Brown is a 4th line player. Zaitsev is just plain bad. Hyman, I will give you. Brown will never be a 2nd line player. HYman is best suited to a 3rd line hybrid role. He is 26. There is no magic growth left for him but he is on a good contract for his 35ish point he produces.
- Elbows15

Connor Brown averages .4PPG for his career. That’s 33 points on average per season. How is that 4th line production? Furthermore, it’s only 2 less points than TT put up before he was packaged off with Bickell.

Players break out at weird ages. It just depends. Did anyone really think Lindholm was going to average above PPG this season? Because he’s doing it.

Blake Wheeler didn’t begin to realize his full potential until he was 26. At 26 Atkinson had only reached 40 points, not much higher than Hyman. He sure exploded after that. Ryan Dzingel is 26 right now and taking off before our very eyes

The Canucks aren’t like the Leafs, they don’t sellout when the team sucks. Making the playoffs would be a win for the fan base (as much as I hate to say that). The same can be said for AZ if they somehow snuck in - they really need some validation even with all these injuries. I would love to see them draft high. The Isles: honestly who knows. They’re getting great goaltending which could stay that way or could fall flat. Sure looks like they’re going to be buyers tho
- WSCTeton17

The Islanders? In the last 30 days the Hawks played them twice. Each team won once in OT/SO. So in 6 periods, they tied 4-4 in total goals. So, they’re either pretty much the same team, the Hawks have seriously underperformed in the remainder of the season, or the Isles have overperformed. My guess is the latter.

Regarding Panarin, the reason to keep him was his rental value when his contract is expiring, if they were really worried about not being able to keep him. He is going to get a king's ransom if he gets dealt at the TDL. They can't possibly get that with Saad now. Seems Bowman really overthought this trade, unless there is a reason we don't know for this trade having happened.
- 333inthe3rd

You may recall coach Q storming out of a meeting when the trade happened. He was blindsided from it. We all knew why the trade was made, its just like they said it was a cap move. They also felt Saad would revive Toews and that Kane would produce with anybody. I think just about anyone can be traded and it can work out (see the Karlsson trade) my problem was with the return. Ottawa giving up their 1st rounder in that Duchene deal was HUGE. The original Kessel trade, wow did the Bruins ever collect on that (and then Chiarelli botched the Seguin trade). Then you have Panarin, a bonafide superstar and you get a much worse player, at a similar cap hit, and you don’t even knock the futures out of the park. It was obvious that he was targeting Saad but the return was paltry

The Islanders? In the last 30 days the Hawks played them twice. Each team won once in OT/SO. So in 6 periods, they tied 4-4 in total goals. So, they’re either pretty much the same team, the Hawks have seriously underperformed in the remainder of the season, or the Isles have overperformed. My guess is the latter.
- scottak

You’re basing the entirety of the Islanders season based off 2 games? I hope you don’t do the same for Pitt because Chicago always walks all over us, but hey we have 2 of the last 3 cups. Many of the Hawks have absolutely underperformed. Your special teams were abysmal, you had no starting goalie, Murphy was out, Kane got the flu.

Idk if you all remember when you signed Ward but he had an awful start to the season. That’s a Bowman signing. Goalies you could’ve likely gotten for less/similar include: Lehtonen, Halak, Lehner, Wedgewood, Mrazek, Khudobin, Bernier, Koskinen, Johnson

I’m on leave for surgery. I quote my own posts to add additional context - my god, what a concept!

I’m so offended! Thanks for welcoming me with open arms.

I’m also not new here, I’m just not a regular
- WSCTeton17

This blog states FUN trades not tear apart every aspect of any proposal

Connor Brown averages .4PPG for his career. That’s 33 points on average per season. How is that 4th line production? Furthermore, it’s only 2 less points than TT put up before he was packaged off with Bickell.

Players break out at weird ages. It just depends. Did anyone really think Lindholm was going to average above PPG this season? Because he’s doing it.

Blake Wheeler didn’t begin to realize his full potential until he was 26. At 26 Atkinson had only reached 40 points, not much higher than Hyman. He sure exploded after that. Ryan Dzingel is 26 right now and taking off before our very eyes
- WSCTeton17

I enjoy your insight, let the rest roll off your back.

There is an instant gratification affliction with many. Also a myopic view of the league revolving around the black hawks, and a perception that all other teams feel the same.

Keep posting....I enjoy the intellectual stimulation....

