I agree completely with your point. The salary cap and the players salaries do not balance out and IMO your starting to see a watered down league full of players called up to early which hurts their growth and future potential , all because teams are paying 4 to 8 players a salary of 6 to 11 million and having to surround them with to many entry level contracts or guys who should be playing in the beer league.
- Taylorst1

Well someone is being dramatic. Beer league? I’ve shared the ice with NHL players in the past and I play beer league in a league exclusively for former pro/Div 1 players and the difference is extremely significant. The league will continue to get younger because of the advanced training that the next generation is receiving at younger ages which is why we’re seeing 19 and 20 year olds dominate more frequently.

Players can continue to develop no matter what level they’re playing at. Some of the onus is on the player and some is on the coaching staff to help prepare them. Sure, there are some guys being called up but to say that there are enough of them to make a huge difference and call the entire league watered down sounds pretty foolish to me. We’ve already seen this the last time the cap kept jumping: salaries will go up but with the influx of young, cheap players coming with it you’ll see players every year like Brandon Pirri who can still play but have to rely on PTOs or 2-way deals. Tyler Ennis is another good example. Lots of older players that are on the downturn will end up signing for $1-2MM. Usually the first place you notice it is with older goalies. They often times can still perform at a high level but teams aren’t wanting to risk it so they find a place to play for $1MM. This happened to Boyes and Stempniak a lot through their careers. It was unfortunate because both were consistently solid middle 6 hockey players

Hammer for Murphy. Sorry it just is. For all the guff Bowman gets here for not pulling the trigger at the right time, or waiting too long to give players over to the glue factory, time has so far proven this to be a decent deal.

Strome and Perlini for Schmaltz. Most people seem to think he got this one right and I would agree.
- HawkintheD

Bowman has not been a good GM. Some of his deals look like they were drawn up by Chiarelli. The Hammer trade was bad as was the Saad trade. Failing to recoup picks included in those deals was poor management.

The Schmaltz trade was different in that he is absolutely going to be looking at a sizeable raise and the rumors I kept hearing is that the Hawks are gearing up to bring Panarin back so they wouldn’t have the cap space for Schmaltz and DeBrincat and Breadman plus a replacement goalie. Hammer wasn’t looking at a huge increase in salary and the savings of going from Hammer to Murphy wasn’t worth the difference in their level of play

Babcock loves kadri. Keith for 1st 3rd Rosen and grunstrom. Forsling or gust and 7th for zadorov
- Scott1977

The Leafs would likely give up a similar (not exact but in a familiar range) package for Faulk out of Carolina who’s right handed and younger or a larger package for Dougie Hamilton. Problem is that the Canes have asked for Kapanen and rn TO has made it clear that they’re not parting with Sandin or Kap - for good reason, those cheaper contracts are crucial to the future success of that franchise until they hit their big paydays

Maybe Stan can get Zaitsev but only if Dubas throws in Hyman and Brown in the deal.

That's some good bottom 6 talent. This will then allow Toronto to sign everybody have have an 8 year dynasty.
- scott.jackson

Could be splitting hairs but I would argue they’re both more middle 6 than bottom 6. They’re still young and could potentially become 2nd liners at some point. They’re also signed to good cap hits relative to their age/production. I dont think whoever gets Zaitsev will get both - but I do think they’ll get one and a pick

The Hawks didn't trade Hayes. He finished college, declined to sign with the Hawks became an FA and signed with the NYR instead.
- HawkintheD

Dude that’s even worse! Lol

But thanks for correcting me. I was looking at the history of the trades and going backwards. I knew I would mess something up but that’s even worse player management

SOmeone new to posting here must not get to talk at home!!!!! Even answers there own posts........WTF

Agree on smaltz trade strome looks like a keeper Perlini book still out on him. Bowman needs to think big though keith and saad only 2 pieces could get a big return. What contending teams need a power forward with cup winning experience same with keith. The teams i keep an eye on are Calgary buffalo Toronto Tampa san jose Winnipeg and pitt.
- Scott1977

Tampa has more power forwards then they can play.

Palat, Killorn, Miller, Erne.....

Bowman has not been a good GM. Some of his deals look like they were drawn up by Chiarelli. The Hammer trade was bad as was the Saad trade. Failing to recoup picks included in those deals was poor management.

