I think that as long as melnyk is owner Dorion will be the GM. he's Melnyk's little female dog, works for less than any other GM in the league, and spews whatever bullpoop Melnyk wants (no matter how ridiculous) to the media.

he's basically the Senators "Sarah Huckabee" to our "Donald Trump"
- sensarmy_11

While I agree, every GM is at the hands of the owner. I feel a more talented GM could work with the same handcuffs and obtain better results. While some roster moves are a direct result of Melnyk, some are a direct result of Dorion working within Melnyks realm. But it won’t be happening as you say.

To me, you still try to resign Stone and Duchene. It's useless to just have one of the two and if they both get traded, you can count on Chabot, Tkachuk etc wanting out as soon as possible. Why would they stay if management proves over and over again that they aren't in it for the long haul.

My other thought is that if you resign them, a rebuild takes 2 years, maybe even faster with the deep prospect pool we have. If you trade them, we're talking a 4-5 if not more year rebuild just to try to make the playoffs.

At some point we have to commit

To me, you still try to resign Stone and Duchene. It's useless to just have one of the two and if they both get traded, you can count on Chabot, Tkachuk etc wanting out as soon as possible. Why would they stay if management proves over and over again that they aren't in it for the long haul.

My other thought is that if you resign them, a rebuild takes 2 years, maybe even faster with the deep prospect pool we have. If you trade them, we're talking a 4-5 if not more year rebuild just to try to make the playoffs.

At some point we have to commit
- Maverick1818

as long as melnyk owns the team they'll never be able to afford to quit.

the guy loses tens of millions a year on this team, and has no other businesses with which to absorb the losses. Melnyk earns -30 mil a year

After what was just said on sports centre I pray we dont sign Stone .They just said he was offered 10.5m but dont know the length .Sorry but he is an 8 maybe just maybe as high as 9 to stay but that's it

After what was just said on sports centre I pray we dont sign Stone .They just said he was offered 10.5m but dont know the length .Sorry but he is an 8 maybe just maybe as high as 9 to stay but that's it
- roadzy

if it's a shorter term deal, I'm happy if he's making 10.5.

if it was an 8 year deal, that's different. if you sign him at 10.5 for like 5 years, no issues. is it maybe a million more than he'd likely get...sure....but Ottawa likely has to offer a higher AAV simply because they can't front all the money on signing bonuses that other teams can.

he's the best player on the team, arguably the best 2-way forward in the league, he's instantly the captain if he signs, and the positive impact he has on the young players is enormous. I'm happy to overpay to keep a guy like that on the team.

as long as melnyk owns the team they'll never be able to afford to quit.

the guy loses tens of millions a year on this team, and has no other businesses with which to absorb the losses. Melnyk earns -30 mil a year
- sensarmy_11

Melnyk is a wealthy man, You can google his net worth, it comes up as $1.21 Billion.

Now, likely most of that would be tied up and not liquid, but I certainly don't buy the argument of "he's going bankrupt". I'd say he's more just cheap.

wiki has his list of Business ventures as...

Ottawa Senators (NHL Team)
Belleville Senators
Canadian Tire Centre (Multi-purpose Arena and home of the Ottawa Senators)
Trimel Pharmaceuticals Corporation
Biovail Corporation (retired), formerly known as Trimel Pharmaceuticals (same name as Melnyk's new pharmaceutical company)
Bert's Bar (Barbados)
Bert's Bar (Ottawa)
Providence Charitable Trust
Providence Elementary and Secondary schools
Winding Oaks Farm (Florida, USA)
Mississauga St. Michael's Majors (sold) (OHL Hockey Club)
Mississauga Ice Dogs (sold) (OHL Hockey Club)
Fusion Brands Inc. (Cosmetics & Fragrances)
Olivann (Fragrance)
PurGenesis Technologies Inc.
Barbados real estate

Those other business should be able to sustain an income above and beyond what the Sens lose per year. I think it's more just the businesses that he is involved with are asset heavy, so most of that cash isn't liquid.

