So Kessel can turn the puck over, be a liability on D but get secondary assists on the PP and look good stats wise. Murray can play really well and make a lot of saves in some games but the let's in weak ones to lose others.

Not saying either are playing terrible but if you look at stats only you don't get the whole picture.
- MacPatty

I don’t get how people point to one or two or even three stats and use them to own the stats people saying they don’t tell the whole picture. There’s a ridiculous amount of data to use to evaluate how players and goaltenders are playing and for some reason, people pigeonhole themselves to like these few stats and they’re like “that doesn’t tell the whole picture.” Well no poop. You, yourself aren’t even looking at a big picture of stats. You’re only looking at a few when you have a ton at your disposal.

I remember the part where a 175 pound winger put him on his ass on the boards...
- Guile

Well any hockey player anywhere can get put on his ass. Big deal.

Changing the subject for a moment from mouth breathing, but...

If the Pens make the playoffs I've been thinking about who I'd prefer them to play. It's very hard to tell how the Metro standings will wind up because honestly, any of the top five teams could finish first. A small slide from the Isles or Caps could change it all around.

Teams that fear me the most in the first round: Canes and Isles
Teams that don't: Jackets and Bolts

Teams with momentum like the Isles and Canes are very dangerous. The Caps are hard to read; they kind of remind me of the Pens and will turn it up to 11 when the playoffs start.

I don't know why I'm not afraid of the Bolts. For some reason I feel like the Pens match up well against them. Some teams, regardless of the skill levels, just match up well against certain teams. NJ vs. Pens for instance.
- Rinosaur

Tampa could be undefeated on the year and still wouldn’t scare me. No to the Islanders. Best fourth line in hockey gives the pens fits.

Saying you’d take the bolts over the Isles or Canes is mouth breathing.
- Victoro311

Ouch! It's not an unheard of concept that some teams despite how good or bad they are happen to match up more favorably against certain opponents.

From watching the Pens/Bolts this year, the Pens seem counter their style quite well. I have felt the Isles and Canes give the Pens a much harder time.

So... legit question, not trying to jinx or antijinx...

Should Columbus not make the postseason after heavily going all in... does the Coach and or GM get fired? Assuming they don't retain hardly any of those rentals, or Bob, or Panarin as the word is they won't.

So... legit question, not trying to jinx or antijinx...

Should Columbus not make the postseason after heavily going all in... does the Coach and or GM get fired? Assuming they don't retain hardly any of those rentals, or Bob, or Panarin as the word is they won't.
- Guile

Torts would definitely be canned. I can see any way of keeping him in your scenario.

So... legit question, not trying to jinx or antijinx...

Should Columbus not make the postseason after heavily going all in... does the Coach and or GM get fired? Assuming they don't retain hardly any of those rentals, or Bob, or Panarin as the word is they won't.
- Guile

I would can torts reguardless. Probably a big reason why Panarin and Bob wanna leave. Back when we had Therrein I'm pretty sure Hossa didn't sign here because of him and we end up firing his ass halfway through the season anyway. When coaches call out their players to the media it's over. Weather anyone agrees with that kind of style or not it's just the truth. Obviously the pens in 09 had it with Therrien and literally tanked his ass out of town.

Flyers are doing us a solid. They are up 4-0

So... legit question, not trying to jinx or antijinx...

Should Columbus not make the postseason after heavily going all in... does the Coach and or GM get fired? Assuming they don't retain hardly any of those rentals, or Bob, or Panarin as the word is they won't.
- Guile

Torts for sure. Probably both. I think they'll unload a truckload of cash for Duchene to stay.

I looked up the Vegas betting odds for winning the Cup... Boston is the same line as us... wtf?

https://www.gambling.com/...ng-power-rankings-1690800

I looked up the Vegas betting odds for winning the Cup... Boston is the same line as us... wtf?

https://www.gambling.com/...ng-power-rankings-1690800
- Guile

Look at Boston's path

So... legit question, not trying to jinx or antijinx...

Should Columbus not make the postseason after heavily going all in... does the Coach and or GM get fired? Assuming they don't retain hardly any of those rentals, or Bob, or Panarin as the word is they won't.
- Guile

Torts probably does. GM, depends on if he got the owner on board or not before making those deals. Tough spot to be in as a franchise.

Look at Boston's path
- Tojo.

Ah... I was being lazy thinking that... Boston, Washington, Us... all same level because its assumed it'll be Tampa Bay coming out of there.

Well any hockey player anywhere can get put on his ass. Big deal.
- Grinder47

This I agree with.

It would be a franchise disaster if Columbus misssd out on the playoffs after going all in at the deadline.

