Quenville to Phi and Keith and Seabrook to follow.

That right there is why Q will not be hired. Give him a year and he will bring back every washed up former hawk.

the philly beat reporter is saying that Q is out in Colorado and claims he does not even want to think about coaching till after the holidays.
- kmw4631

My boss saw Q and some family members at O’Hare last mondayvgoing through tsa. She said he “looked happier that the average Hawks fan.” He doesn’t have to make a hurried decision. Collecting a ton of money this year and next for doing nothing.

I would do that don't think Edmonton would and Edmonton probably not giving up their 1st
- Scott1977

You may be right about that.

As much as many of us would like to see it happen, I don't think Rocky will launch the guy who has quintupled the value of his franchise in 10 years. He may do it eventually, especially if and when McD replaces Bowman and the dysfunction continues. McD going is unfortunately probably the long game.
- TheTrob

I can't imagine anything quintupling in Chicago that doesn't begin with the words ' Among those shot last weekend were....' or Here is your new property tax bill. BTW How did the other teams do?

I can't imagine anything quintupling in Chicago that doesn't begin with the words ' Among those shot last weekend were....' or Here is your new property tax bill. BTW How did the other teams do?
- Savoy

The average team in the NHL probably about tripled in value over that time period. including the top in TOR, NYR, MTL. The lowest value teams now about doubled their value. The spread between the top and bottom now is huge at over a billion difference. Hawks went from 16th in value to 4th.

Thinking back a couple of years before that - there was Olczyk and Secord to Toronto, for Vaive, Thomas, and McGill... that one was a decent trade as well.

Wouldn't trade Kane, there's no point.
- steve-hist-sdc

Wow those where some sad days after those guys were traded.

I agree their is no guarantee what you think you have in value and trade will give you the return that is fair or outstanding.

If your trying forget picks as well you have to have a good pulse of the crop of kids in the draft.

You can suggest anything you want, and you can re-tell all the accounts of athletes in the past gaming the system to return and play before they should have. That's not what we are talking about here.

You have Crawford who was out for 10+ months and under his own care, was either convinced by Hawk doctors to come back before he was ready, OR, had his doctors convince the Hawks that he was ready to come back even though he wasn't. Exactly what would be his incentive? Because he was champing at the bit to get into the nightmare he had faced the year before, only worse?

Crawfords play this year was a combination beginning with some rust from a lengthy layoff, followed by inconsistent play and poor play in front of him making him look even worse. EVERY Goalie goes thru periods in the season where they will let in softies, loose their angles, over play and loose their nets, etc. It doesn't mean they are concussed or not fully recovered. Name me pretty much any goalie in the league and I will show you streaks where they have not played great. On a team like the Hawks where the Goalies lack support, its magnified.

In terms of speech patterns, he has always been halting. In fact if you listen to most of the veterans this year, they are hesitant with answers when interviewed. They have been winners for most of their careers, this consistent losing is wearing on them, they are trying to give PC answers as opposed to just reactions, and it shows in the time they are taking to think thru answers.

It's funny, your expert eye says he is still concussed, but all the coaches, trainers, md's, agents, friends and family that watch him play and practice regularly have said nothing and have let him play the majority of the games lately anyway. SMH
- TheTrob

So you can analyze Crawford’s speech and sign off that he seems fine but nobody else is allowed to analyze his speech? There are others who hear exactly what I hear. Do you really think Crawford sounds like exactly the same Crawford that once did not speak haltingly and gave the “bunch of beauties” speech?

While it is true that goalies can go through slumps and get off their games, and can
have rust, if they have been off, this is normally reflected with generally poorer play, across the board. All types of shots, all types of situations. This is not what Crawford was experiencing. Crawford was playing certain shots very well, other shots terribly. One extreme end of the spectrum and then the other extreme end of the spectrum. When he faced shots from basically stationary shooters, where he could play on plane and square up, he played very well, even brilliantly, if you wish. However, when he faced fast moving shooters coming in on breaks, or busting out from behind the net, he seemed defenseless. He couldn’t seem to track the shooter properly resulting in him losing his net and giving up lots of net to shoot at. The reaction to movement was the issue or more accurately the failure to react. Shooters were scoring on these type of plays at a very high frequency and it was not improving.

