Idk man, three cup runs, with Kane stepping up in very critical times. Cases can certainly be made for those guys as well, but Kane has done more than his fair share to earn 10.5 and every one of those three cups.
- nickmo2699

Take any one of those guys out, including Kane, and I'd argue the number of cup wins would be different. Kane brought an element to the game the others didn't and vice versa. If the defense were unable to get the puck out of the Hawk zone or Kane's linemates were unable to win puck battles and get the puck to Kane we'd be talking a different story. The core, as a group, were equally responsible to the Hawks' success in different ways. Look no further than Edmonton who have a player in McDavid who is better than Kane. Without a solid group around him McDavid may win nothing except personal awards in his career.

Idk man, three cup runs, with Kane stepping up in very critical times. Cases can certainly be made for those guys as well, but Kane has done more than his fair share to earn 10.5 and every one of those three cups.
- nickmo2699

You can argue the contracts for say Toews or Seabs but if you don’t think they didn’t step up at critical times during those Cup runs and weren’t every bit as important/instrumental, Idk what to tell you.

I noticed also that absolutely no one approached Evander Kane immediately after that collision -the same Evander Kane who took extra whacks on Crawford's hands shortly before that.
What would the response been if the situation was reversed? Say one of our guys caused the same collision at the other end of the ice.
- 67hawks

He was an absolute train wreck, maybe the worst of the Hawks’ 9 defensemen but at least Manning was actively going after forwards taking pokes at Hawks’ goalies. Among the many other needs, the Hawks need at least one gritty defensemen that isn’t too much of liability to carry out this role- a Vandermeer, Boynton, Walker or Brookbank-type. The teams that won cups all had a type like this if not DMen- Burish, Eager, Mayers, Carbomb (he played on the 14-15 team but didn’t dress in the playoffs) and Shaw.

One thing though, the play happened so quickly that at first I didn’t realize Strome was pushed into Crow even after watching the initial replay. Not defending the players for not taking action, but this could be why the response or lack thereof occurred. I just hope someone goes after Kane the next time the teams meet up.

You can argue the contracts for say Toews or Seabs but if you don’t think they didn’t step up at critical times during those Cup runs and weren’t every bit as important/instrumental, Idk what to tell you.
- HawkintheD

I agree with that Seabrook in the 2010 cup against Detroit, Kane in 2010 winning goal against Philly.


2013 toews taking over the game and scoring against Boston.

They all at some point mattered.

Stans problem was more about overpaying guys out of loyalty and not realizing that he was setting this team up for long term problems , after they won their 3rd cup and where now a lot older and more run down.

Id be interested in Seabrook and Keith in a package. But that's a huge cap hit along with many years of it. In terms of Keith Id be willing to part with a 2nd rounder for Keith( at full cap hit). Anything more then that id pass. No way am I including Sanheim for keith. No way . No how.

Id be interested in Seabrook and Keith in a package. But that's a huge cap hit along with many years of it. In terms of Keith Id be willing to part with a 2nd rounder for Keith( at full cap hit). Anything more then that id pass. No way am I including Sanheim for keith. No way . No how.
- jmdodgeser4

I’d take a 2nd rounder if you guys took BOTH Keith and Seabrook from us. Would give us enough under the cap to pursue a Karlsson or Myers and let the prospects step up in the next few rebuilding years. Keith, Seabrook and Hammer didn’t all get it together until we signed Campbell.

Id be interested in Seabrook and Keith in a package. But that's a huge cap hit along with many years of it. In terms of Keith Id be willing to part with a 2nd rounder for Keith( at full cap hit). Anything more then that id pass. No way am I including Sanheim for keith. No way . No how.
- jmdodgeser4

It's amazing that everyone wants to help us now that we are down....

It's amazing that everyone wants to help us now that we are down....
- hpk90

A #2 for Keith isn't help, it's tossing a cider block to a man drowning. Keith is WELL worth more than a #2 to the right team. Philly can stuff it and join us in the lottery pool if a 2 is all they have for Duncs. I promise you he will fetch well more than that and for some team he could literally be a final piece of a Cup puzzle. For THAT you don't cower over your prospects and picks, NONE of which will likely ever approach what keith is capable of.

