Their top line did the most damage but they weren't the only ones scoring. Go look at the boxscores, plenty of other guys getting those dirty playoff goals. It happens every year, the game changes in the playoffs. Space gets tighter, the physicality increases, the whistles get put away and the goals get dirtier. All those things don't benefit the Leafs style at all.
- Unholy_Goalie

So they should change their style? That would basically mean a roster revamp.. you’re basically saying the second best team in the league at the moment needs to change what they’re doing because it won’t work later on maybe.. and yes it’s a maybe

I had such high hopes for finn but that had nothing to do with the eye test just from draft position and looking at his numbers in junior. Percy looked good when he first got called up for a few games but I guess he just fizzled out. It's really hard to draft good young players outside the top 10. Especially dmen. I wish the leafs had whoever Tampa has doing their scouting.
- HealthyScratch6

I agree.
Some players I’ve has high hopes for based on draft position and hype only to be disappointed. Others have looked good to the eye in a small sample size such as Percy.
kostik - Don Cherry was championing signing him to an extension after his first 20
Games. He brags all the time about his predictions that work out; he doesn’t bring that one up or his wanting Bolland signed long term
As the next Gilmour.
The eye test can deceive in the short term.

Their top line did the most damage but they weren't the only ones scoring. Go look at the boxscores, plenty of other guys getting those dirty playoff goals. It happens every year, the game changes in the playoffs. Space gets tighter, the physicality increases, the whistles get put away and the goals get dirtier. All those things don't benefit the Leafs style at all.
- Unholy_Goalie

What if they win the cup? Not even.. what if they make it to the conference final and lose.. are you going to be happy with the progress or poop all over them because they’re not what “you” think is the perfect team? Seriously, you’re not even a fair weather fan .. you’re a bruins fan that forgot the colour of the Jersey

So they should change their style? That would basically mean a roster revamp.. you’re basically saying the second best team in the league at the moment needs to change what they’re doing because it won’t work later on maybe.. and yes it’s a maybe
- Puck-us-all

Bigger, more physical players, better defense (especially the right side) and less shots against with more offensive zone time.

Not the whole team but significant changes still need to be made. Being 2nd after 31 games means (frank) all. I can see how a homer could think it matters but it doesn't. Plenty of high scoring, President trophy winners (like Washington for 10+ years) have been booted in the 1st round because what they did during the season didn't mean poop during the playoffs.

Bigger, more physical players, better defense (especially the right side) and less shots against with more offensive zone time.

Not the whole team but significant changes still need to be made. Being 2nd after 31 games means (frank) all. I can see how a homer could think it matters but it doesn't. Plenty of high scoring, President trophy winners (like Washington for 10+ years) have been booted in the 1st round because what they did during the season didn't mean poop during the playoffs.
- Unholy_Goalie

What about Pittsburgh. Were they big physical teams with elite defense?

There's more than one way to win in the playoffs. You don't have to copy the last team that won.

What about Pittsburgh. Were they big physical teams with elite defense?

There's more than one way to win in the playoffs. You don't have to copy the last team that won.
- HealthyScratch6

Crosby and Malkin are Crosby and Malkin. Leafs don't have those guys. Pittsburgh's defense was also underrated, did a better job than most people will give them credit for and still better than the Leafs defense.

More often than not, defense is still what works and the Leafs "defense" is basically Andersen standing on his head.

Bigger, more physical players, better defense (especially the right side) and less shots against with more offensive zone time.

Not the whole team but significant changes still need to be made. Being 2nd after 31 games means (frank) all. I can see how a homer could think it matters but it doesn't. Plenty of high scoring, President trophy winners (like Washington for 10+ years) have been booted in the 1st round because what they did during the season didn't mean poop during the playoffs.
- Unholy_Goalie

being second overall means (frank) all to you.. not to true fans and not to the team that’s chasing home ice for the playoffs..team defense needs to improve but you assuming they need to make significant changes is false ..young teams learn and grow experience defeat and then hopefully learn to win.. they’re not all the way there yet but they’re close..

Crosby and Malkin are Crosby and Malkin. Leafs don't have those guys. Pittsburgh's defense was also underrated, did a better job than most people will give them credit for and still better than the Leafs defense.

More often than not, defense is still what works and the Leafs "defense" is basically Andersen standing on his head.
- Unholy_Goalie

Their defense when they won their last cup was not better than the leafs D. Wasn't even close.

Crosby and Malkin are Crosby and Malkin. Leafs don't have those guys. Pittsburgh's defense was also underrated, did a better job than most people will give them credit for and still better than the Leafs defense.