If Crawford would have returned under Ulf’s D-System there would have been no question. Under Ulf’s Offensive D-System the Hawks gave up an insane number of break-ins. If this was still happening the net would have been simply full behind Crawford. Another poster has posted that since Ulf left, break-ins are way down but that the shooters who do get break-ins are scoring at a high and higher frequency. This aligns exactly with what I have been saying.

I just wanted Crawford completely healthy and there were indices suggesting he wasn’t. Didn’t need an “expert eye” to see them - that’s the point. Crawford’s health was and is the ONLY issue.

So you can analyze Crawford’s speech and sign off that he seems fine but nobody else is allowed to analyze his speech? There are others who hear exactly what I hear. Do you really think Crawford sounds like exactly the same Crawford that once did not speak haltingly and gave the “bunch of beauties” speech?

While it is true that goalies can go through slumps and get off their games, and can
have rust, if they have been off, this is normally reflected with generally poorer play, across the board. All types of shots, all types of situations. This is not what Crawford was experiencing. Crawford was playing certain shots very well, other shots terribly. One extreme end of the spectrum and then the other extreme end of the spectrum. When he faced shots from basically stationary shooters, where he could play on plane and square up, he played very well, even brilliantly, if you wish. However, when he faced fast moving shooters coming in on breaks, or busting out from behind the net, he seemed defenseless. He couldn’t seem to track the shooter properly resulting in him losing his net and giving up lots of net to shoot at. The reaction to movement was the issue or more accurately the failure to react. Shooters were scoring on these type of plays at a very high frequency and it was not improving.

If Crawford would have returned under Ulf’s D-System there would have been no question. Under Ulf’s Offensive D-System the Hawks gave up an insane number of break-ins. If this was still happening the net would have been simply full behind Crawford. Another poster has posted that since Ulf left, break-ins are way down but that the shooters who do get break-ins are scoring at a high and higher frequency. This aligns exactly with what I have been saying.

I just wanted Crawford completely healthy and there were indices suggesting he wasn’t. Didn’t need an “expert eye” to see them - that’s the point. Crawford’s health was and is the ONLY issue.
- Z3Hawk

I’m not a speech pathologist. My opinion differs from yours. My biggest “proof” that he was healthy is that he is surrounded by dozens of team personnel and even more so his own support staff and family/friends who all observe him and have let him play.

If the dozens of people closest to him say he’s ok, I’m gonna go with that opinion over any of ours.

Could he have not been 100% and still playing.....sure, but doubtful. Any other type of injury, likely. Head injury, no.

Quenville to Phi and Keith and Seabrook to follow.

That right there is why Q will not be hired. Give him a year and he will bring back every washed up former hawk.
- TrueGrit

You do realize Coaches don't make trades?

So you can analyze Crawford’s speech and sign off that he seems fine but nobody else is allowed to analyze his speech? There are others who hear exactly what I hear. Do you really think Crawford sounds like exactly the same Crawford that once did not speak haltingly and gave the “bunch of beauties” speech?

While it is true that goalies can go through slumps and get off their games, and can
have rust, if they have been off, this is normally reflected with generally poorer play, across the board. All types of shots, all types of situations. This is not what Crawford was experiencing. Crawford was playing certain shots very well, other shots terribly. One extreme end of the spectrum and then the other extreme end of the spectrum. When he faced shots from basically stationary shooters, where he could play on plane and square up, he played very well, even brilliantly, if you wish. However, when he faced fast moving shooters coming in on breaks, or busting out from behind the net, he seemed defenseless. He couldn’t seem to track the shooter properly resulting in him losing his net and giving up lots of net to shoot at. The reaction to movement was the issue or more accurately the failure to react. Shooters were scoring on these type of plays at a very high frequency and it was not improving.

If Crawford would have returned under Ulf’s D-System there would have been no question. Under Ulf’s Offensive D-System the Hawks gave up an insane number of break-ins. If this was still happening the net would have been simply full behind Crawford. Another poster has posted that since Ulf left, break-ins are way down but that the shooters who do get break-ins are scoring at a high and higher frequency. This aligns exactly with what I have been saying.

I just wanted Crawford completely healthy and there were indices suggesting he wasn’t. Didn’t need an “expert eye” to see them - that’s the point. Crawford’s health was and is the ONLY issue.
- Z3Hawk

That's IMO debatable, however if you still had coach Q you'd get a better performance out of your team.

