I would absolutely, 100%, take the odd Jake mistake. I would love the odd Jake mistake
- walshyleafsfan

Saying he makes brain cramps isn’t enough man.

I’ll take those every now and then if it means the Leafs play better in all areas when he’s on the ice.

I want the Leafs to win. Getting scored on less and getting shot on less. Yeah. That’s kinda how you win.

Oh.
- Fakepartofme

Read the stats.

It’s not hard.

how can the Leafs get Doogy Hamilton without giving up the obvious core plus
Kap, Willy, Johnsson, Dermott and 1st

also Prospects id prefer to keep, Bracco, Grundstrom, Sandin and lilygrin

make a package of Gardiner, Zaitsev, Brown, Gauthier, Rosen, Timashov, Brooks, Borgman....whoever else and picks (not 1st)
- senstroll

I think The Canes would want at least a roster player, a prospect and a draft pick.
You'll need to give to get.


Gardiner, Johnsson and 2nd rnd pck 2019.
But I think they would want Kapanen instead of Johnsson

why would Hamilton be available after not even 1 full season in Carolina?

I can live with that..just prefer not of course
- senstroll

Well ya.
But no gm (not named chia) will part with a top 4 dman without at least getting a top 6 forward, or top prospect with a 1st.
At least i would think.

But ive been wrong before.

which is good news i guess since he'll be spending every minute of every shift in his own end because nobody can cleanly get the puck up the ice!
- daeth

But it’s okay because we will have a defensively sound d man to be in position to clear it off the glass so the other team can get possession and do it all over again.

I think The Canes would want at least a roster player, a prospect and a draft pick.
You'll need to give to get.


Gardiner, Johnsson and 2nd rnd pck 2019.
But I think they would want Kapanen instead of Johnsson

why would Hamilton be available after not even 1 full season in Carolina?
- zazzle

apparently he is available. not sure we will find out why he is again.. but doesnt that diminish his value a bit

my offer would be Jake, Brown and 1st ..or sub in NZ ..

Jake is a UFA maybe they can sign him to a Hamilton type number

But it’s okay because we will have a defensively sound d man to be in position to clear it off the glass so the other team can get possession and do it all over again.
- Santo_44

how many people that hate gardiner want the leafs to get hamilton? hamilton will give them an aneurysm.

apparently he is available. not sure we will find out why he is again.. but doesnt that diminish his value a bit

my offer would be Jake, Brown and 1st ..or sub in NZ ..

Jake is a UFA maybe they can sign him to a Hamilton type number
- senstroll

not a hamilton guy

Seeing how the Leafs have played since he has been back, I am glad they didnt

They can still prop up the right side D anyways..just need a bit more creativity and maybe a dumb GM
- senstroll

ok.

Saying he makes brain cramps isn’t enough man.

I’ll take those every now and then if it means the Leafs play better in all areas when he’s on the ice.

I want the Leafs to win. Getting scored on less and getting shot on less. Yeah. That’s kinda how you win.
- Santo_44

As I said. I'd take those errors every now and then. Nobody has ever accused Jake Gardiner or making the odd mistake. His name is synonymous with making a mistake every now and then.

I believe Dermott and Ozhiganov have some great advanced stats for the Leafs. Corsi for and all that jazz.

how many people that hate gardiner want the leafs to get hamilton? hamilton will give them an aneurysm.
- daeth

Oh for sure. Even worse than Gardiner would.

He takes nights off and his work ethic is questioned.

Its the same poop we hear about Karlsonn. Apparently he sucks because he is a puck mover and happens to give the puck away sometimes. What would you rather have? Someone who always knocks it off the glass and have the other team possess it and regroup? Thats a (frank)ing giveaway right there.

Read the stats.

It’s not hard.
- Santo_44

Considering the lack of quality D depth the leafs have, yes its easy to say they are better with gards on the ice....compared to say having Z out there.
Great. Thats....thats awesome. I guess
But, hes not worth the money he'll get, he could be replaced with someone who might get 10-15 pts less but is better in their own end and better decision making.
Gardiner makes too many of the same dumb mistakes over and over again for a 7 year vet.
He'll be gone next year.
Lili may be up, dubas will bring someone else in.

As I said. I'd take those errors every now and then. Nobody has ever accused Jake Gardiner or making the odd mistake. His name is synonymous with making a mistake every now and then.

I believe Dermott and Ozhiganov have some great advanced stats for the Leafs. Corsi for and all that jazz.
- walshyleafsfan

When you take into account they face the scraps of teams every night it isn't as impressive.

When you take into account they face the scraps of teams every night it isn't as impressive.
- Santo_44

Supposedly quality of competition/teammate doesn't mean anything in the NHL...it all averages or something like that yada yada yada.

Considering the lack of quality D depth the leafs have, yes its easy to say they are better with gards on the ice....compared to say having Z out there.
Great. Thats....thats awesome. I guess
But, hes not worth the money he'll get, he could be replaced with someone who might get 10-15 pts less but is better in their own end and better decision making.
Gardiner makes too many of the same dumb mistakes over and over again for a 7 year vet.
He'll be gone next year.
Lili may be up, dubas will bring someone else in.
- Fakepartofme

So these "dumb" mistakes leads to less shots on goal, less goals against, more goals for, more shots for.........I love when people try to argue facts with bull poop. No one is comparing gards stats to the rest of the team...they compare him to the rest of the league.