Keith's contract is nothing, 4 more years at a little over 5? While he isn't playing great, it's not because of diminished skill, to me he just looks lost, unmotivated out there, but his wheels (his staple) are still percolating. If people can't see that then go ask Stevie Wonder for some help.

NO I don't want Duncs on a PowerPlay, but 5v5 he's still got skills

Agree. There is no way Stan trades Keith for a 2nd alone. While, I've been more of a proponent of Bowman than many here, if that's all he gets for Keith, I'd say sayonara Stan.

While the Hawks suck, he does have some pieces like Keith, AA and Kruger, that could be interesting to some teams pushing for the playoffs or a Cup. He's also in a position to make hay and one he's rarely been in...the driver's seat.
- HawkintheD

I think everyone is over-valuing Duncan Keith. If he was on an expiring contract (as Timmonen was if you want to compare) then absolutely Stan could ask for the moon and get it.
As for the rest of the core with NMC's, they would dictate where they would waive and that would be where they have a chance to win. So what does a first round pick look like in that situation? It would be equivalent to what we got for Hartman.

It's amazing that everyone wants to help us now that we are down....
- hpk90

IMO the only way Chicago can move Keith and Seabrook is they have to package them up with either a Kane, Crawford, debrincant.

I think everyone is over-valuing Duncan Keith. If he was on an expiring contract (as Timmonen was if you want to compare) then absolutely Stan could ask for the moon and get it.
As for the rest of the core with NMC's, they would dictate where they would waive and that would be where they have a chance to win. So what does a first round pick look like in that situation? It would be equivalent to what we got for Hartman.
- 67hawks

Keith will easily play another four more years and in years 3 and 4 as the cap goes up, he'll be a bargain even if he slides down as the 2nd D on your 2nd pair (#4). the guy is in great shape and plays a more finesse game which should add to his longevity.

A #2 for Keith isn't help, it's tossing a cider block to a man drowning. Keith is WELL worth more than a #2 to the right team. Philly can stuff it and join us in the lottery pool if a 2 is all they have for Duncs. I promise you he will fetch well more than that and for some team he could literally be a final piece of a Cup puzzle. For THAT you don't cower over your prospects and picks, NONE of which will likely ever approach what keith is capable of.

Keith's contract is nothing, 4 more years at a little over 5? While he isn't playing great, it's not because of diminished skill, to me he just looks lost, unmotivated out there, but his wheels (his staple) are still percolating. If people can't see that then go ask Stevie Wonder for some help.

NO I don't want Duncs on a PowerPlay, but 5v5 he's still got skills
- kwolf68

I guess I need to work on my board sarcasm skills!

I agree that Keith is worth way more than just a second. At a minimum we should be getting a top level prospect/young guy with experience, a number one draft pick, and perhaps a lower round draft pick/or established lower line veteran.

I agree with that Seabrook in the 2010 cup against Detroit, Kane in 2010 winning goal against Philly.


2013 toews taking over the game and scoring against Boston.

They all at some point mattered.

Stans problem was more about overpaying guys out of loyalty and not realizing that he was setting this team up for long term problems , after they won their 3rd cup and where now a lot older and more run down.
- Taylorst1

It's so easy for you to sit with hindsight and criticize moves that when at the time they were made would have been screaming the loudest if he hadn't made the deals.

Imagine the angst and vitriol of a large number of people on this board if Kane and Toews had walked. People were appalled at the contract given to Crawford, until they realized he was worth every penny. Of all the long terms & salaries given out, Seabrooks is the most alarming, but i don't think anyone could have anticipated his fallover coming so far and so fast.

I think everyone is over-valuing Duncan Keith. If he was on an expiring contract (as Timmonen was if you want to compare) then absolutely Stan could ask for the moon and get it.
As for the rest of the core with NMC's, they would dictate where they would waive and that would be where they have a chance to win. So what does a first round pick look like in that situation? It would be equivalent to what we got for Hartman.
- 67hawks

That’s fair. I look at it as more bites at the apple, spins at the wheel, etc. Beaudun may turn out to be nothing but right now he looks pretty promising as the one skill lefty dman besides Forsling in the system. He’s also potentially a trade chip, which is also valuable.

Plus I think you’re undervaluing Keith. I hardly think a 1st and good prospect for him would be too rich an ask at the TDL...JMO.