The Schmaltz trade was different in that he is absolutely going to be looking at a sizeable raise and the rumors I kept hearing is that the Hawks are gearing up to bring Panarin back so they wouldn’t have the cap space for Schmaltz and DeBrincat and Breadman plus a replacement goalie. Hammer wasn’t looking at a huge increase in salary and the savings of going from Hammer to Murphy wasn’t worth the difference in their level of play
- WSCTeton17

completely disagree with you about both trades: 1. murphy (plus dauphin) for hammy was a hybrid trade both hockey and cap related

it exchanged a 30 year old with 2 years left on his contract for younger 24 year old with cost control for 4 years. hammy performance was notably slipping and he is no where the dman he once was. The hawks needed to get younger. Murphy had the potential to be a top 3 dman and it looks like that is being realized.

2. the saad trade was also a hybrid trade: they needed a big power forward type to replace hossa; saad was cost controlled...panarin contract had 2 years left and at the time it appeared it would be a reach to resign him...

motte went to CBJ and is long gone and the hawks got forsberg (still a potential nhl goalie) and a 2018 5th round pick...so you are wrong, a pick did come back to chicago who turned out to be MIKAEL HAKKARAINEN a finish center.

Dude that’s even worse! Lol

But thanks for correcting me. I was looking at the history of the trades and going backwards. I knew I would mess something up but that’s even worse player management
- WSCTeton17

no it is not...hayes was free agent after his college days and decided not to sign with the hawks...how is that a GM palyer management issue. He did not want to sign here.

Hammer for Murphy. Sorry it just is. For all the guff Bowman gets here for not pulling the trigger at the right time, or waiting too long to give players over to the glue factory, time has so far proven this to be a decent deal.

Strome and Perlini for Schmaltz. Most people seem to think he got this one right and I would agree.
- HawkintheD

Sit down for this. Perlini is a non-factor in this trade at this point. I suspect he never will be from what I have seen. HOWEVER, leaving Schmaltz injury out of the equation, it does appear to be a trade that benefited both players. Now, there are still some very troubling numbers from Strome on the defensive side of things but hopefully he can improve in those areas.

Sit down for this. Perlini is a non-factor in this trade at this point. I suspect he never will be from what I have seen. HOWEVER, leaving Schmaltz injury out of the equation, it does appear to be a trade that benefited both players. Now, there are still some very troubling numbers from Strome on the defensive side of things but hopefully he can improve in those areas.
- Elbows15

yes...a fair assessment of the transaction...stanbow went for a 2 for 1 as az wanted to mocve on from two of their former #1 picks...

Tampa has more power forwards then they can play.

Palat, Killorn, Miller, Erne.....
- TrueGrit

Good point tampa watching some of their games look like a complete team i could see them adding ferland type player or ferland himself
Just mentioning contending team maybe kunitz goes back there for a 6th or 7th round pick.

Dude that’s even worse! Lol

But thanks for correcting me. I was looking at the history of the trades and going backwards. I knew I would mess something up but that’s even worse player management
- WSCTeton17

Well, you also missed that the LAdd trade after 2010 was garbage and highlighted what some of us have been saying about cap space and the factor it plays in the quality of return.

You even gave an example when you mentioned a trade TB could make with Montreal. Armia and a 2nd for JT Miller. Armia is a bottom 6 PK guy. Useful for sure but Miller, as you mentioned, is a solid top 6 guy. The 2nd is irrelevant.

Could be splitting hairs but I would argue they’re both more middle 6 than bottom 6. They’re still young and could potentially become 2nd liners at some point. They’re also signed to good cap hits relative to their age/production. I dont think whoever gets Zaitsev will get both - but I do think they’ll get one and a pick
- WSCTeton17

Brown is a 4th line player. Zaitsev is just plain bad. Hyman, I will give you. Brown will never be a 2nd line player. HYman is best suited to a 3rd line hybrid role. He is 26. There is no magic growth left for him but he is on a good contract for his 35ish point he produces.

SOmeone new to posting here must not get to talk at home!!!!! Even answers there own posts........WTF
- Abadseed

I’m on leave for surgery. I quote my own posts to add additional context - my god, what a concept!

I’m so offended! Thanks for welcoming me with open arms.

I’m also not new here, I’m just not a regular

completely disagree with you about both trades: 1. murphy (plus dauphin) for hammy was a hybrid trade both hockey and cap related

it exchanged a 30 year old with 2 years left on his contract for younger 24 year old with cost control for 4 years. hammy performance was notably slipping and he is no where the dman he once was. The hawks needed to get younger. Murphy had the potential to be a top 3 dman and it looks like that is being realized.

