Well remember, a top-4 defenseman who's a year and a half year younger than Simmonds and who has term remaining on his deal was worth a first. Clearly, this means that Simmonds, a middle-six winger who is going to be 31 next year and is an impending UFA, will be worth at least a first round pick.

I have been assured of this.
- jmatchett383

I guess we will see. There does seem to be a bunch of guys that are becoming available. I’m very Leary of Simmonds 4 years from now....I was hoping for 2- 3 years at 7, but I understand why the Player wouldn’t want that. As far as the young guys coming....I haven’t seen one of them that makes me think 7 million a year player for their 2nd contract....so I do beleive the $ is there for Simmonds short term.

I guess we will see. There does seem to be a bunch of guys that are becoming available. I’m very Leary of Simmonds 4 years from now....I was hoping for 2- 3 years at 7, but I understand why the Player wouldn’t want that. As far as the young guys coming....I haven’t seen one of them that makes me think 7 million a year player for their 2nd contract....so I do beleive the $ is there for Simmonds short term.

- landros 2

I think Provorov will be around there. Maybe just short but he'll be close.

My max term is zero. They don't need Simmonds for the PP, and he's barely a 3rd liner at ES. It's time to make room for the next wave of forward prospects, and go after a top talent in free agency like Panarin or Stone.
- Feanor

I just wish they had a young physical forward to replace him....that can play....I know there a lot of hate for that Mantha kid, but I love his game...big, strong, skilled, good skater and can handle him self.
I wonder if Fletcher agrees with your assessment? He may think it’s time to move on.

I guess we will see. There does seem to be a bunch of guys that are becoming available. I’m very Leary of Simmonds 4 years from now....I was hoping for 2- 3 years at 7, but I understand why the Player wouldn’t want that. As far as the young guys coming....I haven’t seen one of them that makes me think 7 million a year player for their 2nd contract....so I do beleive the $ is there for Simmonds short term.

- landros 2

$7M would be Provorov's ceiling. But Konecny will get probably $3.5-4, Sanheim will need a hefty raise, Hart will be getting big money (hopefully), hopefully Frost and Myers will as well.

Now, there are ways to create space by trading other players...but out soon-to-be 31-year-old would be the one I'd look to move.

And yes, short term (2-3 years) there is space. Past that, I wouldn't be too sure.

I just wish they had a young physical forward to replace him....that can play....I know there a lot of hate for that Mantha kid, but I love his game...big, strong, skilled, good skater and can handle him self.
I wonder if Fletcher agrees with your assessment? He may think it’s time to move on.
- landros 2

Isn't that what Allison (injuries aside) and Ratcliffe are supposed to bring? Granted, neither of them have played 1 game at the NHL level, but they're supposed to be similar players.

I think Provorov will be around there. Maybe just short but he'll be close.
- J35Bacher

I think had Provy played this year like last year then for sure....who knows, maybe he lights it up the last 20 games or so and gets the big contract....he certainly has the skill and talent to do it.
Interesting, Bill already alluded to it a while back, that his agent thinks he deserves the $ now. It could be ugly.

I don't think you necessarily need guys that are good fighters to win if you have enough talent (Chicago's last 2 Cups, both LA Cups can be added to the Penguins' Cups). I'm not saying they're bad to have, I just don't think they're a required part of the recipe to win.
- jmatchett383

Those additional teams didn’t have Tom Wilson or designated fighters but they had guys who could stand up for themselves and their teammates. It comes down then to who does your competition have...ask Vegas.

Isn't that what Allison (injuries aside) and Ratcliffe are supposed to bring? Granted, neither of them have played 1 game at the NHL level, but they're supposed to be similar players.
- jmatchett383

I’ve watched Ratcliffe a quite a few times this year....He’s big, but has very little edge to his game. Allison might ? I’ve never seen him play, but the pundits say he plays that way. Can it carry over to the NHL ? I hope so.

Those additional teams didn’t have Tom Wilson or designated fighters but they had guys who could stand up for themselves and their teammates. It comes down then to who does your competition have...ask Vegas.
- NC Flyers Fan

Name those players, please. And if you say Andre Shaw and Dustin Brown...I don't know what to tell you.

Those Kings and Hawks teams, from what I saw, were tough because all 18 skaters were on board and battled and stood up for each other. They didn't need to put a "fighter" out there to handle things, because it got handled by the players on the ice at the time if and when something needed handling.