But beyond that, just the simple fact of, if the team is winning, and we have players that fans want to rally round (Stone, Duchene, Chabot, etc) that fans will show up, tickets will be purchased and merchandise will be bought. It's honestly that simple.

Not to mention the fact that he bought the Sens and the rink for half of what they are worth now.

Melnyk is a wealthy man, You can google his net worth, it comes up as $1.21 Billion.

Now, likely most of that would be tied up and not liquid, but I certainly don't buy the argument of "he's going bankrupt". I'd say he's more just cheap.

wiki has his list of Business ventures as...

Ottawa Senators (NHL Team)
Belleville Senators
Canadian Tire Centre (Multi-purpose Arena and home of the Ottawa Senators)
Trimel Pharmaceuticals Corporation
Biovail Corporation (retired), formerly known as Trimel Pharmaceuticals (same name as Melnyk's new pharmaceutical company)
Bert's Bar (Barbados)
Bert's Bar (Ottawa)
Providence Charitable Trust
Providence Elementary and Secondary schools
Winding Oaks Farm (Florida, USA)
Mississauga St. Michael's Majors (sold) (OHL Hockey Club)
Mississauga Ice Dogs (sold) (OHL Hockey Club)
Fusion Brands Inc. (Cosmetics & Fragrances)
Olivann (Fragrance)
PurGenesis Technologies Inc.
Barbados real estate

Those other business should be able to sustain an income above and beyond what the Sens lose per year. I think it's more just the businesses that he is involved with are asset heavy, so most of that cash isn't liquid.

But beyond that, just the simple fact of, if the team is winning, and we have players that fans want to rally round (Stone, Duchene, Chabot, etc) that fans will show up, tickets will be purchased and merchandise will be bought. It's honestly that simple.

Not to mention the fact that he bought the Sens and the rink for half of what they are worth now.
- Maverick1818

first of all, those aren't all his businesses now, those are all the businesses that he's been involved in at one point or another.

so let's assume we take the hockey ones out of that list, because we know they're losing a poop ton of money

he sold the farm in florida, along with all his horses

he didn't retire from Biovail, he was sued/charged with fraud and forced out....lucky he didn't end up in jail

Bert's bar in Ottawa is just part of CTC....wouldn't count that as a separate business

Bert's bar in Barbados went bankrupt and shut down

He was briefly involved in Olivann Fragrance, like 7 years ago.....same with the fusion one.

He isn't involved with Trimel (it's called Acerus now), other than an ongoing lawsuit......that company loses about 10mil per year also.

there are a couple of charities in there....I would hope he isn't profiting from those, but I wouldn't put anything past him.

I don't give a poop what the "claim" his net worth is......Melnyk is rapidly approaching bankrupty. the only real asset he has is this team (and that other assets that go along with it), and they don't make him any money.

first of all, those aren't all his businesses now, those are all the businesses that he's been involved in at one point or another.

so let's assume we take the hockey ones out of that list, because we know they're losing a poop ton of money

he sold the farm in florida, along with all his horses

he didn't retire from Biovail, he was sued/charged with fraud and forced out....lucky he didn't end up in jail

Bert's bar in Ottawa is just part of CTC....wouldn't count that as a separate business

Bert's bar in Barbados went bankrupt and shut down

He was briefly involved in Olivann Fragrance, like 7 years ago.....same with the fusion one.

He isn't involved with Trimel (it's called Acerus now), other than an ongoing lawsuit......that company loses about 10mil per year also.

there are a couple of charities in there....I would hope he isn't profiting from those, but I wouldn't put anything past him.

I don't give a poop what the "claim" his net worth is......Melnyk is rapidly approaching bankrupty. the only real asset he has is this team (and that other assets that go along with it), and they don't make him any money.
- sensarmy_11

People don't become Billionaires by mistake.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Melnyk, if he went bankrupt, I'd likely laugh at him. But facts are facts and the fact is he is registered as a Billionaire and to this day, is still registered as a billionaire.

