I want to win a cup. Not make the playoffs. Hurray we get to play an extra 4-5 games this year if we make the playoffs. Why do you think Botts is sitting on his hands doing nothing ? I’m sure he feels the same way and he’s won 3 cups using the method I’m suggesting.
- Pegullaville

Can't win the cup without making the playoffs. Anyone who ever had a long term goal knows you set short term goals to obtain your long term goal.

He has won ZERO cups as a GM.



And you don't even know what you are talking about because Pittsburgh traded for Phil Kessel. Pittsburgh made trades. What system exactly are you talking about???


The Penguins made 4-5 trades each year and the farm team sucked for years when they won the cup.

The penguins trades involved Neal, Kessel, Staal, Sutter and Iginla to name a few.

Lockport police are searching for the suspect in an early morning robbery at the 7-Eleven at 95 S. Transit St.

Police were called to the business about 2:15 a.m. for a report of a robbery and while en route, officers were notified that the suspect had ran from the store and was heading south on S. Transit Street.

An employee told officers that he and another man were working in the store when the suspect came in dressed all in black with a black mask over his face and windbreaker hood pulled low over his forehead. The employees also noted that the man wasn’t wearing any shoes.

Can't win the cup without making the playoffs. Anyone who ever had a long term goal knows you set short term goals to obtain your long term goal.

He has won ZERO cups as a GM.

With your analogy I guess we should have kept Jordan Nolan on the team since he has a shiny ring on his finger.

And you don't even know what you are talking about because Pittsburgh traded for Phil Kessel.
- sabresfan69

Do you read at all ? Or just parts of a post ? I specifically said draft high, sign free agents, and then make the trade for the final piece. Kessel was the final piece of the puzzle there. Pittsburgh drafted 4 times in the top 3 almost consecutively. Malkin, Crosby (yes they got lucky and won the lottery), Staal, Fluerry. They had a solid roster foundation before they started making trades every year. We don’t have a solid foundation yet.

Do you read at all ? Or just parts of a post ? I specifically said draft high, sign free agents, and then make the trade for the final piece. Kessel was the final piece of the puzzle there.
- Pegullaville

Kessel wasn't the final piece because they won the cup 2 times before. Kessel was an add on.

Can you please tell me in the last 10 years which of those 1st round draft picks have had a major impact on the penguins?

They have had god awful drafting in the 1st round and just traded Sprong away, Despres? Bennett? Morrow? Pouliot? Kapenen? Which one of those are you talking about that helped them win the cup?

Pittsburgh traded away 5 of their 1st in the last 6 drafts.

That is 10 years of drafting right there without one 1st round draft pick making an impact.

What free agents that they signed helped them win the cup in the last 10 years?

My god what are you even talking about?

Its called Crosby and Malkin.

My Cosby and Malkin is Eichel and Duchene with a Mitts playing the Staal role like in their first cup

EDIT: Sorry maybe I miss understood you, when you said draft high you meant the higher rounds? 2nd, 3rd and 4th?

There’s no reason they can’t try and do both.

A solid 2nd-3rd line tweener could be (theoretically) had for something other than a 1st rounder, which could help the playoff push, plus not give up one of our firsts.

Minnesota could use a D man.

One of our million LD + a decent asset could net us Coyle possibly.

Anaheim is looking to deal a forward.

They could add a guy who could make us marginally better to push for the playoffs

There’s no reason they can’t try and do both.

A solid 2nd-3rd line tweener could be (theoretically) had for something other than a 1st rounder, which could help the playoff push, plus not give up one of our firsts.

Minnesota could use a D man.

One of our million LD + a decent asset could net us Coyle possibly.

Anaheim is looking to deal a forward.

They could add a guy who could make us marginally better to push for the playoffs
- sbroads24

If we are looking at free agency I would be looking at Brock Nelson. He is 26 a solid 20 goal scorer and responsible defensively. He will be an UFA but again he will probably get 6m at UFA when you can probably pay Duchene 8m. I would try to get Duchene because we can get a deal in place before he hits UFA. When he hits UFA I don't see him coming here because some numbskull GM will probably give him 9+

I don't like our chances at UFA because history tells us so. Sure players will come here but we have always had to pay more. Yes we are on the rise but that only means so much.

