Yes I was a goalie, that's where my love of defensive defenders comes from.

Your description does a better job than my rant at explaining my point. I dont like free wheeling in the defensive zone, I would be curious to see how many scoring chances are generated both ways on high risk plays in the defensive zone. Im sure most coaches have no patience for it at all, but a player like Malkin needs to walk the fine line I understand that and promote it. I just wouldn't put him on the ice in the dying minutes if you dont need a goal. I dont think he can help himself, he is score.
- stackthepads

Hahaha oh I’m with you. He’s not the guy that I put in trying to hold a lead either hahaha I agree with ya there. I do believe there is a place for defensive defensmen. Personally I think the majority (not saying you, but the majority of hockey people) think that certain players are defensive defensemen when they’re just bad at hockey hahah

Hahaha oh I’m with you. He’s not the guy that I put in trying to hold a lead either hahaha I agree with ya there. I do believe there is a place for defensive defensmen. Personally I think the majority (not saying you, but the majority of hockey people) think that certain players are defensive defensemen when they’re just bad at hockey hahah
- j.boyd919

Im guilty of thinking some players who are bad at hockey are good. Well no one in the NHL is bad at hockey, but the game has past alot of player by, the speed/skill is too much for some of the older guys.

That said, I am curious how the NHL will develop, this speed skill game is still new its really a byproduct of the 2016 Pens cup team. But just 5-6 years ago big grinding players were in fashion.

Let me pose a hypothetical to you.

How do you think the current player (fast, skilled, not much contact) would be able to cope having to play against a modern Broad Street Bullies team?

I think Geno is grossly underrated defensively. Turnovers are not a symptom of bad defense. The top offensive producers in the game commit the most turnovers because they take the most chances.
- Rinosaur

I don't think he is underrated defensively. He is a beast on guys with the puck and has the potential to be a great two way player.

The biggest problem for him is putting in a consistent effort. He will have one shift where he chases a guy down, takes him off the puck and turns it back the other way beautifully. Next shift he will hit a post or turn the puck over, do his little mopey thing and then just trot back to the defensive end.

Im not dogging him and saying he should abandon offence and put all of his focus on D. I just get frustrated watching him sometimes because he is such a dominant force both offensively and defensively when his head is in the game.

No. It was no prerequisite, because I don’t believe you have to have played hockey to understand it. That’s retarded logic.

It was a question to segue into a conversation about playing on a hockey team with a poopty hockey player who brings everything down, because I know that when I’m playing hockey and I’m on the ice with specific players, I know how my production suffers and there’s literally nothing I can do about it because one person on the ice has zero hockey IQ, has zero hands, skates with his head down, doesn’t know position, etc. We have one linemate where plays go to die and it happens countless times a game.

This was more for the JJ affecting Forwards conversation and I was just curious if you’ve ever had that affect your game, if you played.
- j.boyd919

So I am with you on having a guy that sucks out there and how much harder it can make being productive.

I just want you to think about some of your comments in terms of context. Specifically the zero iq and not knowing position. See, that to me describes how Kessel is in his own zone. Never in position and will never make an effort to chip in and battle on the boards.

What it all boils down to for me is that we know the Pens have a weak D group. That's why systems are so important, so weaker players can know where to go and simplify the decision making process. So when Kessel is floating around, way out of position in his own zone, it's actually him burying himself when they get stuck in their zone. It's naive to think that Kessel bares no blame in his own struggles.

Im guilty of thinking some players who are bad at hockey are good. Well no one in the NHL is bad at hockey, but the game has past alot of player by, the speed/skill is too much for some of the older guys.

That said, I am curious how the NHL will develop, this speed skill game is still new its really a byproduct of the 2016 Pens cup team. But just 5-6 years ago big grinding players were in fashion.

Let me pose a hypothetical to you.

How do you think the current player (fast, skilled, not much contact) would be able to cope having to play against a modern Broad Street Bullies team?
- stackthepads

In my opinion a mix of the two is best. Not even talking about an enforcer although I think the one enforcer left in the game has more points than our entire fourth line.

In my opinion a mix of the two is best. Not even talking about an enforcer although I think the one enforcer left in the game has more points than our entire fourth line.
- Grinder47

Ryan Reaves has 17 points.... Matt Cullen has 17 points...

Ryan Reaves has 17 points.... Matt Cullen has 17 points...
- MattStrat

I don’t look up stats. It’s boring. Good for Reaves though.

