Both cj and Nelson had a better opportunity to catch on with a team lacking talented forwards. (Past few Sabres teams)

Short sighted vs. a longer approach

I would sign with a team where an immediate opportunity to play in the nhl is dangled in front of me.

Long term, buffalo could have some spots opening up?

Behind: cj, asplund, mallone, nylander
- Boss34

Good points. I guess it depends on what these kids are looking at, do they need more development at the AHL level with a team or not. I'm not sure any of them can make the jump to an NHL team too quickly and will need time in the minors so it can be more of a long term situation.

You can never have enough good d men in your system and that's why I would like Duszak.

Nelson is a D-man.
- jochfr

Yes: thank you for the correction

He did get the immediate opportunity to step in and play defense for the Sabres

yes

I was drinking pain killers with breakfast, moulsons in the afternoon with shots

crown and ginger ale in the evening

I averaged 22 drinks a day for the 10 days

I give myself a B+
- homiedclown

Solid, you grade very tough. I'd move it up to an A-+...THAT IS a-Minus-Plus.
Dump the Ginger Ale and bang a Ginger gets you to the A++
Just not trying hard enough...I am happy to help on next try.

About 5 years ago, we had a family cruise with my wife's family...23 of us...great time!
My wife and I bought the drink package for whatever...$300 each maybe?
Night of departure at 1:00AM I'm up on the top de k with a double Bookers/Baker'ss Bourbon and a nice cuban cigar with my son...
Up comes my Mother-in-law (awesome person) with my Brother-in-law (even better person) ... my M-I-L says after a couple minutes... so do you think you will get your moneys worth from the drink package?
My answer was, "well the bar opened at 4:00pm, and this is my 12th straight-Bourbon clean with 1 small cube), a couple were doubles...this is pretty top-shelf..so maybe $10.00.-$12.00 a glass each at a nice bar ... ya, I think I'll do ok!"
Her jaw literally dropped, and she mumbled oh-jez u der her breath
Brother-in-law had to walk away laughing his ass off!
(Probably had equivalent of $135 of bourbon that night retail bar value ---Fitz you can calculate better).
Cleared the $300 bar the second day.
Spent money on Gonja and Blow. ... vacation of a lifetime

Or you know the Seth Jones fallacy, but the Franson one works for your point
- sbroads24

I mean Chimera is basically Eichel minus the ice time, so...

Good points. I guess it depends on what these kids are looking at, do they need more development at the AHL level with a team or not. I'm not sure any of them can make the jump to an NHL team too quickly and will need time in the minors so it can be more of a long term situation.

You can never have enough good d men in your system and that's why I would like Duszak.
- mhp

I agree:

Botts really likes college players, I'm sure he has a few guys in mind.

I'll keep an eye out for Duszak. I appreciate the prospects updates.

I remember drake caggalio? Sp? Wanting the opportunity to play with McDavid. So he chose Edmonton, if I remember correctly?

Hopefully players look at eichel and dahlin the same way.

I mean Chimera is basically Eichel minus the ice time, so...
- Wetbandit1

But that was 1 year of Eichel as an 18-19 year old.

This is 5 years of Ristolainen producing the same way

I agree:

Botts really likes college players, I'm sure he has a few guys in mind.

I'll keep an eye out for Duszak. I appreciate the prospects updates.

I remember drake caggalio? Sp? Wanting the opportunity to play with McDavid. So he chose Edmonton, if I remember correctly?

Hopefully players look at eichel and dahlin the same way.
- Boss34

I liked Caggiula a lot too. He was an absolute force at ND, especially his last year there. And Edmonton traded him to Chicago earlier this year.

But that was 1 year of Eichel as an 18-19 year old.

This is 5 years of Ristolainen producing the same way
- sbroads24

Do you dislike risto as a player?

Or it the advanced stats that project him as a negative player that bothers you?

As a Sabres fan, he is my favorite defensman (except dahlin) in the past 10-15 years. Maybe since zitnik?

Does it all- except play shut down defense.
His whole career has been based around losing on purpose. With inferior pairing mates.

To me: tough to play against, is a big requirement. Maybe I'm putting too much into his physical play?
At the games, he's awesome to watch. Makes it more fun to go and enjoy.

I liked Caggiula a lot too. He was an absolute force at ND, especially his last year there. And Edmonton traded him to Chicago earlier this year.
- mhp

Drake wanted to play with McDavid
McDavid didnt want to play with him?

😀

Do you dislike risto as a player?