A #2 for Keith isn't help, it's tossing a cider block to a man drowning. Keith is WELL worth more than a #2 to the right team. Philly can stuff it and join us in the lottery pool if a 2 is all they have for Duncs. I promise you he will fetch well more than that and for some team he could literally be a final piece of a Cup puzzle. For THAT you don't cower over your prospects and picks, NONE of which will likely ever approach what keith is capable of.

Keith's contract is nothing, 4 more years at a little over 5? While he isn't playing great, it's not because of diminished skill, to me he just looks lost, unmotivated out there, but his wheels (his staple) are still percolating. If people can't see that then go ask Stevie Wonder for some help.

NO I don't want Duncs on a PowerPlay, but 5v5 he's still got skills
- kwolf68

One injury away from not being able to trade him this year at all. AKA Crawford.

Keith will easily play another four more years and in years 3 and 4 as the cap goes up, he'll be a bargain even if he slides down as the 2nd D on your 2nd pair (#4). the guy is in great shape and plays a more finesse game which should add to his longevity.
- kwolf68

He's already a bargain for a top 3 defenseman.

Keiths cap hit is not an issue. You move Keith out of respect for him to allow him to play on a contender instead of going thru a rebuild/remodel and a few tough seasons. That being said, you don't give him away. If he is going to a contender then the minimum expected return should be a lower 1st round pick, and a top prospect.

Same can be said about Toews, Keith, Hossa and Seabrook, no?
- paulr

Absolutely. No one player was the key. Toews, Keith and Kane were the biggest parts for the Hawks winning for sure. Seabrook was a beast in the playoffs and Hossa always so valuable.

You can argue the contracts for say Toews or Seabs but if you don’t think they didn’t step up at critical times during those Cup runs and weren’t every bit as important/instrumental, Idk what to tell you.
- HawkintheD

THey were all intricate parts, but when we look at the Hawks fan base, they are constantly reminded of Kane's playoff moments and it's a bit more tangible. The true hockey people on this blog and throughout the fan base know the importance of all the guys named and know it wasnt just Kane.

My point is, I dont think we can combat the trading of Artemi Panarin and what that meant to Kane's career trajectory by saying we gave you 3 cups and 10.5 a year, deal with it. He has constantly been thrown table scraps to make work year after year.

Scott Darling with $1 million retained for future considerations.

I’d take a 2nd rounder if you guys took BOTH Keith and Seabrook from us. Would give us enough under the cap to pursue a Karlsson or Myers and let the prospects step up in the next few rebuilding years. Keith, Seabrook and Hammer didn’t all get it together until we signed Campbell.
- Popsghostly

Would be a Godsend if Q lands in Philly and takes on Keith/Seabs. Wonder what Dale Weise thinks of the Q to Philly rumors lol?!

He's already a bargain for a top 3 defenseman.

Keiths cap hit is not an issue. You move Keith out of respect for him to allow him to play on a contender instead of going thru a rebuild/remodel and a few tough seasons. That being said, you don't give him away. If he is going to a contender then the minimum expected return should be a lower 1st round pick, and a top prospect.
- TheTrob

Bingo. If the Hawks can't get anything more than a 2 for Duncs, you don't move him, PERIOD. We gain nothing from a #2 and we have no real need to clear his cap hit, since it's not much to begin with. There is ZERO incentive to move him for a 2 unless other teams think we just "want to get rid of him", which is patently absurd. NO, the ONLY reason in any way, shape or form do I support moving #2 is to A) give him a shot at another Cup, B) helping retool the Hawks by way of a couple good prospects or pick/prospects. If item "B" isn't realized then those teams trying to cherry pick Keith for chump change can go piss up a rope.

Scott Darling with $1 million retained for future considerations.
- BINGO!

Would those considerations be Scott foster?

I am still blown away at the lack of any kind of response after CC got bulldozed. I watched the replay. 100% intentional. I don't get it. Is the locker room that bad that nobody sticks up for a teammate? Geezus.

Scott Darling with $1 million retained for future considerations.
- BINGO!

Heck we’ll even throw in Brandon Manning.

I am still blown away at the lack of any kind of response after CC got bulldozed. I watched the replay. 100% intentional. I don't get it. Is the locker room that bad that nobody sticks up for a teammate? Geezus.
- z1990z

You'd have to think that is on the minds of the guys in the Locker Room too, which is certainly not good.