Fookin eh!!! Just confirmed! Going to both pens vs jackets games coming up! Fly into Pittsburgh Thursday fly outta Columbus Sunday!

I don’t ever use GAA to evaluate goalies. That’s your mistake not mine.

That’s why you use primary points and 5v5 points to evaluate players as well. Again, your mistake, not mine.
- j.boyd919

Is Kessel racking up the primary points? Where? I heard last night scoreless in 14 games

That qualifies as showing up?

Is Murray passing your eye test? or do backbreaking goals not count if he racks up 15 easy saves before he let the team down at the worst possible time? Is this weakness he is showing affecting the other 5 guys on the ice and how they play in certain situations?

Fookin eh!!! Just confirmed! Going to both pens vs jackets games coming up! Fly into Pittsburgh Thursday fly outta Columbus Sunday!
- pens4life-66

Nationwide area is 1 of 11 arenas I haven’t been to yet! Heard it’s decent? Anyone been to a game there?

Nationwide area is 1 of 11 arenas I haven’t been to yet! Heard it’s decent? Anyone been to a game there?
- pens4life-66

You don't need to worry about getting shanked there but expect that annoying (frank)ing cannon. And maybe one or two buckeyes fans

It would be a franchise disaster if Columbus misssd out on the playoffs after going all in at the deadline.
- Doogs

Let's go Jets!

Is Kessel racking up the primary points? Where? I heard last night scoreless in 14 games

That qualifies as showing up?

Is Murray passing your eye test? or do backbreaking goals not count if he racks up 15 easy saves before he let the team down at the worst possible time? Is this weakness he is showing affecting the other 5 guys on the ice and how they play in certain situations?
- RoloTahmasee

You heard wrong... goalless, not scorless

Is Kessel racking up the primary points? Where? I heard last night scoreless in 14 games

That qualifies as showing up?

Is Murray passing your eye test? or do backbreaking goals not count if he racks up 15 easy saves before he let the team down at the worst possible time? Is this weakness he is showing affecting the other 5 guys on the ice and how they play in certain situations?
- RoloTahmasee

In the last 15 games, Kessel has 7 5v5 assists. 4 primary assists and 3 secondary assists. His line overall at 5v5 is 9 GF and 8 GA against. Having Jack Johnson as the defenseman he's been on the ice with the most, his line has a 35% CF and a 33% SCF, I would say that JJ, much like all of his defensive partners, is dragging down Kessel's game (who is already not known for 2-way play), but when you have an inept defenseman who's incapable of getting the forwards the puck, and makes boneheaded reads down low.

Despite not having a goal, he still has 10 points in his last 15 games, so he's also contributing on the PP albeit only 3 points. So while you say he's not showing up, I look at it as him making the best of a poopty situation playing with an awful defenseman.

Over the last 15, his high danger chances with JJ are 22%. His high danger chances away from JJ are 63%. That says enough to me that it's less about Kessel showing up and more about his on-ice team mates dragging his play down.


Murray on the other hand, in his last 10 (~400 min TOI) games has a .935 sv% at 5v5. He has a .831 high danger sv% which is around league average, but given that the Penguins have only held their opponents under 30 shots twice in Murray's last 10 starts, that is respectable, especially given that he's got a 50 save performance and 4 games over 35 saves. In 24 goalies who have played in the last 10 games and 400 minutes for their teams, Murray is 5th among them in saves per 60 with 32. Even to the eye test, Murray has been better, he's on his angles better than he was at the beginning of the year and he's making key saves, whether you want to admit it or not.

These "backbreaking" goals you speak of, are given up by every goalie in the league and they only stand out to you because that's what you remember, but you don't really remember the key saves that he makes at other points of the game. It's much like Letang or Geno or etc.'s "glaring mistakes" but you fail to remember all of the other parts of their games that have kept the Pens in games. Expecting him to make saves on uncontested shots after passes from below the goal line is ludicrous as that's one of the hardest shots to save for a goalie, same with a royal road passes, which the Pens tend to give up a decent amount.

Criticize Murray for the beginning of his season, that's understandable. He had to be better, and he has been. But since coming back from his injury he's been damn good or at the very least, good enough.

In the last 15 games, Kessel has 7 5v5 assists. 4 primary assists and 3 secondary assists. His line overall at 5v5 is 9 GF and 8 GA against. Having Jack Johnson as the defenseman he's been on the ice with the most, his line has a 35% CF and a 33% SCF, I would say that JJ, much like all of his defensive partners, is dragging down Kessel's game (who is already not known for 2-way play), but when you have an inept defenseman who's incapable of getting the forwards the puck, and makes boneheaded reads down low.