Or it the advanced stats that project him as a negative player that bothers you?

As a Sabres fan, he is my favorite defensman (except dahlin) in the past 10-15 years. Maybe since zitnik?

Does it all- except play shut down defense.
His whole career has been based around losing on purpose. With inferior pairing mates.

To me: tough to play against, is a big requirement. Maybe I'm putting too much into his physical play?
At the games, he's awesome to watch. Makes it more fun to go and enjoy.
- Boss34

my favorite d men in the last 25 years, as sabres (not counting dahlin )

1. soupy
2. woolley
3. zhitnik
4. risto
5. spacek or teppo by default because the list should have 5

Do you dislike risto as a player?

Or it the advanced stats that project him as a negative player that bothers you?

As a Sabres fan, he is my favorite defensman (except dahlin) in the past 10-15 years. Maybe since zitnik?

Does it all- except play shut down defense.
His whole career has been based around losing on purpose. With inferior pairing mates.

To me: tough to play against, is a big requirement. Maybe I'm putting too much into his physical play?
At the games, he's awesome to watch. Makes it more fun to go and enjoy.
- Boss34

I don’t dislike him. I think he’s an ok second pairing player.

I dislike the notion he’s some stud. He just isn’t. He doesn’t drive offensive play, and is below average in legitimately every defensive measurement available.

He has a knack for making some spectacular plays, but just isn’t that good of an overall player.

If he played 18-19 minutes a game he and the Sabres would be better off

I disagree.

So your blaming:
Sam
Eichel
Skinner
Risto
Dahlin.

I'm pretty sure there's enough skill and talent to be a top half nhl pp.

Are you implying these players are not good at hockey with a man advantage?

Agree to disagree
- Boss34

Yes, I'm blaming the players. 100%. I see terrible execution and lazy play. Missed shots, forced passes, stupid turnovers, lost battles....I see poor play.

I'm still curious why you jump straight to poor coaching.

my favorite d men in the last 25 years, as sabres (not counting dahlin )

1. soupy
2. woolley
3. zhitnik
4. risto
5. spacek or teppo by default because the list should have 5
- homiedclown

I can appreciate your list.

Myers was fun for a year or 2
Tallinder/lydman combo

Soupy
Zhitnik
Risto


Honerable mention: past 30 years

Mike Ramsey
Dean Kennedy
Bob Bougner
Rhett Warner
Jay wells

Yes, I'm blaming the players. 100%. I see terrible execution and lazy play. Missed shots, forced passes, stupid turnovers, lost battles....I see poor play.

I'm still curious why you jump straight to poor coaching.
- Lunaion

I think we have the talent, just something is misfiring.

You brought up some good points. I'm not %100 saying it's the coaching, but.....

Terrible execution is on the players at times.

The whole system bothers me: where we wait for eichel to carry play in past the blue line.

3 or 4 guys not in motion: waiting for eichel to carry the puck past them.
Sometimes dumping and chasing on the pp would loosen up the d?

Why isnt eichel in the "Ovechkin " face off spot, ripping shots?
I like sam with the 1 touch pass from besides the net - too out front. Doesn't happen enough.

And : why isnt pommer one of the 5 guys on the 2nd pp?
4th leading goal scorer?
That's really what he can still do , in my opinion.
Okposo gets time on the pp?
Tage too?

I think we have the talent, just something is misfiring.

You brought up some good points. I'm not %100 saying it's the coaching, but.....

Terrible execution is on the players at times.

The whole system bothers me: where we wait for eichel to carry play in past the blue line.

3 or 4 guys not in motion: waiting for eichel to carry the puck past them.
Sometimes dumping and chasing on the pp would loosen up the d?

Why isnt eichel in the "Ovechkin " face off spot, ripping shots?
I like sam with the 1 touch pass from besides the net - too out front. Doesn't happen enough.

And : why isnt pommer one of the 5 guys on the 2nd pp?
4th leading goal scorer?
That's really what he can still do , in my opinion.
Okposo gets time on the pp?
Tage too?
- Boss34

I don’t like the system either but once Dahlin is firing on all cylinders we will be fine

But that was 1 year of Eichel as an 18-19 year old.

This is 5 years of Ristolainen producing the same way
- sbroads24

I agree Risto plays probably 4-5 minutes too many. I do not think you'd see a significant decrease in his points. It's not nearly as black and white as you suggest. That's the problem with trying to quantify the unquantifiable. Hockey is infinitely more complex than baseball. The fact that luck might be the biggest contributor to success, especially over the short term(~20 games), leads to absurdities such as the Chimera Eichel comparison, whenever it happened when the eye-test knew it was ludicrous to even suggest it.