I'd love for him and PD to be gone so we can move forward trying to build this team. But you'd think if he was going bankrupt rapidly and the so called "real asset" he has is losing 30M per year. He would sell it while he still can double his money and walk away back down south where he lives, laughing the whole way.

Where's the benefit in resigning Stone?

This team won't be competitive for at least 3-4 years if they draft and rebuild properly. The players you get for Stone now can be part of that new core, keeping Stone just costs you a lot of money, you remain a bad team, and he'll be on the tail end of his contract eating up a lot of cap when the rebuild over

Go All In, No Half Measures

Where's the benefit in resigning Stone?

This team won't be competitive for at least 3-4 years if they draft and rebuild properly. The players you get for Stone now can be part of that new core, keeping Stone just costs you a lot of money, you remain a bad team, and he'll be on the tail end of his contract eating up a lot of cap when the rebuild over

Go All In, No Half Measures
- RoloTahmasee

The benefit of resigning Stone, is only really for fans.

But the benefit of resigning Stone and Duchene. That cuts down the rebuilding by at least a couple years. With the deep prospect pool we already have, when the kids are ready to go, Stone and Duchene will be in their prime.

People don't become Billionaires by mistake.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Melnyk, if he went bankrupt, I'd likely laugh at him. But facts are facts and the fact is he is registered as a Billionaire and to this day, is still registered as a billionaire.

I'd love for him and PD to be gone so we can move forward trying to build this team. But you'd think if he was going bankrupt rapidly and the so called "real asset" he has is losing 30M per year. He would sell it while he still can double his money and walk away back down south where he lives, laughing the whole way.
- Maverick1818

You don't "register" anywhere as a Billionaire.


People call him a Billionaire because he calls himself a Billionaire. There's no way to prove otherwise, but when you connect the dots you know that it isn't true

Ever seen that guy with the really big house, the new truck, the boat in the driveway, ski-doos and all the toys? Do you think he's a "Millionaire"? Is he "Registered" somewhere as one?

Fact is, he's more that likely mortgaged and debt ridden to the hilt, barely keeping his head above water with payments

That's Melnyk

A couple of ticks up in interest rates, thats when you see the Truck and Boat being Repo'd and the House up for Sale

And idiots become Billionaires all the time. One lucky hit on a patent when you happen to be a majority stakeholder and BOOM - Billionaire

What you do after that is when your true Business Acumen comes out

Melnyk is a wealthy man, You can google his net worth, it comes up as $1.21 Billion.

Now, likely most of that would be tied up and not liquid, but I certainly don't buy the argument of "he's going bankrupt". I'd say he's more just cheap.

wiki has his list of Business ventures as...

Ottawa Senators (NHL Team)
Belleville Senators
Canadian Tire Centre (Multi-purpose Arena and home of the Ottawa Senators)
Trimel Pharmaceuticals Corporation
Biovail Corporation (retired), formerly known as Trimel Pharmaceuticals (same name as Melnyk's new pharmaceutical company)
Bert's Bar (Barbados)
Bert's Bar (Ottawa)
Providence Charitable Trust
Providence Elementary and Secondary schools
Winding Oaks Farm (Florida, USA)
Mississauga St. Michael's Majors (sold) (OHL Hockey Club)
Mississauga Ice Dogs (sold) (OHL Hockey Club)
Fusion Brands Inc. (Cosmetics & Fragrances)
Olivann (Fragrance)
PurGenesis Technologies Inc.
Barbados real estate

Those other business should be able to sustain an income above and beyond what the Sens lose per year. I think it's more just the businesses that he is involved with are asset heavy, so most of that cash isn't liquid.

But beyond that, just the simple fact of, if the team is winning, and we have players that fans want to rally round (Stone, Duchene, Chabot, etc) that fans will show up, tickets will be purchased and merchandise will be bought. It's honestly that simple.