Oh I understand that. I was just laughing at your whole “stats are a crutch” statement. I’m well aware what PKs and PPs do. I’ve discussed both systems on this blog numerous times. Not just the Pens systems but also other teams comparing and how the Pens could borrow from other systems I’ve seen with, gasp, my eyes. So you’re whole crutch statement is still pretty inaccurate.
- j.boyd919

You were saying the Pens have problems when teams have one guy chasing up high on the pk, forcing them to continually pass the puck around. In my opinion the Pens PP doesn’t have a shooter. Sure we all want to see it go to Malkin for the one timer but I don’t think the Pk is coached to constantly work the puck back to Malkin. Like with the Caps. Backtsrom is the reset point, everyone’s looking to get it to Ovi after that. Or when Philly just cycled the puck back to the top of the umbrella and bombed shots with guys in front. Pens PP is coached to pass it around until someone decides to shoot. Which is a bit of a problem.

You were saying the Pens have problems when teams have one guy chasing up high on the pk, forcing them to continually pass the puck around. In my opinion the Pens PK doesn’t have a shooter. Sure we all want to see it go to Malkin for the one timer but I don’t think the Pk is coached to constantly work the puck back to Malkin. Like with the Caps. Backtsrom is the reset point, everyone’s looking to get it to Ovi after that. Or when Philly just cycled the puck back to the top of the umbrella and bombed shots with guys in front. Pens PP is coached to pass it around until someone decides to shoot. Which is a bit of a problem.
- Grinder47

Malkin on the PK? Man... you're insane

Defense wins more than offence. I can't think of one sport where that is not true. Sure offence gets more highlights; and in sports where defense is not the priority (basketball and football) it may look like offence wins more but the reality is defense is still king.

If you don't believe look at the top goals against in the NHL and tell me you had either one of them teams in the playoffs. Chicago is one of the best offensive teams in the game and they are in last place.

Well, look at Tampa you say, best offense in the league. They are also fourth in the league on defense.

Let me pose a hypothetical to you.

How do you think the current player (fast, skilled, not much contact) would be able to cope having to play against a modern Broad Street Bullies team?
- stackthepads

The answer depends on the rules. Are we talking about refs calling the games like they did in the 70s, today regular season or today playoffs.

It all goes back to the never ending issue with nhl refereeing. Games are called completely different depending on time of year. Hell, even worse than that, there are different rules depending on the score of the game.

The answer depends on the rules. Are we talking about refs calling the games like they did in the 70s, today regular season or today playoffs.

It all goes back to the never ending issue with nhl refereeing. Games are called completely different depending on time of year. Hell, even worse than that, there are different rules depending on the score of the game.
- MacPatty

I think if we’re refering to the bullies reffing doesn’t really matter. They would break a wrist knowing they would get tossed. Sure the team gets a pp but they also loose their best player. I like fast skilled gritty physical players around 6 ‘ and 200 lbs.

Ryan Reaves has 17 points.... Matt Cullen has 17 points...
- MattStrat

Then why bring them up to suit your narrative, especially if they're wrong?

Then why bring them up to suit your narrative, especially if they're wrong?
- MattStrat

...I think I answered my own question here...

Malkin on the PK? Man... you're insane
- Guile

Mike Johnston did it towards the end and it was the one good thing he did. Malkin on the PK was awesome.

Mike Johnston did it towards the end and it was the one good thing he did. Malkin on the PK was awesome.
- Victoro311

I do remember that too. He's so good at anticipating plays and has a good reach.

Mike Johnston did it towards the end and it was the one good thing he did. Malkin on the PK was awesome.
- Victoro311

It's awesome but it's also playing with fire. Last thing you need is Sid or geno breaking their foot blocking a shot. I especially like it in the last 20-30 seconds of the powerplay though.

You were saying the Pens have problems when teams have one guy chasing up high on the pk, forcing them to continually pass the puck around. In my opinion the Pens PP doesn’t have a shooter. Sure we all want to see it go to Malkin for the one timer but I don’t think the Pk is coached to constantly work the puck back to Malkin. Like with the Caps. Backtsrom is the reset point, everyone’s looking to get it to Ovi after that. Or when Philly just cycled the puck back to the top of the umbrella and bombed shots with guys in front. Pens PP is coached to pass it around until someone decides to shoot. Which is a bit of a problem.
- Grinder47

I completely agree. I don’t think the Pens have a primary threat on their PP. Whether it’s Phil walking in off the half wall or Genos one timer, I wish they would make a distinct primary threat, but they don’t. I do agree that their PP tends to pass it around. That’s why I wish the Pens would work the triangle on Phil’s side of the ice much like the Caps do with Backstrom/Oshie/Kuzy before trying to get the puck back over to Ovi for the one timer. It would spread the PKers out and make them “forget” about Ovi because you have to respect that puck movement on Phil’s side of the ice with Sid down low and Kessel on the half wall

Edit: let me correct myself. If they were to play that triangle on the opposite side of Geno it would require a left hand shot on the slot so I would imagine that to be Guentzel but I also understand how important Hornqvist is to the PP in front of the net so I’m not sure if it would work as well.