I believe colliton doesnt have the respect nor the commitment from this team. I get the argument they lack skill , however giving the reins of a nhl coaching job to a guy who in his playing career was a bust and has no real solid track proven track record as a coach is beyond atrocious.

It's time to move out the core for plenty of reasons , if they don't have the same level of enthusiasm and commitment and the reality they won't be here or able to really want to contribute to rebuild

Burn it down.

That's IMO debatable, however if you still had coach Q you'd get a better performance out of your team.

I believe colliton doesnt have the respect nor the commitment from this team. I get the argument they lack skill , however giving the reins of a nhl coaching job to a guy who in his playing career was a bust and has no real solid track proven track record as a coach is beyond atrocious.

It's time to move out the core for plenty of reasons , if they don't have the same level of enthusiasm and commitment and the reality they won't be here or able to really want to contribute to rebuild

Burn it down.
- Taylorst1

I agree 100% the team needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

Not sure I agree about a new coachhaving to have a track record. I think Colliton is in a bad place because the core seem to have given up. I imagine it's difficult for Toews Keith et all to get enthusiastic about the rebuild that is on the horizon. Once the core is moved out, assuming they are, I think we'll see what kind of coach Colliton is.

I agree 100% the team needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

Not sure I agree about a new coachhaving to have a track record. I think Colliton is in a bad place because the core seem to have given up. I imagine it's difficult for Toews Keith et all to get enthusiastic about the rebuild that is on the horizon. Once the core is moved out, assuming they are, I think we'll see what kind of coach Colliton is.
- paulr

I do think in order to be a successful coach in any sport you need to gain experience in all levels and get the tootalage needed from a beach boss to hone and develop and better understand the game. He never served as a assistant coach as well. I'm not sure how anyone with a sound mind and good judgement could have just handed over the reins to a nhl coaching job with no proven track record or experience ? If they made him a interim people could swallow that whole idea better to see what you have in him and then in the off-season If you felt he was reading not you didn't put yourself in that kinda situation.

Think of it this way you have a job opening for a Neuro surgeon and you hire a 2 year intern to be the head Neuro surgeon for your hospital ?
Any job of a position or skill requires a proven track record and a competent skill and understanding.

I agree 100% the team needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

Not sure I agree about a new coachhaving to have a track record. I think Colliton is in a bad place because the core seem to have given up. I imagine it's difficult for Toews Keith et all to get enthusiastic about the rebuild that is on the horizon. Once the core is moved out, assuming they are, I think we'll see what kind of coach Colliton is.
- paulr

I don't buy that (the latter half of the sentence.) There is still compete in this team. It's 19 and 88 still doing the heavy lifting. They are surrounded by kids, some are good, but everyone (core included) hasn't been consistent. Seabs, everyone sees the toll on him, same for Keith, but Keith is still our top guy. Crow being out, the team's flaws will be highlighted even more. I'll agree with you in their un-enthusiasm about the rebuild and Q being fired stung too, but they are competing. I think it's taking a lot longer for things to gel under a new coach/system. I've been happy with the team recently, but definitely not happy with letting EKane skating freely. That game got ugly fast. They played a great first period, I never thought I'd say that sentence. It's a fragile team in a lot of ways.

I agree 100% the team needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

Not sure I agree about a new coachhaving to have a track record. I think Colliton is in a bad place because the core seem to have given up. I imagine it's difficult for Toews Keith et all to get enthusiastic about the rebuild that is on the horizon. Once the core is moved out, assuming they are, I think we'll see what kind of coach Colliton is.
- paulr

Good luck to Stan moving the rich guys out- he'll need it. Crawford's injury will complicate matters for the rest of this season and next as Stan will quite possibly need to LTIR him next season. One poster put it best earlier in the thread: Top to bottom, it's a mess.

I do think in order to be a successful coach in any sport you need to gain experience in all levels and get the tootalage needed from a beach boss to hone and develop and better understand the game. He never served as a assistant coach as well. I'm not sure how anyone with a sound mind and good judgement could have just handed over the reins to a nhl coaching job with no proven track record or experience ? If they made him a interim people could swallow that whole idea better to see what you have in him and then in the off-season If you felt he was reading not you didn't put yourself in that kinda situation.