Not to mention the fact that he bought the Sens and the rink for half of what they are worth now.
- Maverick1818

Net worth estimates are trash.

Is he cash poor?

What are his financial liabilities?

What are his ROIs?

etc

etc

People don't become Billionaires by mistake.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Melnyk, if he went bankrupt, I'd likely laugh at him. But facts are facts and the fact is he is registered as a Billionaire and to this day, is still registered as a billionaire.

I'd love for him and PD to be gone so we can move forward trying to build this team. But you'd think if he was going bankrupt rapidly and the so called "real asset" he has is losing 30M per year. He would sell it while he still can double his money and walk away back down south where he lives, laughing the whole way.
- Maverick1818

they don't get there by mistake, but they certainly get there by fraud and dishonesty....which is the case with Melnyk.

I have a degree in economics, my brother is a corporate lawyer......I know about this stuff. melnyk going bankrupt is not a question of "if" it's a question of "when"...unless he gets involved with another business to help him remain solvent. the only asset of significance that he owns is the Sens, and that's a money losing asset.

the reason his net worth stays high is because the value of the hockey team is increasing....but he doesn't have the capital to cover the operating costs. so the value of the team increases, his net worth stays about the same, but his "liquid assets" or his ability to keep the team, keep dwindling away.....because the increased value of the team doesn't come with increased profits.

Net worth estimates are trash.

Is he cash poor?

What are his financial liabilities?

What are his ROIs?

etc

etc
- Feds91Stammer

OMG, we agree......gross

Where's the benefit in resigning Stone?

This team won't be competitive for at least 3-4 years if they draft and rebuild properly. The players you get for Stone now can be part of that new core, keeping Stone just costs you a lot of money, you remain a bad team, and he'll be on the tail end of his contract eating up a lot of cap when the rebuild over

Go All In, No Half Measures
- RoloTahmasee

How do people define competitive? I think that's really important in all of these discussions.

Competitive to me, is making the playoffs, or at least fighting for a spot, year after year.

I take it that some people take the word to mean "Cup Contenders".

I truly believe that if you re-sign Stone, and address the obvious glaring holes in the defense- this team is competing for a playoff spot over the next few years.

And when the young talent they currently have develops into their early-mid twenties- we could have a Cup Contender.

Where's the benefit in resigning Stone?

This team won't be competitive for at least 3-4 years if they draft and rebuild properly. The players you get for Stone now can be part of that new core, keeping Stone just costs you a lot of money, you remain a bad team, and he'll be on the tail end of his contract eating up a lot of cap when the rebuild over

Go All In, No Half Measures
- RoloTahmasee

the benefit is both; the impact he has on the young players, both on and off the ice...as well as the fact that losing Stone, after everyone else that has left, might actually be the straw that breaks the back of the fans. they still need to sell tickets, and Stone is a fan favorite who helps put butts in the seat. I'd be willing to bet if Stone and Duchene both leave, attendance drops significantly again next season.

How do people define competitive? I think that's really important in all of these discussions.

Competitive to me, is making the playoffs, or at least fighting for a spot, year after year.

I take it that some people take the word to mean "Cup Contenders".

I truly believe that if you re-sign Stone, and address the obvious glaring holes in the defense- this team is competing for a playoff spot over the next few years.

And when the young talent they currently have develops into their early-mid twenties- we could have a Cup Contender.
- Jordo

Every team n the league, save for 2 or 3 has a shot at the playoffs, look at the Standings

competitive has been redefined as able to compete with the top teams for a Championship

Making the Playoffs or being middle of the pack is hogwash. Success is defined in championships, or at least competing with the other top teams for one

Cup Contender is probably your top 4 teams in the league

Competitive is having a realistic shot at winning, say the next 4-6 teams. These teams are on a trajectory to becoming Cup Contenders (ie: they are on their way up, not down)

The other 20 are the "rest" - In some form of on their way up, on their way down, or in full rebuild mode

they don't get there by mistake, but they certainly get there by fraud and dishonesty....which is the case with Melnyk.