2. the saad trade was also a hybrid trade: they needed a big power forward type to replace hossa; saad was cost controlled...panarin contract had 2 years left and at the time it appeared it would be a reach to resign him...

motte went to CBJ and is long gone and the hawks got forsberg (still a potential nhl goalie) and a 2018 5th round pick...so you are wrong, a pick did come back to chicago who turned out to be MIKAEL HAKKARAINEN a finish center.
- bogiedoc

Yeahhh, I’m talking about high end picks. You went from a potential 100 point player to a potential 50 point player. It was absolutely a bad trade and has always been regarded as such.

Hammer is still one of the better pure defenders in the league. TSN includes him in their articles every season. Where’s this evidence that he’s in decline? He’s been great in the desert. Since returning from injury his first year he’s been worth every penny

Sit down for this. Perlini is a non-factor in this trade at this point. I suspect he never will be from what I have seen. HOWEVER, leaving Schmaltz injury out of the equation, it does appear to be a trade that benefited both players. Now, there are still some very troubling numbers from Strome on the defensive side of things but hopefully he can improve in those areas.
- Elbows15

I would imagine they still try with Perlini and renew him this summer on the cheap. There are times where I can see why he got drafted where he did, but otherwise he is invisible. We can only hope something clicks with him. Not opposed to flipping him again in another change of scenery type deal, either, or including him in a bigger trade.

I think Strome is the other secret to the improved power play, and part of why the unit will still thrive if Gus gets traded.

no it is not...hayes was free agent after his college days and decided not to sign with the hawks...how is that a GM palyer management issue. He did not want to sign here.
- bogiedoc

Sooo you’re saying his rights are absolutely worthless at that point? You know who else didn’t want to sign with their teams at young ages? Jack Johnson, Eric Lindros

You want examples of more college players? Sure. How about Justin Schultz. The Ducks were willing to trade Schultz and get something for nothing but apparently he led them on so they couldn’t. Another one is Jimmy Vesey: he wasn’t even a 1st rounder, he was a 3rd rounder who had a great college career and was sent to Buffalo for a 3rd rounder. I would say that’s pretty good asset management by Poile, wouldn’t you agree? Or are you of the opinion that a 3rd round pick is absolutely meaningless?

Yeahhh, I’m talking about high end picks. You went from a potential 100 point player to a potential 50 point player. It was absolutely a bad trade and has always been regarded as such.

Hammer is still one of the better pure defenders in the league. TSN includes him in their articles every season. Where’s this evidence that he’s in decline? He’s been great in the desert. Since returning from injury his first year he’s been worth every penny
- WSCTeton17

Regarding Panarin, the reason to keep him was his rental value when his contract is expiring, if they were really worried about not being able to keep him. He is going to get a king's ransom if he gets dealt at the TDL. They can't possibly get that with Saad now. Seems Bowman really overthought this trade, unless there is a reason we don't know for this trade having happened.

Sit down for this. Perlini is a non-factor in this trade at this point. I suspect he never will be from what I have seen. HOWEVER, leaving Schmaltz injury out of the equation, it does appear to be a trade that benefited both players. Now, there are still some very troubling numbers from Strome on the defensive side of things but hopefully he can improve in those areas.
- Elbows15

I think now that Strome knows he’s in a position where he can succeed that he’s going to have a really strong offseason and come back as the 2C you’re hoping he’ll be next season. A lot of people in the desert were calling him a bust and he knows it. I hope he proves them wrong

yes...a fair assessment of the transaction...stanbow went for a 2 for 1 as az wanted to mocve on from two of their former #1 picks...
- bogiedoc

Not to mince words, but another top 6 forward was needed in the desert and in schmaltz they got one. I don’t think it was necessarily that Chayka called Bowman and said “here’s what I’m offering what will you give me” as much as it was that this is what it took to get him. I still think it’s going to work out for both sides

I have to disagree. We have a hard cap and now we have limits on the length of contracts and there are limits on how much you can pay a player. Teams have learned not to hand out NTCs all over the place. They made the nets smaller. We have video review. There are cameras at the blue lines now for offsides. They’re working on puck and player tracking. They’re looking into smaller goalie pads (the new gloves look funny, it’s unnecessary imo). And now they’re talking about teams looking to give young studs coming out of their ELCs 5-6 year deals (like Tavares signed back in the day) instead of 8-year deals for big money. There’s evolution everywhere whether it’s with the play on the ice, management, team construction. There might even be more buyouts, but I don’t see it. I think the Oilers are stuck with Lucic unless they want to pay a team to take him on or work it into their structure somehow