Sooo you’re saying his rights are absolutely worthless at that point? You know who else didn’t want to sign with their teams at young ages? Jack Johnson, Eric Lindros

You want examples of more college players? Sure. How about Justin Schultz. The Ducks were willing to trade Schultz and get something for nothing but apparently he led them on so they couldn’t. Another one is Jimmy Vesey: he wasn’t even a 1st rounder, he was a 3rd rounder who had a great college career and was sent to Buffalo for a 3rd rounder. I would say that’s pretty good asset management by Poile, wouldn’t you agree? Or are you of the opinion that a 3rd round pick is absolutely meaningless?
- WSCTeton17

the hawks were still trying to negotiate with him right up to the time he selected the rangers; they didn't want to trade his rights...and they had no rights he was a UFA

Connor Brown averages .4PPG for his career. That’s 33 points on average per season. How is that 4th line production? Furthermore, it’s only 2 less points than TT put up before he was packaged off with Bickell.

Players break out at weird ages. It just depends. Did anyone really think Lindholm was going to average above PPG this season? Because he’s doing it.

Blake Wheeler didn’t begin to realize his full potential until he was 26. At 26 Atkinson had only reached 40 points, not much higher than Hyman. He sure exploded after that. Ryan Dzingel is 26 right now and taking off before our very eyes
- WSCTeton17

Conor Brown already had his one magical year. His numbers the last two season are heading in the downward direction. He's a 4th line guy. You can cite all the exceptions you want. It won't change the fact that Brown is a 4th liner.

You’re basing the entirety of the Islanders season based off 2 games? I hope you don’t do the same for Pitt because Chicago always walks all over us, but hey we have 2 of the last 3 cups. Many of the Hawks have absolutely underperformed. Your special teams were abysmal, you had no starting goalie, Murphy was out, Kane got the flu.

Idk if you all remember when you signed Ward but he had an awful start to the season. That’s a Bowman signing. Goalies you could’ve likely gotten for less/similar include: Lehtonen, Halak, Lehner, Wedgewood, Mrazek, Khudobin, Bernier, Koskinen, Johnson
- WSCTeton17

The Hawks haven't underperformed. They aren't very good.

Boy do you cast wide net, I'm not talking about the game itself or technology or even contract limits. If you do your research teams have always only given 4-6 year deals on RFA who get a hefty pay raise its rare for anyone getting a 8 year deal on a RFA, you make it sound like it's a new trend. BTW the limits came at the last cba. They cleaned up some of the loop holes like Keith's contract. And when the cba is negotiated again they will clean other things up. The only thing the teams competing for a SC are most of them are pressed against the cap and i truly believe there will be one or two compliance buy outs available to these teams. But again we'll see and again im talking about the relationship to the hard cap, contracts, and teams who have to shed salary always have to give more to get rid of, and again just give me 1 example where this isn't true, just one, not a political novel which goes completely off course.

Stay in your lane bro
- BetweenTheDots

I may have used the words “young studs” but during the conversation we were talking about NHL superstars and offer sheets such as Matthews and Marner. Most young studs get 5-6 year deals and the bonafide superstars get 7-8. We’re talking about the epic studs of the league. And it’s not me saying that the superstars may be looking at 5-6 year deals again, it’s the analysts at Sportsnet - which I did reference earlier. Again, we’re talking about the NHL elite. Not the 2nd tier Duchene/Evander Kane’s. I also acknowledged that the contract limitations and buyouts are RECENT. They happened in the last 2 CBAs. I also said that just because something happened twice that it means it’s going to happen forever and ever. Word for word “there might even be more buyouts, but I don’t see it.”

Obviously Chicago fans and Oiler fans (and maybe the Pens with that awful JJ signing) would want a buyout. But let’s be real here. The current CBA doesn’t expire until after the 2022 season. Maybe that’s something you know and maybe it’s not. After that season Seabs only has 2 years left (and may be looking at retirement, who knows), Lucic will only have 1 more season left, JJ will have 1 more season left, Zaitsev (who is likely long out of TO by then) will have 2 seasons left. So, where are these teams that are placing a huge concern on compliance buyouts that far out and how do they once again convince the NHLPA that buyouts are necessary and wanted? And the Owners aren’t stupid either. They know exactly which teams it will benefit and which it wont

This blog states FUN trades not tear apart every aspect of any proposal
- Abadseed

To each their own. Some people have been ripping Hawks trades of old, some supporting them, and then some people have called some of these players something that some of us feel they’re not. If you tell me that someone, regardless of age or cap hit, that averages ~0.4PPG is a 4th liner well then I’m absolutely going to disagree with you. I can’t agree with someone saying that TT at 0.4PPG is a stud but then some other guy at 0.4PPG with less ice time and more defensive zone starts is somehow worth a ton less. It just doesn’t add up

You’re basing the entirety of the Islanders season based off 2 games? I hope you don’t do the same for Pitt because Chicago always walks all over us, but hey we have 2 of the last 3 cups. Many of the Hawks have absolutely underperformed. Your special teams were abysmal, you had no starting goalie, Murphy was out, Kane got the flu.