Well, I guess we won't be extending all of Provorov, Konecny, Hart, Sanheim, and Patrick when they need their big raises in the next 3 years. Better hope that Frost and Myers don't pan out, or we can add them to the group as well.

This isn't about Simmonds, it's about asset management. That's why I was against the JvR signing if they wanted to extend Simmonds. You can have one, but preferably not both. That's a ton of money tied into two players who primarily need to have playmakers on their lines to be effective.
- jmatchett383

Correct. If Simmonds is extended, then we can start debating who should be traded...Voracek, JVR, Sanheim....? Of course they won’t keep them all. That is what an evaluation period is all about.

Name those players, please. And if you say Andre Shaw and Dustin Brown...I don't know what to tell you.

Those Kings and Hawks teams, from what I saw, were tough because all 18 skaters were on board and battled and stood up for each other. They didn't need to put a "fighter" out there to handle things, because it got handled by the players on the ice at the time if and when something needed handling.
- jmatchett383

Funny enough, I looked at the rosters, one name does standout. Dan Carcillo

Funny enough, I looked at the rosters, one name does standout. Dan Carcillo
- NC Flyers Fan

Yep. Played a grand total of 23 regular season and 4 playoff games when Chicago won their 2nd Cup. Played 26 regular season games and 0 playoff games when LA won their 2nd.

Impact player for sure.

Yep. Played a grand total of 23 regular season and 4 playoff games when Chicago won their 2nd Cup. Played 26 regular season games and 0 playoff games when LA won their 2nd.

Impact player for sure.
- jmatchett383

I don’t care about his regular season and I didn’t say impact player. Carcillo was a guy both team had...just in case.

Why did you ignore this part?

It comes down then to who does your competition have...ask Vegas.
- NC Flyers Fan

I don’t care about his regular season and I didn’t say impact player. Carcillo was a guy both team had...just in case.

Why did you ignore this part?
- NC Flyers Fan

Yeah, Dan Carcillo sure is a player that a championship team needs. He has struck fear in many a 16-year-old CHL player. His wrath is the stuff of legend. Good dude, though, I like what he's done in retirement.

Las Vegas probably had a bumpier road than Washington did, as far as physical play goes. Both Winnipeg and Nashville are heavy teams, especially defensively. Again, neither of those teams had "fighters" but they were big, talented, cohesive teams and are the type that will have 4 players on the ice pile in if a liberty is taken, and Vegas was the same way. And that's what I'm talking about: team toughness, not 2-3 player toughness.

And for the record, Vegas had Ryan Reaves, and he was a virtual non-factor in the playoffs(2 goals in 10 games) because he's not good at hockey. And if you are saying they got him to match up against Tom Wilson, I'd like to borrow their crystal ball.

Four points but generally they didn't play well in either. Hart saved their bacon.

This is unsustainable.

Funny enough, I looked at the rosters, one name does standout. Dan Carcillo
- NC Flyers Fan

You don't keep a player around just to handle issues like yesterday. Someone took care of those issues before Simmonds came along and someone will take care of them when he's gone.

Yeah, Dan Carcillo sure is a player that a championship team needs. He has struck fear in many a 16-year-old CHL player. His wrath is the stuff of legend. Good dude, though, I like what he's done in retirement.

Las Vegas probably had a bumpier road than Washington did, as far as physical play goes. Both Winnipeg and Nashville are heavy teams, especially defensively. Again, neither of those teams had "fighters" but they were big, talented, cohesive teams and are the type that will have 4 players on the ice pile in if a liberty is taken, and Vegas was the same way. And that's what I'm talking about: team toughness, not 2-3 player toughness.

And for the record, Vegas had Ryan Reaves, and he was a virtual non-factor in the playoffs because he's not good at hockey.
- jmatchett383

Agreed

Mostly, I agree about team toughness as well. I am not sure that if you take out 3 or 4 guys, we would be considered tough. A lot of that has to do with size and ability though and not their mental outlook.

Have to say scanning those old Stanley Cup teams, I found lots of funny stuff. It would probably be better to ask their own fans who the toughness guys were. IDK

Funny
https://www.cbssports.com...lty-box-in-heated-game-7/

Four points but generally they didn't play well in either. Hart saved their bacon.

This is unsustainable.
- Scoob

Yep, you won't win consistently against good teams playing like that.