Kessel wasn't the final piece because they won the cup 2 times before. Kessel was an add on.

Can you please tell me in the last 10 years which of those 1st round draft picks have had a major impact on the penguins?

They have had god awful drafting in the 1st round and just traded Sprong away, Despres? Bennett? Morrow? Pouliot? Kapenen? Which one of those are you talking about that helped them win the cup?

Pittsburgh traded away 5 of their 1st in the last 6 drafts.

My god what are you even talking about?
- sabresfan69

Crosby, Malkin. Staal (for the first cup), Fluery (first cup and assisted in the other two). Without those guys you don’t win cups.

Washington had Ovi, Backstrom, Vrana, Wilson, Kuznetsov (would have been a top 10 pick if it wasn’t for Russian factor) and Carlson.

LA drafted Doughty 2nd overall, Anne Kopitar was a 11th overall pick. Dustin brown was top 12. Brayden Schenn was picked 5th overall and was the key piece in the trade to bring in Mike Richards. To acquire Jeff Carter the kings used a first round pick and former 3rd overall pick Jack Johnson who as acquired by LA a couple years earlier as he didn’t want to sign in Carolina. Kings don’t make those trades without those highly drafted players.

I see a recurring theme here. I see a recurring theme also with the so called cup contenders Nashville, Tampa, Winnipeg, Toronto.

Draft top 15, develop prospects, hit on a few picks outside of the first round, make a trade for the final piece, plug the holes in the roster in free agency if you have to.

Crosby, Malkin. Staal (for the first cup), Fluery (first cup and assisted in the other two). Without those guys you don’t win cups.

Washington had Ovi, Backstrom, Vrana, Wilson, Kuznetsov (would have been a top 10 pick if it wasn’t for Russian factor) and Carlson.

LA drafted Doughty 2nd overall, Anne Kopitar was a 11th overall pick. Dustin brown was top 12. Brayden Schenn was picked 5th overall and was the key piece in the trade to bring in Mike Richards. To acquire Jeff Carter the kings used a first round pick and former 3rd overall pick Jack Johnson who as acquired by LA a couple years earlier as he didn’t want to sign in Carolina. Kings don’t make those trades without those highly drafted players.

I see a recurring theme here. I see a recurring theme also with the so called cup contenders Nashville, Tampa, Winnipeg, Toronto.

Draft top 15, develop prospects, hit on a few picks outside of the first round, make a trade for the final piece, plug the holes in the roster in free agency if you have to.
- Pegullaville

Its funny when you said this was Pittsburgh's system and I showed you that it wasn't you switched to the Kings. You are talking about 3 draft picks on the Penguins out of the last 15 years. Every team wins with drafting, trading and UFA. You say it like it is magical.

The sabres have been drafting, trading and making UFA signings too since the beginning of time.

So you are now switching to LA from Pittsbugh who made trades to win their cup. It was a different team than Puttsgurgh but we can switch.

The kings traded for Richards and Carter and the Kings where not cup contenders until they made that trade.

Everyone you argue with you are preaching patience now you are talking about trading for a 2nd line center like the Kings did.

Are you preaching patience or trading for a 2nd line center like LA Kings did?

Rantenen, Barzal, Domi, McAvoy, Jost, Vrana, Larkin, Debrusk, Morissey, Brannstrom (who Toronto would of had if they didn’t make the playoff in 2016) were all picked 10-15 in the last 5 years. Martin necas who is widely considered the best prospect outside the NHL was picked 12th overall by Carolina in 2017. Having a competent amateur staff solves a lot of problems. The Sabres have been possibly the worst drafting NHL franchise in the entire league but under Botts we have made some sneaky good selections and I have faith he can make this work.

No that would be the Pittsburgh Penguins in the last 10 years. The team you are talking about using the same system.

Then you up the offer. You are also assuming it isn't the best offer or the offer can't be changed. Its a message board, why do you take the trade so literally? Ottawa will trade a UFA in the division if it is the best offer. I have seen what people are saying Duchene is worth and what I offered is very similar to the best but of course it is up to Ottawa not me.