I have a degree in economics, my brother is a corporate lawyer......I know about this stuff. melnyk going bankrupt is not a question of "if" it's a question of "when"...unless he gets involved with another business to help him remain solvent. the only asset of significance that he owns is the Sens, and that's a money losing asset.

the reason his net worth stays high is because the value of the hockey team is increasing....but he doesn't have the capital to cover the operating costs. so the value of the team increases, his net worth stays about the same, but his "liquid assets" or his ability to keep the team, keep dwindling away.....because the increased value of the team doesn't come with increased profits.
- sensarmy_11

I have a business degree, I know how it works.

The fact is, if he was doing illegal things, he's get punished for it. As well, he was on the list of Canadian Billionaires, when he purchased the Sens. So yes they have added to his success, but are certainly not his only accomplishment.

and yes I know increased value doesn't mean increased profit. However that was my point in the first place. if his main asset in the team is losing money. You'd think that any business man would say "I should get out of this while I can still earn a profit on the sale".

When a business is "going under", there are two courses of action
#1. Try to fix it
#2. Try to make profit from a sale

I'm still one of those people who thinks the sale of the team is possible and even more so possibly in the works. But I don't think it's just a money thing. I think Melnyk has worn out his welcome in Ottawa and is starting to figure out that fans aren't going to support a team as long as he is the owner.

If fact, I was thinking about this the other day. If the #Melnykout wants to hit him where it hurts. They should call for a boycott of the businesses that sponsor the Sens. If sponsors start pulling out, you can take it to the bank that Melnyk will be gone very quickly.

However, to say he's going bankrupt is absurd. I could see him losing enough to go from a Billionaire to a Millionaire. But he is certainly not going to be homeless anytime soon.

I think as fans, the only thing we can do, is try to somehow build for the future of this team. That's the only way to focus.

the benefit is both; the impact he has on the young players, both on and off the ice...as well as the fact that losing Stone, after everyone else that has left, might actually be the straw that breaks the back of the fans. they still need to sell tickets, and Stone is a fan favorite who helps put butts in the seat. I'd be willing to bet if Stone and Duchene both leave, attendance drops significantly again next season.
- sensarmy_11

I think the "We got the grizzled vet who's still good to teach the young'uns" is overplayed. 1 player doesn't put butts in the seats if the team is still losing

Keeping Stone costs you the young assets you'll need when you have a realistic shot, How much better would the Isles roster look if they bailed from Tavares a year early, probably have a couple of extra 1sts and a prospect in their pocket right now

Had it been possible to trade the Sedins in Vancouver when they still had *something*, how nice would their outlook be right now had they obtained a couple of extra 1sts a few years back

Hope is what sells fans, not 1 guy out there every 3rd of 4th shift who looks ok, but is being held back by the derth of talent on the rest of the roster, especially if the team is losing anyways

I have a business degree, I know how it works.

The fact is, if he was doing illegal things, he's get punished for it. As well, he was on the list of Canadian Billionaires, when he purchased the Sens. So yes they have added to his success, but are certainly not his only accomplishment.

and yes I know increased value doesn't mean increased profit. However that was my point in the first place. if his main asset in the team is losing money. You'd think that any business man would say "I should get out of this while I can still earn a profit on the sale".

When a business is "going under", there are two courses of action
#1. Try to fix it
#2. Try to make profit from a sale

I'm still one of those people who thinks the sale of the team is possible and even more so possibly in the works. But I don't think it's just a money thing. I think Melnyk has worn out his welcome in Ottawa and is starting to figure out that fans aren't going to support a team as long as he is the owner.

If fact, I was thinking about this the other day. If the #Melnykout wants to hit him where it hurts. They should call for a boycott of the businesses that sponsor the Sens. If sponsors start pulling out, you can take it to the bank that Melnyk will be gone very quickly.