I am not arguing he will be gone. Dubas will have to find a replacement. However it wont come from within...a good replacement at least.

Supposedly quality of competition/teammate doesn't mean anything in the NHL...it all averages or something like that yada yada yada.
- Garnie

Yeah, I don't know why people would say it doesn't matter.

Studies show that quality of teammates has a greater effect over quality of comp but that is about it.

apparently he is available. not sure we will find out why he is again.. but doesnt that diminish his value a bit

my offer would be Jake, Brown and 1st ..or sub in NZ ..

Jake is a UFA maybe they can sign him to a Hamilton type number
- senstroll

I think the fact they have 5 top 4 d men is a little much.

I think they trade one for a forward. I think any conversation with the Leafs has to be Kapanen...They love their fins over there.

Kap for Pesce makes sense. some picks can be thrown around to even things out. Both teams don't like what they are giving up which probably means its fair.

When you take into account they face the scraps of teams every night it isn't as impressive.
- Santo_44

The scraps of the NHL? Really?

Anywho, Jake won't be our issue starting next year, so it'll be a moot point.

not a hamilton guy
- daeth

The guy gets a ton of shots on net, 4th for D in the league.

I'm not sure about him either, haven't watched him close enough to know about his game and why it's not helping the Canes score/win more.

I miss Julie. We had some good times together.

Like the time she complained to her mother about me, because I corrected her grammar.

Or the time she asked her loyal readers to explain to her the differences between international hockey and north american hockey.

In the immortal words of Whitney Houston, "Didn't we almost have it all?"
- Atomic Wedgie

Misogynist.

So these "dumb" mistakes leads to less shots on goal, less goals against, more goals for, more shots for.........I love when people try to argue facts with bull poop. No one is comparing gards stats to the rest of the team...they compare him to the rest of the league.

I am not arguing he will be gone. Dubas will have to find a replacement. However it wont come from within...a good replacement at least.
- Santo_44

Oh so now you can see into the future? You know what our prospects will turn into? Well do tell.
Gards is gone, so it really matter to me.

Has he improved this year, ya...finally...but his lack of IQ in his own end, still eye opening.
He'll help the leafs at times this year and hurt them at others.
But to say the leafs have no good replacements in the pipeline is foolish. Next season lili or someone else could step in. I wouldnt mind another season of lili in the ahl, but who knows what will happen in camp or the off season.

The scraps of the NHL? Really?

Anywho, Jake won't be our issue starting next year, so it'll be a moot point.
- walshyleafsfan

Exactly.

Yeah, I don't know why people would say it doesn't matter.

Studies show that quality of teammates has a greater effect over quality of comp but that is about it.
- Santo_44

Typically, I'll accept Gardiner's mistakes, and have recognized in the past that he has greater value to the team when he's playing fluid. Yes, he makes some horrible mistakes. But he also creates some great chances.

This year, however, he has not. He's either been reigned in by someone, or he's trying to reign himself in. And it's not working. He is not creating dynamic chances, and he does rush the puck, he's giving up on the play - because he's afraid to be out of position.

His GAR stats this year show a guy who is basically at -.14 - which is way lower than any of his previous years. To contrast that, Rielly is at 5.85, Demott is at 3.06, Ozhiganov is at 0, Zaitsev is -.36 and Hainsey is, unsurpisingly, -3.69.

That being said, right NOW, these are the other defensemen who have a GAR of -.14: Doughty, Hedman and Kampfer. Don't know much about Kampfer, but we've all sort of heard of the other two.

The point is that right NOW, Gardiner is not playing like Gardiner. He isn't bringing to the table what makes him worth keeping. If he doesn't bring the dynamic gameplay but just brings the brain farts, he is not worth keeping.

Typically, I'll accept Gardiner's mistakes, and have recognized in the past that he has greater value to the team when he's playing fluid. Yes, he makes some horrible mistakes. But he also creates some great chances.

This year, however, he has not. He's either been reigned in by someone, or he's trying to reign himself in. And it's not working. He is not creating dynamic chances, and he does rush the puck, he's giving up on the play - because he's afraid to be out of position.

His GAR stats this year show a guy who is basically at -.14 - which is way lower than any of his previous years. To contrast that, Rielly is at 5.85, Demott is at 3.06, Ozhiganov is at 0, Zaitsev is -.36 and Hainsey is, unsurpisingly, -3.69.

That being said, right NOW, these are the other defensemen who have a GAR of -.14: Doughty, Hedman and Kampfer. Don't know much about Kampfer, but we've all sort of heard of the other two.

The point is that right NOW, Gardiner is not playing like Gardiner. He isn't bringing to the table what makes him worth keeping. If he doesn't bring the dynamic gameplay but just brings the brain farts, he is not worth keeping.
- Monkeypunk

I dont think they can afford him either way. Unless he signs for under 5.5. I dont see that

The guy gets a ton of shots on net, 4th for D in the league.

I'm not sure about him either, haven't watched him close enough to know about his game and why it's not helping the Canes score/win more.
- Garnie

he's been a lot better recently but he started the season playing like poop. he's probably their 3rd best dman