Think of it this way you have a job opening for a Neuro surgeon and you hire a 2 year intern to be the head Neuro surgeon for your hospital ?
Any job of a position or skill requires a proven track record and a competent skill and understanding.
- Taylorst1

So you're saying coaching in the NHL is in fact brain surgery.

So you're saying coaching in the NHL is in fact brain surgery.
- paulr

Quenville to Phi and Keith and Seabrook to follow.

That right there is why Q will not be hired. Give him a year and he will bring back every washed up former hawk.
- TrueGrit

wishful thinking but would love to see rocky can McD and Stan in April and let
Q become the new president. He can pick his own GM. Have actual hockey
guys running the operation, not a beanie baby salesmen and a
lucky sperm club GM

wishful thinking but would love to see rocky can McD and Stan in April and let
Q become the new president. He can pick his own GM. Have actual hockey
guys running the operation, not a beanie baby salesmen and a
lucky sperm club GM
- WiscoReg

This would be sensational!!!

And "Beanie Baby Salesman"

That's IMO debatable, however if you still had coach Q you'd get a better performance out of your team.

I believe colliton doesnt have the respect nor the commitment from this team. I get the argument they lack skill , however giving the reins of a nhl coaching job to a guy who in his playing career was a bust and has no real solid track proven track record as a coach is beyond atrocious.

It's time to move out the core for plenty of reasons , if they don't have the same level of enthusiasm and commitment and the reality they won't be here or able to really want to contribute to rebuild

Burn it down.
- Taylorst1

I agree with all but the bolded. Playing career has nothing to do with coaching/GM. See: Gretzky, Wayne or Jordan, Michael.

Coaching is coaching. It helps if they played at all, more so if they played in higher levels, but it doesn't matter how good they were.

Regardless of his condition beforehand, I think we can all agree that Crow being concussed again is a bad thing and hopefully he recovers?

I think the only reason you come off Dcat is to move Seabrook. They could move Keith for a marginal return whenever they feel like it since his salary isnt egrigious and he doesn't suck really bad yet.

I think a coach like Babcock gets him to compact his game and play more like Suter does now. Dont think hes gonna let a whole lot of other people tell him what to do.

Keith for a first + Marleau probably gets that done and Marleau only has one year left and Toronto can try for two runs before the cap really ruins their day.

Thats if hes asked for out and you gotta get something. Maybe another conditional pick if they make the final.

So you're saying coaching in the NHL is in fact brain surgery.
- paulr

It's a high skilled profile job that requires , education , learning and earning incremental promotions based on experience and accomplishments. Your not talking about being hired as a janitor or someone who can shovel poop for a living.


If you can't understand the analogy or example then don't chime in with your 2 cents.

I agree with all but the bolded. Playing career has nothing to do with coaching/GM. See: Gretzky, Wayne or Jordan, Michael.

Coaching is coaching. It helps if they played at all, more so if they played in higher levels, but it doesn't matter how good they were.
- CanOCorn

That's a fair and reasonable point. But a prime example remember Jordan thought because he was so gifted in basketball he'd be great at baseball?


However 1 or 2 years of junior coaching with no proven track record to show accomplishments doesn't warrant from a solid judgement and thinking to handing over the reins to be a nhl coach on a team that is in decline and just fired the best coach out their already.

It's a high skilled profile job that requires , education , learning and earning incremental promotions based on experience and accomplishments. Your not talking about being hired as a janitor or someone who can shovel poop for a living.


If you can't understand the analogy or example then don't chime in with your 2 cents.
- Taylorst1

Regardless of his condition beforehand, I think we can all agree that Crow being concussed again is a bad thing and hopefully he recovers?

I think the only reason you come off Dcat is to move Seabrook. They could move Keith for a marginal return whenever they feel like it since his salary isnt egrigious and he doesn't suck really bad yet.

I think a coach like Babcock gets him to compact his game and play more like Suter does now. Dont think hes gonna let a whole lot of other people tell him what to do.

Keith for a first + Marleau probably gets that done and Marleau only has one year left and Toronto can try for two runs before the cap really ruins their day.

Thats if hes asked for out and you gotta get something. Maybe another conditional pick if they make the final.
- fattybeef

It makes sense from Toronto's POV and the dollars work, but why would Marleau waive his NMC to come here? I doubt that he would want to finish his career on a doormat rather than a legitimate contender.

- Rota's Rooter

Lmaoooo at the q crotch grab