I agree Risto plays probably 4-5 minutes too many. I do not think you'd see a significant decrease in his points. It's not nearly as black and white as you suggest. That's the problem with trying to quantify the unquantifiable. Hockey is infinitely more complex than baseball. The fact that luck might be the biggest contributor to success, especially over the short term(~20 games), leads to absurdities such as the Chimera Eichel comparison, whenever it happened when the eye-test knew it was ludicrous to even suggest it.
- Wetbandit1

If he stopped getting #1 PP time we would.

But that’s my point, it’s not like the dude is putting up crazy 5 on 5 numbers.

The ice time he gets + PP is that of a 60 point D man

The level of quality is certainly debatable
- sbroads24

Not as debatable as you seem to think it is. This eagerness to trade Risto is baffling to me. I'm not gonna say don't do it, because for the right deal you sure do, but scoring RH defenseman that can play 24 minutes a game, and lead the league in hits are rare commodities. A lot more rare than a quality 2C.

Not as debatable as you seem to think it is. This eagerness to trade Risto is baffling to me. I'm not gonna say don't do it, because for the right deal you sure do, but scoring RH defenseman that can play 24 minutes a game, and lead the league in hits are rare commodities. A lot more rare than a quality 2C.
- SoCalPucks

I’m not saying trade him for anything, I’m saying sell high for a really good player if you can.

The debatable part is whether him playing 24 min is good for the Sabres

I’m not saying trade him for anything, I’m saying sell high for a really good player if you can.

The debatable part is whether him playing 24 min is good for the Sabres
- sbroads24

Fair. I guess the qualifier for me is whether you can find a replacement. Remove Risto from the D-corps and what is currently a strength becomes another need that needs to be addressed almost immediately.

I can appreciate your list.

Myers was fun for a year or 2
Tallinder/lydman combo

Soupy
Zhitnik
Risto


Honerable mention: past 30 years

Mike Ramsey
Dean Kennedy
Bob Bougner
Rhett Warner
Jay wells
- Boss34

if we are going to the mid 80's Rammer tops my list

Boogie man also gets a top 5 slot

Nelson is Da-man.
- jochfr

Preach brother

If he stopped getting #1 PP time we would.

But that’s my point, it’s not like the dude is putting up crazy 5 on 5 numbers.

The ice time he gets + PP is that of a 60 point D man
- sbroads24

I'm not sure he will. We all thought that once Dahlin was put there he'd be gone, but that's not the case.

He may well end up being taken off, but everything we know today says he won't.

I think we have the talent, just something is misfiring.

You brought up some good points. I'm not %100 saying it's the coaching, but.....

Terrible execution is on the players at times.

The whole system bothers me: where we wait for eichel to carry play in past the blue line.

3 or 4 guys not in motion: waiting for eichel to carry the puck past them.
Sometimes dumping and chasing on the pp would loosen up the d?

Why isnt eichel in the "Ovechkin " face off spot, ripping shots?
I like sam with the 1 touch pass from besides the net - too out front. Doesn't happen enough.

And : why isnt pommer one of the 5 guys on the 2nd pp?
4th leading goal scorer?
That's really what he can still do , in my opinion.
Okposo gets time on the pp?
Tage too?
- Boss34

If you dump the puck, you're really asking Sam and Skinner to win puck battles. Neither are good at it.

Eichel is their best play maker and shooter, but he really isn't a consistent shooter and everyone in the NHL, dating back to Bob Woods, knows that's the #1 option and cheats towards it.

Phil's tried other options for the other 4 spots on the ice and nothing has really clicked. I don't think he has good options. Skinner is not great PP guy, and never has been. Sam's very easy to defend. We're really counting on a rookie D to step in as a shooting forward and be our #2 threat....and the kid is good enough that he's going to make it work.

I’m not saying trade him for anything, I’m saying sell high for a really good player if you can.

The debatable part is whether him playing 24 min is good for the Sabres
- sbroads24

You can trade any player and sell high. (If the offers right)

Risto is no different.

Why keep beating the trade risto drum?
He's a likeable player that:
Scores
Plays tough
Hits
Blocks shots
Eats minutes
Young
Good contract
Pp and 3x3 player

Strange that a Sabres fan wants to trade that away?