I agree about Poile. But since I don't like Nashville I'm only too happy to see him make these moves. He git rid of some good young players. Hartman has grit and some skill upside. Boyle's not the worst pick up. But Simmonds isn't worth it and trading Fiala for Grundland is a short-sighted mistake, though he did well because if I'm the wild I'd want a pick 3rd rd or higher to offset a player who has shown regression versus a solid two way producer at a decent contract that gives you two bites at the apple.

But how does Boston move Donato for Coyle? That's a terrible trade for Boston. Donato's underlying numbers show his usage is more of a problem versus Coyle who costs more, is older and and has worse underlying numbers. That has to be Nino-effect. The Nino trade was terrible by the Wild. Boston's GM must have assumed Coyle was a better player a la Nino. Coyle might be better than he showed but that's more a gamble as Nino has been really good for a long while but not ever given rope to reach those heights fully.

So I am with you on having a guy that sucks out there and how much harder it can make being productive.

I just want you to think about some of your comments in terms of context. Specifically the zero iq and not knowing position. See, that to me describes how Kessel is in his own zone. Never in position and will never make an effort to chip in and battle on the boards.

What it all boils down to for me is that we know the Pens have a weak D group. That's why systems are so important, so weaker players can know where to go and simplify the decision making process. So when Kessel is floating around, way out of position in his own zone, it's actually him burying himself when they get stuck in their zone. It's naive to think that Kessel bares no blame in his own struggles.
- MacPatty

I don’t really think he floats around out of position as much as you think he does. As one of the wingers, depending on what side of the puck is on, he’s supposed to float around. If the Pens gain control of the puck in the defensive zone on the oppposite side of the ice as Kessel, he should be floating to the middle of the ice to provide an outlet instead of staying on the RW boards. If the player meant to pass to Kessel at the top of the zone for an exit fails to do so (which happens a lot Depending on forecheck pressure), he gets caught in no man land and has to scramble to get back to position and can often look like he’s out of position when in reality he was doing the right thing.

In terms of winning board battles, the only time he should be battling on the boards is when the puck goes to the point where he’s covering. He shouldn’t be downlow unless that Dman pinches. And let’s be real, if you’ve ever played with a wet noodle (60-70 flex) you know how difficult it can be to win a board battle with a heavier twig.

Is Kessel responsible for some of his struggles? Sure. I’d say agree to some of them, but I don’t believe it’s nearly hasn’t big as you make it. He back checks, plays his position, provides an outlet, etc. just too often the team isn’t capable of getting him the puck in stride which limits how effective he is and that comes down to D is my opinion. Again, there is a reason that everyone’s shot rates suffer when JJ is on the ice. He drags everyone down. It’s a fact and I believe he holds more of the reason to his teammates struggles than guys who are ppg players.

Im guilty of thinking some players who are bad at hockey are good. Well no one in the NHL is bad at hockey, but the game has past alot of player by, the speed/skill is too much for some of the older guys.

That said, I am curious how the NHL will develop, this speed skill game is still new its really a byproduct of the 2016 Pens cup team. But just 5-6 years ago big grinding players were in fashion.

Let me pose a hypothetical to you.

How do you think the current player (fast, skilled, not much contact) would be able to cope having to play against a modern Broad Street Bullies team?
- stackthepads

Well I meant bad relative to other players in the NHL. Obviously NHL players are good at hockey but I meant relative to the rest of the minority of the population that is the NHL. Lemme get back to you on the hypothetical over lunch. I’m headed to work.

So Grinder is saying every team runs a form of the Czech Press on the PK?

Speaking of Czech, Haven’t seen much from Jagr in hockey news lately but figured you guys would want to see his new rocket of a chick.

https://instagram.com/ver...hare&igshid=15kwhupeo5r1a

Mackey stated Maatta is skating on his own again. I always find it funny when they say "skating on their own" as if prior to that there was someone helping them around the ice.

Mackey stated Maatta is skating on his own again. I always find it funny when they say "skating on their own" as if prior to that there was someone helping them around the ice.
- Rinosaur

Maatta would probably be better if someone was able to help him move on the ice