Its like you want misery so you look for reasons to fail.
- sabresfan69

Alright so in order of bolded

1.I carried the conversation by offering an opinion, the foundation of basically any message board. Everything you said up until this was good, you undid yourself there.

2. Will they? Is there a history of teams trading within the division because they got the best value? Especially for high end players? Historically it's been the opposite. Not saying this is a good idea, just that in practice they opt not to

3. I happen to be happy with where the team is at, you're not. The sabres making or not making moves will not be my failure.

You - Other teams aren't making moves so Botts gets a pass? lol. Sad.

You base whether or not Botts is doing a good job or gets to keep his job based on the other 2/3s of the league?
- sabresfan69

Instead of deflecting sadness and misery on to me, why don't you tell me why Botts doesn't deserve a pass for not making a move yet.

My point to him was, 2/3 of the league has been inactive. As far as I can recall, it takes two (2) teams at minimum to make a trade. Botts could be offering the farm and Kim, if nobody's down, there's not much he can do.

Alright so in order of bolded

1.I carried the conversation by offering an opinion, the foundation of basically any message board. Everything you said up until this was good, you undid yourself there.

2. Will they? Is there a history of teams trading within the division because they got the best value? Especially for high end players? Historically it's been the opposite. Not saying this is a good idea, just that in practice they opt not to

3. I happen to be happy with where the team is at, you're not. The sabres making or not making moves will not be my failure.
- Sabresfan-365

Ottawa didn't want to trade within their division because they were fighting for the playoffs this year they are clearly out.

I am happy where this team is but I can see a gaping hole at center that we need to fill or we will never win.

There’s no reason they can’t try and do both.

A solid 2nd-3rd line tweener could be (theoretically) had for something other than a 1st rounder, which could help the playoff push, plus not give up one of our firsts.

Minnesota could use a D man.

One of our million LD + a decent asset could net us Coyle possibly.

Anaheim is looking to deal a forward.

They could add a guy who could make us marginally better to push for the playoffs
- sbroads24

I don't think he's not looking or not willing to give up one of the firsts. I just don't think there's a lot out there right now.

He's probably looking for someone cost controlled who still has some miles left on him. Going off this potential list, I see literally one name that fits that bill and you just mentioned him

https://www.tsn.ca/tsn-ho...-trade-bait-list-1.203546

Instead of deflecting sadness and misery on to me, why don't you tell me why Botts doesn't deserve a pass for not making a move yet.

My point to him was, 2/3 of the league has been inactive. As far as I can recall, it takes two (2) teams at minimum to make a trade. Botts could be offering the farm and Kim, if nobody's down, there's not much he can do.
- Sabresfan-365

I am not grading Botts until the end of the year. I am a big fan of Botts and believed he has/had a plan but by not doing something about our center depth that is a fail.

There is no center in Rochester

If he misses the playoffs next year I would think he will be on the hot seat.

I don't care about hypotheticals where a GM refuses to trade because it is Bott's job to make the team competitive.

win. When you don't win you get fired. No excuse saves you from that.

What bothers me is that there is a gaping hole down the middle and Botts has refused to fill it since the ROR trade.

A GM would never point at other teams and say look they aren't trading either so I get a pass too.

So fans shouldn't do it either.

Ottawa didn't want to trade within their division because they were fighting for the playoffs this year they are clearly out.

I am happy where this team is but I can see a gaping hole at center that we need to fill or we will never win.
- sabresfan69

1. The only NHLers they've traded for or away in the division over the last decade are Lehner and acquiring phaneuf. They haven't traded a guy thats actually worthwhile to a division rival in some time.

2. It's not as if I don't agree with that, It just isn't there right now. It's more often than not an off season move.

At this moment we have no 2nd/3rd line center in this organization. Let's assume Mitts fills one spot.

We still need a center. If you want to draft one at 15 we are waiting 3-4 years for that player to make an impact.

1st+Nylander+Guhle
For
Signed Duchene

Got to think Ottawa is listening and Duchene is from Ontario so maybe he would sign here. Anyone who thinks that is sacrificing the future by adding a top center that is 26 years old is just pushing an agenda.
- sabresfan69

Or we could keep those assets & just wait till the summer to go after him

Or we could keep those assets & just wait till the summer to go after him
- jdfitz77

And pay 9+ million and if we don't get him go to plan B(Leino)?

