You are very emotional about this. Nobody is dragging Kessel down but himself. Like what is he doing to help out everyone else on the ice. He is playing one way hockey, lazy in his own end and will never give an effort to get the puck out of his own zone if it means he has to take physical contact. For him to be worth putting out there he needs to score at an elite level. He is not.

Why is it that no defenceman has dragged down Crosby and Jake, yet poor Kessel and Malkin are getting killed by one.
- MacPatty

So... you want to say Letang-Dumo dragged down Crosby and Jake?

Okay... you're (frank)ing stupid

You are very emotional about this. Nobody is dragging Kessel down but himself. Like what is he doing to help out everyone else on the ice. He is playing one way hockey, lazy in his own end and will never give an effort to get the puck out of his own zone if it means he has to take physical contact. For him to be worth putting out there he needs to score at an elite level. He is not.

Why is it that no defenceman has dragged down Crosby and Jake, yet poor Kessel and Malkin are getting killed by one.
- MacPatty

Kessel has always had some streakyness to him, seemed more so in TO, but I'm seeing him being in places to score but just isn't. Pucks hopping on him and what not. He'll start burying them again.

You are very emotional about this. Nobody is dragging Kessel down but himself. Like what is he doing to help out everyone else on the ice. He is playing one way hockey, lazy in his own end and will never give an effort to get the puck out of his own zone if it means he has to take physical contact. For him to be worth putting out there he needs to score at an elite level. He is not.

Why is it that no defenceman has dragged down Crosby and Jake, yet poor Kessel and Malkin are getting killed by one.
- MacPatty

I'm actually not emotional about this at all, I just gave an analysis, you are the one attaching emotion to it.

JJ actually has dragged down Crosby and Guentzel as well. 49% CF, 44% GF, 42% SCF%.

There's a difference in the way that Geno/Kessel play the game than Sid/Guentzel. JJ does not maximize their strengths (well to be fair, he doesn't maximize any forwards strengths), whereas Sid plays a more 2-way game and he can off-set JJ's awful play. As a coach, you have to put players in a position to succeed and putting Geno/Kessel with JJ is not putting them in a position to succeed. That's all there is to it.

Crosby’s most common defenseman is Letang. He’s pretty decent I hear
- jchst22

Was Letang his defenseman last night?

Kessel has always had some streakyness to him, seemed more so in TO, but I'm seeing him being in places to score but just isn't. Pucks hopping on him and what not. He'll start burying them again.
- MattStrat

I don't see a ton different in his game honestly. When he goes cold it's pretty ugly. I agree, they'll eventually start going in. We've only had Schultz and Letang healthy for 10 games or so. That's one of the biggest stories of the season IMO.

I don't see a ton different in his game honestly. When he goes cold it's pretty ugly. I agree, they'll eventually start going in. We've only had Schultz and Letang healthy for 10 games or so. That's one of the biggest stories of the season IMO.
- madmike71

That's the thing, his game hasn't changed at all lol he plays exactly as he always has, but depending on what Dman he's out there with also dictates the amount of chances that he is getting. That is a fact and that's all there is to it.

Winnipeg has scored. Hallelujah!

Torts's head might go all scanners. Pens getting some help today!

Columbus... 1-3 with an OT win for that 1... in the 4 games since doing one of the biggest all ins at the deadline in recent history (I can't think of a bigger one, but I am far from the expert on this topic).

Yeeeeeesh...

Kessel has always had some streakyness to him, seemed more so in TO, but I'm seeing him being in places to score but just isn't. Pucks hopping on him and what not. He'll start burying them again.
- MattStrat

I completely agree. He will figure it out. I just think it's dumb that there is always an excuse for Kessel, when often times he just doesn't seem committed to playing good hockey.

So... you want to say Letang-Dumo dragged down Crosby and Jake?

Okay... you're (frank)ing stupid
- Guile

No, I don't think anyone is dragging down that line. That's my point. They had Gud last night, who everyone said was worse than JJ and they tore it up.

I'm actually not emotional about this at all, I just gave an analysis, you are the one attaching emotion to it.

JJ actually has dragged down Crosby and Guentzel as well. 49% CF, 44% GF, 42% SCF%.

There's a difference in the way that Geno/Kessel play the game than Sid/Guentzel. JJ does not maximize their strengths (well to be fair, he doesn't maximize any forwards strengths), whereas Sid plays a more 2-way game and he can off-set JJ's awful play. As a coach, you have to put players in a position to succeed and putting Geno/Kessel with JJ is not putting them in a position to succeed. That's all there is to it.
- j.boyd919

You are absolutely right, there is a difference in how they play. Crosby plays the entire ice every game, Geno does on occasion and Kessel only plays offence. How about Geno and Kessel play hockey the right way and give the D group a better chance to succeed.