Despite not having a goal, he still has 10 points in his last 15 games, so he's also contributing on the PP albeit only 3 points. So while you say he's not showing up, I look at it as him making the best of a poopty situation playing with an awful defenseman.

Over the last 15, his high danger chances with JJ are 22%. His high danger chances away from JJ are 63%. That says enough to me that it's less about Kessel showing up and more about his on-ice team mates dragging his play down.


Murray on the other hand, in his last 10 (~400 min TOI) games has a .935 sv% at 5v5. He has a .831 high danger sv% which is around league average, but given that the Penguins have only held their opponents under 30 shots twice in Murray's last 10 starts, that is respectable, especially given that he's got a 50 save performance and 4 games over 35 saves. In 24 goalies who have played in the last 10 games and 400 minutes for their teams, Murray is 5th among them in saves per 60 with 32. Even to the eye test, Murray has been better, he's on his angles better than he was at the beginning of the year and he's making key saves, whether you want to admit it or not.

These "backbreaking" goals you speak of, are given up by every goalie in the league and they only stand out to you because that's what you remember, but you don't really remember the key saves that he makes at other points of the game. It's much like Letang or Geno or etc.'s "glaring mistakes" but you fail to remember all of the other parts of their games that have kept the Pens in games. Expecting him to make saves on uncontested shots after passes from below the goal line is ludicrous as that's one of the hardest shots to save for a goalie, same with a royal road passes, which the Pens tend to give up a decent amount.

Criticize Murray for the beginning of his season, that's understandable. He had to be better, and he has been. But since coming back from his injury he's been damn good or at the very least, good enough.
- j.boyd919

[img]
Right on[/img]

In the last 15 games, Kessel has 7 5v5 assists. 4 primary assists and 3 secondary assists. His line overall at 5v5 is 9 GF and 8 GA against. Having Jack Johnson as the defenseman he's been on the ice with the most, his line has a 35% CF and a 33% SCF, I would say that JJ, much like all of his defensive partners, is dragging down Kessel's game (who is already not known for 2-way play), but when you have an inept defenseman who's incapable of getting the forwards the puck, and makes boneheaded reads down low.

Despite not having a goal, he still has 10 points in his last 15 games, so he's also contributing on the PP albeit only 3 points. So while you say he's not showing up, I look at it as him making the best of a poopty situation playing with an awful defenseman.

Over the last 15, his high danger chances with JJ are 22%. His high danger chances away from JJ are 63%. That says enough to me that it's less about Kessel showing up and more about his on-ice team mates dragging his play down.


Murray on the other hand, in his last 10 (~400 min TOI) games has a .935 sv% at 5v5. He has a .831 high danger sv% which is around league average, but given that the Penguins have only held their opponents under 30 shots twice in Murray's last 10 starts, that is respectable, especially given that he's got a 50 save performance and 4 games over 35 saves. In 24 goalies who have played in the last 10 games and 400 minutes for their teams, Murray is 5th among them in saves per 60 with 32. Even to the eye test, Murray has been better, he's on his angles better than he was at the beginning of the year and he's making key saves, whether you want to admit it or not.

These "backbreaking" goals you speak of, are given up by every goalie in the league and they only stand out to you because that's what you remember, but you don't really remember the key saves that he makes at other points of the game. It's much like Letang or Geno or etc.'s "glaring mistakes" but you fail to remember all of the other parts of their games that have kept the Pens in games. Expecting him to make saves on uncontested shots after passes from below the goal line is ludicrous as that's one of the hardest shots to save for a goalie, same with a royal road passes, which the Pens tend to give up a decent amount.

Criticize Murray for the beginning of his season, that's understandable. He had to be better, and he has been. But since coming back from his injury he's been damn good or at the very least, good enough.
- j.boyd919

You are very emotional about this. Nobody is dragging Kessel down but himself. Like what is he doing to help out everyone else on the ice. He is playing one way hockey, lazy in his own end and will never give an effort to get the puck out of his own zone if it means he has to take physical contact. For him to be worth putting out there he needs to score at an elite level. He is not.

Why is it that no defenceman has dragged down Crosby and Jake, yet poor Kessel and Malkin are getting killed by one.

You are very emotional about this. Nobody is dragging Kessel down but himself. Like what is he doing to help out everyone else on the ice. He is playing one way hockey, lazy in his own end and will never give an effort to get the puck out of his own zone if it means he has to take physical contact. For him to be worth putting out there he needs to score at an elite level. He is not.

Why is it that no defenceman has dragged down Crosby and Jake, yet poor Kessel and Malkin are getting killed by one.
- MacPatty

Crosby’s most common defenseman is Letang. He’s pretty decent I hear