I don't believe in plan Bs

I am not grading Botts until the end of the year. I am a big fan of Botts and believed he has/had a plan but by not doing something about our center depth that is a fail.

There is no center in Rochester

If he misses the playoffs next year I would think he will be on the hot seat.

I don't care about hypotheticals where a GM refuses to trade because it is Bott's job to make the team competitive.

win. When you don't win you get fired. No excuse saves you from that.

What bothers me is that there is a gaping hole down the middle and Botts has refused to fill it since the ROR trade.

A GM would never point at other teams and say look they aren't trading either so I get a pass too.

So fans shouldn't do it either.
- sabresfan69

You gotta actually read my posts my man. If nobody is willing to give up what we want that leaves only the Tim Murray approach to getting that player. Is that what we need right now?

1. The only NHLers they've traded for or away in the division over the last decade are Lehner and acquiring phaneuf. They haven't traded a guy thats actually worthwhile to a division rival in some time.

2. It's not as if I don't agree with that, It just isn't there right now. It's more often than not an off season move.
- Sabresfan-365

More often than not for the sabres and most teams UFA signings are expensive, over priced and don't work out. Its a huge risk and you are left with a boat anchor at the end of the contract.

And pay 9+ million and if we don't get him go to plan B(Leino)?

I don't believe in plan Bs
- sabresfan69

Certainly not if they're awful ones like Leino, but if you go plan A or bust, you're going to be pretty disappointed.

The only thing keeping Okposo in the NHL is the fact he has 4 years remaining on a contract paying him $6M a year. I doubt any NHL team would take Okposo even a $2M a year the way he’s played this year. Sheary is a replaceable 3rd liner at best.
- Pegullaville

That’s a lot more reasonable then what i was hearing last week

I’d still throw those 2 out there with Jack though to see if he can get some production out of them

More often than not for the sabres and most teams UFA signings are expensive, over priced and don't work out. Its a huge risk.
- sabresfan69

"off season move" is not me saying "sign an expensive free agent on July 1" They do in fact make trades in the summer. Im about 40% sure thats how we got Skinner.

Certainly not if they're awful ones like Leino, but if you go plan A or bust, you're going to be pretty disappointed.
- Sabresfan-365

There is no plan A or bust you make it happen.

Sure I am being stubborn or whatever you want to say but it is what it is.

GMs who rely on plan B get fired more than GMs who make plan A happen.

Look around, if a GM fails he is fired.

"off season move" is not me saying "sign an expensive free agent on July 1" They do in fact make trades in the summer. Im about 40% sure thats how we got Skinner.
- Sabresfan-365

Ok, I get it. You are preaching patience at the expense of this season.

Sure I see that. I disagree with it. I will agree if Botts comes out and tells us the prices were to high to sacrifice our future. That I can get behind.

I am more you control your own destiny kind of person. You got to go out and get it done.

Rantenen, Barzal, Domi, McAvoy, Jost, Vrana, Larkin, Debrusk, Morissey, Brannstrom (who Toronto would of had if they didn’t make the playoff in 2016) were all picked 10-15 in the last 5 years. Martin necas who is widely considered the best prospect outside the NHL was picked 12th overall by Carolina in 2017. Having a competent amateur staff solves a lot of problems. The Sabres have been possibly the worst drafting NHL franchise in the entire league but under Botts we have made some sneaky good selections and I have faith he can make this work.
- Pegullaville

Go look at the 1st round picks by Pitt when Botts was the AsstGM there

EVERY team has misses in the 1st

There is no plan A or bust you make it happen.

Sure I am being stubborn or whatever you want to say but it is what it is.

GMs who rely on plan B get fired more than GMs who make plan A happen.

Look around, if a GM fails he is fired.
- sabresfan69

You do realize that the existence of a plan B is indicative of there being a plan A which im pretty sure comes before said plan b, often because its the more optimal choice.

Nobody relies on a plan B, they just go to it when plan A couldn't happen.