Idk if you all remember when you signed Ward but he had an awful start to the season. That’s a Bowman signing. Goalies you could’ve likely gotten for less/similar include: Lehtonen, Halak, Lehner, Wedgewood, Mrazek, Khudobin, Bernier, Koskinen, Johnson
- WSCTeton17

you are wrong again:

ward had a tough start cuz the team defense in front of him was a complete poop or no show...craw had the same problems after his injury return..

hawks wanted a 1 year goalie back up fix; to get it they had to give ward a NMC.

the other goalies you mentioned were seeking and some did get multiple years at 2- 3mil per and the hawks were not in the market for that type of commitment; so no the stanbow could not have "gotten all of them for less or similar"

lehtonen was coming off a 6 mil per and is now in finland: no thanks
mrazek was a possibility but he was looking a longer term contract before settling with the canes at 1 year
lehner, khudobin and bernier were looking for multiple year contracts; lehner ended up with a 1 year for the isles..

I enjoy your insight, let the rest roll off your back.

There is an instant gratification affliction with many. Also a myopic view of the league revolving around the black hawks, and a perception that all other teams feel the same.

Keep posting....I enjoy the intellectual stimulation....
- TrueGrit

Instigator

I enjoy your insight, let the rest roll off your back.

There is an instant gratification affliction with many. Also a myopic view of the league revolving around the black hawks, and a perception that all other teams feel the same.

Keep posting....I enjoy the intellectual stimulation....
- TrueGrit

I respect that you have an advanced knowledge of some of these eastern teams. This is a blog site. I don’t expect everyone here to have the same level of hockey knowledge and that’s fine because it’s for fun. The Islanders and Bolts clearly have so many options and possibly the best for both is to just stand pat. I’m not an Islanders fan by any means, but losing out on Tavares sucked for them and I think Erik Karlsson and Panarin would fit in so well on the island.

I enjoy coming on these sites and going back and forth with proposals. Having said that, I don’t think there’s anything “fun” about Saad for Hamilton if you’re a Canes fan or a fan of any other team that wants Hamilton! He’s an unreal hockey player that is just kinda unique as a person. Maybe he grows out of it, idk. Further on that same point, I don’t think calling a guy like Zacha (former 6th overall pick but really looking like nothing more than average 3rd liner) has immense value while players that produce more with less ice time and provide other forms of value are somehow valued as less just because maybe you’re not familiar with a player *shrug*

you are wrong again:

ward had a tough start cuz the team defense in front of him was a complete poop or no show...craw had the same problems after his injury return..

hawks wanted a 1 year goalie back up fix; to get it they had to give ward a NMC.

the other goalies you mentioned were seeking and some did get multiple years at 2- 3mil per and the hawks were not in the market for that type of commitment; so no the stanbow could not have "gotten all of them for less or similar"

lehtonen was coming off a 6 mil per and is now in finland: no thanks
mrazek was a possibility but he was looking a longer term contract before settling with the canes at 1 year
lehner, khudobin and bernier were looking for multiple year contracts; lehner ended up with a 1 year for the isles..
- bogiedoc

Ward just plain is bad. And has been bad for years. The team defense didn't help but the Ward has been sporting a .900ish SV% for years. Which when measured against his peers is bad.

I may have used the words “young studs” but during the conversation we were talking about NHL superstars and offer sheets such as Matthews and Marner. Most young studs get 5-6 year deals and the bonafide superstars get 7-8. We’re talking about the epic studs of the league. And it’s not me saying that the superstars may be looking at 5-6 year deals again, it’s the analysts at Sportsnet - which I did reference earlier. Again, we’re talking about the NHL elite. Not the 2nd tier Duchene/Evander Kane’s. I also acknowledged that the contract limitations and buyouts are RECENT. They happened in the last 2 CBAs. I also said that just because something happened twice that it means it’s going to happen forever and ever. Word for word “there might even be more buyouts, but I don’t see it.”

Obviously Chicago fans and Oiler fans (and maybe the Pens with that awful JJ signing) would want a buyout. But let’s be real here. The current CBA doesn’t expire until after the 2022 season. Maybe that’s something you know and maybe it’s not. After that season Seabs only has 2 years left (and may be looking at retirement, who knows), Lucic will only have 1 more season left, JJ will have 1 more season left, Zaitsev (who is likely long out of TO by then) will have 2 seasons left. So, where are these teams that are placing a huge concern on compliance buyouts that far out and how do they once again convince the NHLPA that buyouts are necessary and wanted? And the Owners aren’t stupid either. They know exactly which teams it will benefit and which it wont
- WSCTeton17

The current CBA is a 10-year deal, expiring after the 2021–22 season. The NHL can choose to opt out of the CBA on September 1, 2019(expiring in 2020). The NHLPA can choose to opt out of the CBA on September 19, 2019.

Do you have ADHD? Don't mean to be offensive but you are all over the place.

Still no example?

Analysts suck btw.