You don't keep a player around just to handle issues like yesterday. Someone took care of those issues before Simmonds came along and someone will take care of them when he's gone.
- MJL

Not if you don’t plan for it...of course I assume they will plan...but it isn’t a given if they don’t.

Agreed

Mostly, I agree about team toughness as well. I am not sure that if you take out 3 or 4 guys, we would be considered tough. A lot of that has to do with size and ability though and not their mental outlook.

Have to say scanning those old Stanley Cup teams, I found lots of funny stuff. It would probably be better to ask their own fans who the toughness guys were. IDK

Funny
https://www.cbssports.com...lty-box-in-heated-game-7/
- NC Flyers Fan

That video kind of is my point. Coburn was big, but he wasn't know as an overly physical player. If anything, that was one thing his detractors could pin him on. He didn't lay big hits or fight often. And when he did fight, he often lost (see old man Own Nolan fighting him as a good example). But he wasn't going to let big bad Tom Wilson off the hook, either, so he fought him.

One thing you can't teach is size and tenacity, those are things you're born with or develop on your own over time. So I'm not in favor of becoming a team of mites who try to skate score on a line rush every time. I just don't think you need guys who need to be tapped on the shoulder to handle things, either. That should come from within most players.

That video kind of is my point. Coburn was big, but he wasn't know as an overly physical player. If anything, that was one thing his detractors could pin him on. He didn't lay big hits or fight often. And when he did fight, he often lost (see old man Own Nolan fighting him as a good example). But he wasn't going to let big bad Tom Wilson off the hook, either, so he fought him.

One thing you can't teach is size and tenacity, those are things you're born with or develop on your own over time. So I'm not in favor of becoming a team of mites who try to skate score on a line rush every time. I just don't think you need guys who need to be tapped on the shoulder to handle things, either. That should come from within most players.
- jmatchett383

In fairness, I don’t think anyone did tap Simmonds. He simply did what he thought was right and has that natural tenacity. Do you think we are tough outside a select few?

Not if you don’t plan for it...of course I assume they will plan...but it isn’t a given if they don’t.
- NC Flyers Fan

I want team toughness during the course of play. Toughness on the puck around the net, in the corners. etc. No need to plan for a event like that which will rarely happen. A complete non factor in planning for the future in my opinion. There will always be players to stand up for teammates.

Yeah, Dan Carcillo sure is a player that a championship team needs. He has struck fear in many a 16-year-old CHL player. His wrath is the stuff of legend. Good dude, though, I like what he's done in retirement.

Las Vegas probably had a bumpier road than Washington did, as far as physical play goes. Both Winnipeg and Nashville are heavy teams, especially defensively. Again, neither of those teams had "fighters" but they were big, talented, cohesive teams and are the type that will have 4 players on the ice pile in if a liberty is taken, and Vegas was the same way. And that's what I'm talking about: team toughness, not 2-3 player toughness.

And for the record, Vegas had Ryan Reaves, and he was a virtual non-factor in the playoffs(2 goals in 10 games) because he's not good at hockey. And if you are saying they got him to match up against Tom Wilson, I'd like to borrow their crystal ball.
- jmatchett383

so because he only scores 2 goals he was a non factor? thats a short sighted view.

In fairness, I don’t think anyone did tap Simmonds. He simply did what he thought was right and has that natural tenacity. Do you think we are tough outside a select few?
- NC Flyers Fan

No, I don't think we are, and I think that is a bit of the problem. I think that the team needs more size but not at the expense of skill. But again, a tough team and a team with players who are designated to fight are 2 separate things. Take players like Sami Kapanen, Danny Markov, Rob DiMaio, Mark Recchi, and Kevin Dineen. None of these guys were known as fighters, and none were big guys (Dineen and Markov lead the way at 5'11), but I would call each and every one a tough player because of how they played, and none of them every backed down from a challenge or had to have a "fighter" settle things for them.

so because he only scores 2 goals he was a non factor? thats a short sighted view.
- daryl stanley

No, he was a non-factor because he only scored 2 goals and didn't impact the series in any other way. If you are putting up points but not doing anything else, you're a factor. If you're not scoring but are bringing something else (see Shawn Thornton in 2011), you're a factor. This can be leading the PK, shutting down the other team's top lines, being an effective forechecker, etc. Reaves, aside from a few big hits early in the series, didn't really bring anything else to the table. So, yes, I would say he was a non-factor.

But man, dude sure can fight.