However, to say he's going bankrupt is absurd. I could see him losing enough to go from a Billionaire to a Millionaire. But he is certainly not going to be homeless anytime soon.

I think as fans, the only thing we can do, is try to somehow build for the future of this team. That's the only way to focus.
- Maverick1818

You have a business degree?

How about when the interest payments on the debt he has financed against the value of the team outweigh the cashflow into the team, so that he can't make the debt payments, what then?

What Melnyk is doing is constantly kicking the can down the road, refinancing debt (on probably worse and worse terms) hoping a LeBreton or whatever deal would skyrocket the teams value before he can get out

If he can't make that happen before the cashflow falls behind the debt payment obligations, and he can't make another refinance deal, What do they call that again?

Oh, ya.... Bankruptcy

I have a business degree, I know how it works.

The fact is, if he was doing illegal things, he's get punished for it. As well, he was on the list of Canadian Billionaires, when he purchased the Sens. So yes they have added to his success, but are certainly not his only accomplishment.

and yes I know increased value doesn't mean increased profit. However that was my point in the first place. if his main asset in the team is losing money. You'd think that any business man would say "I should get out of this while I can still earn a profit on the sale".

When a business is "going under", there are two courses of action
#1. Try to fix it
#2. Try to make profit from a sale

I'm still one of those people who thinks the sale of the team is possible and even more so possibly in the works. But I don't think it's just a money thing. I think Melnyk has worn out his welcome in Ottawa and is starting to figure out that fans aren't going to support a team as long as he is the owner.

If fact, I was thinking about this the other day. If the #Melnykout wants to hit him where it hurts. They should call for a boycott of the businesses that sponsor the Sens. If sponsors start pulling out, you can take it to the bank that Melnyk will be gone very quickly.

However, to say he's going bankrupt is absurd. I could see him losing enough to go from a Billionaire to a Millionaire. But he is certainly not going to be homeless anytime soon.

I think as fans, the only thing we can do, is try to somehow build for the future of this team. That's the only way to focus.
- Maverick1818

Have you ever really read about Melnyk and how he made his money?

he's not a smart, savvy business man. He's a fraud and a crook, who's gotten to where he is by shady business dealings, alleged insider trading, and a myriad of other dishonest business practices.

you say that a "smart business man" would look at his sinking ship and get out while he could, well I maintain that he isn't a smart business man....he is completely incapable of separating his ego from the situation, and that is what's keeping him here. he likes the idea of owning the team, the perceived status that he thinks he has (even though he's probably one of the most hated men in sports)...and because of that perception, mixed with his arrogance, he's ignoring the fact that the team is driving his finances straight into the ground.

OMG, we agree......gross


- sensarmy_11

I can troll you some more if you would like?

Have you ever really read about Melnyk and how he made his money?

he's not a smart, savvy business man. He's a fraud and a crook, who's gotten to where he is by shady business dealings, alleged insider trading, and a myriad of other dishonest business practices.

you say that a "smart business man" would look at his sinking ship and get out while he could, well I maintain that he isn't a smart business man....he is completely incapable of separating his ego from the situation, and that is what's keeping him here. he likes the idea of owning the team, the perceived status that he thinks he has (even though he's probably one of the most hated men in sports)...and because of that perception, mixed with his arrogance, he's ignoring the fact that the team is driving his finances straight into the ground.
- sensarmy_11

All of this...

Broken down. He's a *somebody* and *relevant* as long as he owns the Sens.

If he sold, although he'd likely still be a millionaire, he'd be a nobody.. and his Ego can't stand the thought of that, whether that's denial, or something else

Just trade everyone already. I can't take this poop anymore. Someone wake me up when Eugene Ballard Trump has sold the team, or dropped dead. I don't care which.

Just trade everyone already. I can't take this poop anymore. Someone wake me up when Eugene Ballard Trump has sold the team, or dropped dead. I don't care which.
- hemlock34

The fan base had it's opportunity for him to drop dead. But someone stepped up and sold Melnyk a kidney, thus sold out the Sens