Honestly, the Oilers can make it work too. They need an experienced backup on the cheap, like McElhinney. They need to spread their scoring out as well. Maroon was a good fit before, no reason to think he won’t be good with McDavid again. Chiasson has been an ok fit. Panik seems like a similar player that has experience playing with high end talent. I think a player like MoJo would be a great player for the Oilers to take a flyer on in the offseason (or even this year with salary retained or if they’ll take back Spooner and maybe a 2nd rounder). The options are there but they’d need to get lucky and creative
- WSCTeton17

Boy do you cast wide net, I'm not talking about the game itself or technology or even contract limits. If you do your research teams have always only given 4-6 year deals on RFA who get a hefty pay raise its rare for anyone getting a 8 year deal on a RFA, you make it sound like it's a new trend. BTW the limits came at the last cba. They cleaned up some of the loop holes like Keith's contract. And when the cba is negotiated again they will clean other things up. The only thing the teams competing for a SC are most of them are pressed against the cap and i truly believe there will be one or two compliance buy outs available to these teams. But again we'll see and again im talking about the relationship to the hard cap, contracts, and teams who have to shed salary always have to give more to get rid of, and again just give me 1 example where this isn't true, just one, not a political novel which goes completely off course.

Stay in your lane bro

Sit down for this. Perlini is a non-factor in this trade at this point. I suspect he never will be from what I have seen. HOWEVER, leaving Schmaltz injury out of the equation, it does appear to be a trade that benefited both players. Now, there are still some very troubling numbers from Strome on the defensive side of things but hopefully he can improve in those areas.
- Elbows15

Yes but defense can be learned, courage cannot

Well, you also missed that the LAdd trade after 2010 was garbage and highlighted what some of us have been saying about cap space and the factor it plays in the quality of return.

You even gave an example when you mentioned a trade TB could make with Montreal. Armia and a 2nd for JT Miller. Armia is a bottom 6 PK guy. Useful for sure but Miller, as you mentioned, is a solid top 6 guy. The 2nd is irrelevant.
- Elbows15

That’s the whole point of the trade now isn’t it. Nobody is going to give Tampa a 2nd liner in return and they also don’t need it. Tampa already has way too much talent up front. Montreal’s 2nd could be a top 50 pick in the draft. Do you not realize how many studs were drafted that late or later? It’s a lot. Armia is also a solid bottom 6 option who would fit right in with Tampa which is why I targeted him. He’s young, effective, cost controlled, and he knows his role. He’s literally the perfect target

Someone else mentioned Ferland in Tampa. Ferland doesn’t make sense because he’s a pure support player. He relies on star talent. Tampa doesn’t have room for him as it is and they’re rolling on all cylinders. It doesn’t make sense.

JT Miller is a big cost to give up but he’s also a huge luxury for them. He’s on their 3rd line! This is a great problem to have for Tampa. I also already told you, salaries in the NHL have only gone up 25% since 2010 but the cap has gone up 40%. There’s a huge gap there AND there’s more teams willing to take those cap dumps this offseason. If you think a stud like Sergachev goes with Callahan then you’re sadly mistaken

I also went over the Ladd trade. Prior to the trade Ladd was a 3rd liner who had 1 season as a 2nd liner. In exchange for Ladd you got the #36 overall pick and a former #27 overall pick while you were in cap hell. That’s Bowman’s fault that he accepted Ivan and drafted Clendening and no one else’s.

The Bolts are not in cap hell, the Jets are not in Cap hell, and the Leafs may be inching towards cap hell but they have many options as well. The Hawks were also burdened with the overage of the MVP bonus which none of these teams have yet. When you signed Hossa you put yourselves in cap hell and gave yourselves the opportunity to win and then sell off and collect futures. Your management team didn’t do a great job of selling off but those returns were not awful.

The Bickell/TT trade sucked to have happened but Bickell was entirely useless. He’s not comparable to Zaitsev who logs 20 minutes a night or Callahan who’s still producing at an NHL level. TT also wasn’t a bonafide Star at the time of the trade. He put up 35 points. Obviously the potential was there, but then again that’s what you thought about Bickell as well

IMO in the next cba talks should be talks of more emphasis on keeping your players that have been drafted and develop and if you drafted by a team you have to play for that team refering to the college and CHL players. Some lee way in the cap rules still have a hard cap but maybe a luxery tax type rule with a predetermined limit.
- Scott1977

CAP hit discount for resigning players you drafted (for instance, for the Hawks, DCat, not Strome). Pick the %, probably something between 10-20%.