The problem with analytics now is the statistics tracked and licensed are limited. So right now people are grasping and making the best out of what they have to work with. This is why everything is based off shot attempts because SAP started to track them more in depth. Now shot attempts are being used to show possession, offense, defense and anything else they can make up out of it. Sadly most of the people that depend on the analytics right now use them as absolute findings, but in reality they are based off of a generic forecasting model to show patterns and predictability. Technically the numbers are not flawed, but how people use them are.

When actual individual puck possession and player movement is tracked and implemented with other collected data points then a whole new world will be opened up. Until those numbers are released to the public people will just continue to fudge the numbers accordingly to write a story that fills their narrative.
- Glak18

Some teams probably have much better internal stats than others. I would think it could be made public by getting tracking in small samples to start with less teams. Like doing it for playoffs.

Pretty sure any team wouldn't mind speed and skill lol
- bulet13

true but some teams needs grit. Tampa has tons of speed but maybe they could use a simmer type player. Everybody can't have the puck.

Some teams probably have much better internal stats than others. I would think it could be made public by getting tracking in small samples to start with less teams. Like doing it for playoffs.
- NC Flyers Fan

NHL teams DO NOT use the same numbers the internet is fascinated with.

NHL teams DO NOT use the same numbers the internet is fascinated with.
- Glak18

No. But I’m fascinated by the ones the teams use.

Is there an advanced stats site you like? I’m seriously asking. I find the ideas behind using them fascinating but can’t seem to find the stats I’d like to see.
- NC Flyers Fan

Naturalstattrick is good. Analytics are fine if you use them for what their good for, which is just showing what happens on the ice. The minute you start using them to say this player is good or bad, is when it goes wrong. Many use them to fit their agenda and spin their own story.

No. But I’m fascinated by the ones the teams use.
- NC Flyers Fan

It’s proprietary data that is well beyond the understanding of anyone outside the organization. Data scientists that are direct descendants of Sir Isaac Newton himself are the only ones capable of dissecting the complex data and applying it reasonably to the players. It’s no use even trying, really.

Where is joe grief?? I'm going through withdrawal lol

No. But I’m fascinated by the ones the teams use.
- NC Flyers Fan

Agreed, very fascinating, but the analytics will never be like baseball and can never be used like baseball. Yes, baseball is a team sport, but is much easier to gather data per individual than any other sport.

Naturalstattrick is good. Analytics are fine if you use them for what their good for, which is just showing what happens on the ice. The minute you start using them to say this player is good or bad, is when it goes wrong. Many use them to fit their agenda and spin their own story.
- MJL

Where is the guy who used all these heat map charts!? This is where he got them.

GUDDDOOOO-CHOP!
- GudasNew

Agreed, very fascinating, but the analytics will never be like baseball and can never be used like baseball. Yes, baseball is a team sport, but is much easier to gather data per individual than any other sport.
- Glak18

I was thinking of this...hockey analysis is very subjective and therefore hard to find uniformity across the board. Who would be making the analysis; they wouldn’t be able to do all the team’s games.

- KINGKENZO

Im confused. Nowadays is this cultural appropriation of Eastern culture or Dog culture?

It’s proprietary data that is well beyond the understanding of anyone outside the organization. Data scientists that are direct descendants of Sir Isaac Newton himself are the only ones capable of dissecting the complex data and applying it reasonably to the players. It’s no use even trying, really.
- StepfordSam

So if lineage can be proven, is there a next step? Or is it top secret?

I was thinking of this...hockey analysis is very subjective and therefore hard to find uniformity across the board. Who would be making the analysis; they wouldn’t be able to do all the team’s games.
- NC Flyers Fan

What you have in the analytics "community" is fake analysis or as I like to call it, analysis from afar. NHL executives such as GM's can't give you indepth reports on every player in the NHL, which is why they employ a team of pro scouts to watch players and report back. Yet the internet "experts" use analytics to form opinions on every player in the league when asked. They look at charts and graphs of flawed numbers to act as fake experts. Any analysis of any player based completely on analytics is by it's nature BS.

Giroux on Spittin' Chiclets

When debating the usefulness of analytics, one must turn to the great American philosopher, Homer Simpson.

“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true!”

Giroux on Spittin' Chiclets


- Glak18

I like Paul Bissonnette, but Ryan Whitney and that other dude have accents that make them completely unlistenable to me.

What you have in the analytics "community" is fake analysis or as I like to call it, analysis from afar. NHL executives such as GM's can't give you indepth reports on every player in the NHL, which is why they employ a team of pro scouts to watch players and report back. Yet the internet "experts" use analytics to form opinions on every player in the league when asked. They look at charts and graphs of flawed numbers to act as fake experts. Any analysis of any player based completely on analytics is by it's nature BS.
- MJL

Are you Ruben Amaro Jr.?

Im confused. Nowadays is this cultural appropriation of Eastern culture or Dog culture?
- MBFlyerfan

Ethnically and ethically insensitive.

NHL teams DO NOT use the same numbers the internet is fascinated with.
- Glak18

Well that is dumb of them as everyone should know Internet GM's always know as much or more then actual GM's.

Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Fall Short vs. Tampa, 5-2
- bmeltzer

I’m not so much discouraged by the loss as I am, how we lose. Sure we didn’t show up until the second period, down by 3 but these late opportunities to make a comeback or being made impossible by the refs. One quick whistle on a glove save that never happened. Another phantom goalie interference call when nobody touched the goaltender and the puck is in the net.

I’ll always be upset with my team for not completing but the officiating has be Disgusting!

As for Mac vs Ghost. I can understand the idea of sitting Ghost having Mac play with Myers but I would sit Mac and limit Ghost’s minutes. I’m sorry but the first two goals last night were on Mac.

Are you Ruben Amaro Jr.?
- Sinisalo4vr

You misunderstand Ruben Amaro Jr. He feigned ignorance of analytics as a competitive advantage. He even said so himself!

Where is joe grief?? I'm going through withdrawal lol
- bulet13

Psst...he wasn’t what I think of as....hum....”interesting”

I’m not so much discouraged by the loss as I am, how we lose. Sure we didn’t show up until the second period, down by 3 but these late opportunities to make a comeback or being made impossible by the refs. One quick whistle on a glove save that never happened. Another phantom goalie interference call when nobody touched the goaltender and the puck is in the net.

I’ll always be upset with my team for not completing but the officiating has be Disgusting!

As for Mac vs Ghost. I can understand the idea of sitting Ghost having Mac play with Myers but I would sit Mac and limit Ghost’s minutes. I’m sorry but the first two goals last night were on Mac.
- SuperSchennBros

One Ghost actually tipped in no? And off the draw Ghost wrapped a puck to noone, Mac didn't have his guy and they scored. Ghost was very much the culprit or had a hand in a couple goals last night.

Hart was due to have a clunker, but lately it seems that everybody has clunkers when the play against Tampa. Please separate Ghost and Amac. That pairing just doesn't seem to work well. Sitting Amac for a game or two and playing Meyers wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.