them.
- Pegullaville

Just go back to whining about Matthews,
ok?

Wth has Eichel ever won? Dude did a disappearing act in the Frozen Four Championship game. Eichelfeld. I’m just sayin. Besides, by your logic, he still lost so what would it matter if he didn’t even get out of his region?

While I’m at it, still waiting for the Dahlin game. Be nice to see the alleged generational d man take over a game. I’d settle for end to end and goal. Let’s see it. All flash and no finish so far. He’ll be lucky to get Myers goals and assists from rookie year. I’m just sayin.
- Hatboro_Swords

Myers played his rookie season on a 100 point team that won the Northeast. What do you think he would've gotten on this team? What do you think Dahlin would have gotten on that team?