I respect that you have an advanced knowledge of some of these eastern teams. This is a blog site. I don’t expect everyone here to have the same level of hockey knowledge and that’s fine because it’s for fun. The Islanders and Bolts clearly have so many options and possibly the best for both is to just stand pat. I’m not an Islanders fan by any means, but losing out on Tavares sucked for them and I think Erik Karlsson and Panarin would fit in so well on the island.

I enjoy coming on these sites and going back and forth with proposals. Having said that, I don’t think there’s anything “fun” about Saad for Hamilton if you’re a Canes fan or a fan of any other team that wants Hamilton! He’s an unreal hockey player that is just kinda unique as a person. Maybe he grows out of it, idk. Further on that same point, I don’t think calling a guy like Zacha (former 6th overall pick but really looking like nothing more than average 3rd liner) has immense value while players that produce more with less ice time and provide other forms of value are somehow valued as less just because maybe you’re not familiar with a player *shrug*
- WSCTeton17

He has knowledge of one team. Tampa.

If we have learned anything after watching this group of forwards attempt to play defense is not maybe, just maybe, Sharp was far better defensively than then what some people believed.

He has knowledge of one team. Tampa.
- Elbows15

And so many thought Tampa was going to win last year, problem is their goalie sucked

Yes but defense can be learned, courage cannot
- BetweenTheDots

Maybe, maybe not. Defense is about effort and stops and starts. Knowing where to be and understanding where potential threat are coming from. Or if you prefer ice awareness. It also starts in the O-zone.

Strome lack of a burst really shows up on the defensive side of the game. His first step is bad.

If we have learned anything after watching this group of forwards attempt to play defense is not maybe, just maybe, Sharp was far better defensively than then what some people believed.
- Elbows15

Maybe... but Stan waited too long to trade him to Dallas. Stan passed over several offers that would have set up this franchise for continued success for decades to come.

And so many thought Tampa was going to win last year, problem is their goalie sucked
- BetweenTheDots

He thought they were going to win in 2015, too.

Maybe... but Stan waited too long to trade him to Dallas. Stan passed over several offers that would have set up this franchise for continued success for decades to come.
- DarthKane

Right. How could I forget. Didn't the old blogger here make up the fictional 2 2nds for Sharp?

Bowman has not been a good GM. Some of his deals look like they were drawn up by Chiarelli. The Hammer trade was bad as was the Saad trade. Failing to recoup picks included in those deals was poor management.

The Schmaltz trade was different in that he is absolutely going to be looking at a sizeable raise and the rumors I kept hearing is that the Hawks are gearing up to bring Panarin back so they wouldn’t have the cap space for Schmaltz and DeBrincat and Breadman plus a replacement goalie. Hammer wasn’t looking at a huge increase in salary and the savings of going from Hammer to Murphy wasn’t worth the difference in their level of play
- WSCTeton17

Agree to disagree on Bowman being the second coming of Chia. The Hammer trade didn't have to as much about the raise as what Hammer was already making, so even a bit of a bump in pay would mean you've got three dmen on the wrong side of 30, each making likely $5+ mildo.

The Hammer trade seemed more about selling high on a dman who had a lot of hard miles on him and arguably not so much tread on the tire for a younger dman with some upside.

the hawks were still trying to negotiate with him right up to the time he selected the rangers; they didn't want to trade his rights...and they had no rights he was a UFA
- bogiedoc

Hayes was not a UFA until a certain deadline was met. Your GM failed to secure the player by that deadline, which was 8/15/14, and then also failed to trade him by that deadline. He was a highly touted hockey player and many thought so, but so was Vesey and Nashville re-couped a 3rd for him. It’s my opinion that was poor asset management, I also believe the Panarin trade was poor asset management. I do not think the trades of old were poor based off how they were constructed - it just turned out that soo many of the prospects and draft picks they selected didn’t pan out at all, and that is something management takes blame for just like what we’re seeing in Edmonton right now. Sure, they have plenty of 1st rounders in their lineup but where are all the later round picks? Why is Tampa and other teams hitting on these and not others? Even looking back at the Hawks over the last decade outside of the 1st round: DeBrincat, Sikura, Motte, Hayden, Hinostroza, Shaw, Saad, Kruger, Pirri.

If you do the same for Edmonton you’ll find Khaira from way back in 2012, Rieder in 2011, Marincin and Pitlick are kinda reaches plus Pitlick was the very first pick of the 2nd round. That’s prettt abysmal if you ask me (which I know you’re not doing )

Pittsburgh: Gustavsson (you may not know him but he was a big piece in the Brassard trade, lots of hype there at the time), Sprong, Dominik Simon, Jarry, Guentzel, Murray, Sundqvist, Blugers (projected to be in the NHL next season, Harrington, Kuhnackle, Rust.

Kinda forget about some of these gems over time