You are absolutely right, there is a difference in how they play. Crosby plays the entire ice every game, Geno does on occasion and Kessel only plays offence. How about Geno and Kessel play hockey the right way and give the D group a better chance to succeed.
- MacPatty

Because neither of them are a top-10 all-time NHL player like he is. They are highly effective offensively-oriented players, and it's to their detriment (and the team's) if they become more concerned with defense than offense. Crosby is on a different level.

You are absolutely right, there is a difference in how they play. Crosby plays the entire ice every game, Geno does on occasion and Kessel only plays offence. How about Geno and Kessel play hockey the right way and give the D group a better chance to succeed.
- MacPatty

"the right way" lol k.

Because neither of them are a top-10 all-time NHL player like he is. They are highly effective offensively-oriented players, and it's to their detriment (and the team's) if they become more concerned with defense than offense. Crosby is on a different level.
- jmatchett383

This guy gets it.

You are absolutely right, there is a difference in how they play. Crosby plays the entire ice every game, Geno does on occasion and Kessel only plays offence. How about Geno and Kessel play hockey the right way and give the D group a better chance to succeed.
- MacPatty

Why would you want them to?

Just because Crosby is hockey's version of a '5-tool player' (who comes around every generation), doesn't mean there isn't value to having 4-tool or 3-tool guys.(*cough sprong cough*) Kessel isn't here to play D.

I completely agree. He will figure it out. I just think it's dumb that there is always an excuse for Kessel, when often times he just doesn't seem committed to playing good hockey.
- MacPatty

“Phil Kessel is a point per game player and therefore gets slack to work through a prolonged slump” isn’t an excuse. It’s a self justifying statement. You’re accusing other people of getting emotional here but you’re the one that’s beating a hot take narrative and insisting on dying on a hill harder than Colonel George Armstrong Custer.

Why would you want them to?

Just because Crosby is hockey's version of a '5-tool player' (who comes around every generation), doesn't mean there isn't value to having 4-tool or 3-tool guys.(*cough sprong cough*) Kessel isn't here to play D.
- DeflatedPucks

My point is that you can't pin their offensive struggles on the defenceman they play with when they do nothing to help out on the back check or in their own zone. It's a two way street.

“Phil Kessel is a point per game player and therefore gets slack to work through a prolonged slump” isn’t an excuse. It’s a self justifying statement. You’re accusing other people of getting emotional here but you’re the one that’s beating a hot take narrative and insisting on dying on a hill harder than Colonel George Armstrong Custer.
- Victoro311

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say here.

I'm not "beating a hot take", I'm simply countering the poor Phil Kessel argument.

Maybe part of his struggles are due to the fact he is up against other teams 2nd line talent with Geno rather than opponents 3rd lines like he has been used to? I don't know.

My point is that you can't pin their offensive struggles on the defenceman they play with when they do nothing to help out on the back check or in their own zone. It's a two way street.
- MacPatty

Yes. Yes you can.

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say here.

I'm not "beating a hot take", I'm simply countering the poor Phil Kessel argument.

Maybe part of his struggles are due to the fact he is up against other teams 2nd line talent with Geno rather than opponents 3rd lines like he has been used to? I don't know.
- MacPatty

No. You’re right. You don’t know.

Hoping the Pens can sweep the jackets this weekend. If they do, it would be a big step to making the playoffs.

One thing no one brought up when Columbus went all in was, it puts a ton of pressure on the players and team. For a team that was on the playoff bubble, going all in puts a ton of pressure on the team to make the playoffs and go on a run. Not all players can handle this *Cough* Bobrovsky *Cough*.

Obviously a long way to go, 18 games, but it would be interesting to see what happens to the GM and Coach if they don't make the playoffs or win a round, I would have to assume they are fired.

You are absolutely right, there is a difference in how they play. Crosby plays the entire ice every game, Geno does on occasion and Kessel only plays offence. How about Geno and Kessel play hockey the right way and give the D group a better chance to succeed.
- MacPatty

Thats not true though. He back checks but he's never been a force on the boards and never will be. Doesnt mean he's not disrupting the other team in his defensive zone at all and sometimes he does come out on top of the board battles...he certainly isnt floating or cheating much out there.

Thats not true though. He back checks but he's never been a force on the boards and never will be. Doesnt mean he's not disrupting the other team in his defensive zone at all and sometimes he does come out on top of the board battles...he certainly isnt floating or cheating much out there.
- MattStrat

You think he watches the games?

Hoping the Pens can sweep the jackets this weekend. If they do, it would be a big step to making the playoffs.

One thing no one brought up when Columbus went all in was, it puts a ton of pressure on the players and team. For a team that was on the playoff bubble, going all in puts a ton of pressure on the team to make the playoffs and go on a run. Not all players can handle this *Cough* Bobrovsky *Cough*.

Obviously a long way to go, 18 games, but it would be interesting to see what happens to the GM and Coach if they don't make the playoffs or win a round, I would have to assume they are fired.
- abcpens10

It's like you ignored this exact topic discussed under 24 hours ago... 1 page prior.