More often than not, defense is still what works and the Leafs "defense" is basically Andersen standing on his head.
- Unholy_Goalie

Mathews and Tavares aren’t two pieces of poop you know? Also they’re 6th in goals against. Me thinks you underrate they’re defense .. they do a better job than most people give them credit for and still better than the pens

Their defense when they won their last cup was not better than the leafs D. Wasn't even close.
- HealthyScratch6

And they’re most reliable defenseman is now a leaf lol

Holy poop, the Raptors just beat Golden State 113-93


Without Kawhi..

Holy poop, the Raptors just beat Golden State 113-93


Without Kawhi..
- Arctic_AARDVARK

What’s a Kawhi? 🤔

Mathews and Tavares aren’t two pieces of poop you know? Also they’re 6th in goals against. Me thinks you underrate they’re defense .. they do a better job than most people give them credit for and still better than the pens
- Puck-us-all

Leafs are way deeper up front than that team was. And have better D. Goaltending is arguable.

Ian Cole Brian dumoulin justin schultz trevor Daley mark streit olli maatta Chad ruhwedel and Ron hainsey.

Their defense when they won their last cup was not better than the leafs D. Wasn't even close.
- HealthyScratch6

Hainsey was on both teams and obviously the younger version of him was better. He's almost useless today. Dumoulin and Maatta are better defensively than most if not all of the Leafs defenders. Schultz, offensively, was very effective. Cole and Daley were also effective defensively as bottom pairing defenders.

On top of that, they had Crosby and Malkin up front maintaining significant offensive zone time which kept them out of their own zone.

People keep trying to use this poop example of the Penguins. The year before they had Letang. The time before that they had Letang and Gonchar. These are horrible comparisons. Trying to cherry pick the one time a team had a slightly weaker defense doesn't even come close to all the other examples of teams like Detroit (Lidstrom) or LA (Doughty) or Chicago (Keith and Seabrook) or the long, long, long list of teams that won with top notch defenders and top notch defense.

Mathews and Tavares aren’t two pieces of poop you know? Also they’re 6th in goals against. Me thinks you underrate they’re defense .. they do a better job than most people give them credit for and still better than the pens
- Puck-us-all

Not Crosby and Malkin. Come talk to me when Matthews and Tavares are 50 goal, 100 point MVPs and literally the best players of their generation. Hasn't happened yet. And probably won't with McDavid around.

Hainsey was on both teams and obviously the younger version of him was better. He's almost useless today. Dumoulin and Maatta are better defensively than most if not all of the Leafs defenders. Schultz, offensively, was very effective. Cole and Daley were also effective defensively as bottom pairing defenders.

On top of that, they had Crosby and Malkin up front maintaining significant offensive zone time which kept them out of their own zone.

People keep trying to use this poop example of the Penguins. The year before they had Letang. The time before that they had Letang and Gonchar. These are horrible comparisons. Trying to cherry pick the one time a team had a slightly weaker defense doesn't even come close to all the other examples of teams like Detroit (Lidstrom) or LA (Doughty) or Chicago (Keith and Seabrook) or the long, long, long list of teams that won with top notch defenders and top notch defense.
- Unholy_Goalie

So you’re saying there’s a chance?

What’s a Kawhi? 🤔
- Puck-us-all

Not Crosby and Malkin. Come talk to me when Matthews and Tavares are 50 goal, 100 point MVPs and literally the best players of their generation. Hasn't happened yet. And probably won't with McDavid around.
- Unholy_Goalie

Leafs have more depth than that team did. You don't need to have the best player in the world to win. How many cups McDavid have the last couple years.

Not Crosby and Malkin. Come talk to me when Matthews and Tavares are 50 goal, 100 point MVPs and literally the best players of their generation. Hasn't happened yet. And probably won't with McDavid around.
- Unholy_Goalie

So that means they can’t produce in the playoffs? Crosby and Malkin are phenomenal players no doubt but they can poop the bed like anyone else.. just because Mathews hasn’t made his mark in the playoffs doesn’t mean he won’t, you’re way way way to cut and dry with your interpretations.. it’s not even close to that black and white..

- Arctic_AARDVARK

😂

Crosby and Malkin are Crosby and Malkin. Leafs don't have those guys. Pittsburgh's defense was also underrated, did a better job than most people will give them credit for and still better than the Leafs defense.

More often than not, defense is still what works and the Leafs "defense" is basically Andersen standing on his head.
- Unholy_Goalie

They do have those guys, or close to it. Two superstar centres. The cast beyond that In Marner, Kadri, Nylander, Kapanen is deeper up front. Goaltending is at
Least as good and D core is not much worse than one the Pens won with.
Your vision of a team is not the only path to success. The game is changing. Sticking to one way of thinking is to become a dinosaur destined to roam the board saying the same stubbornness things over and over night after nigh. How about considering g maybe just maybe there is another way, or that others who do not share your opinion and evaluations of players are just wrong out of hand, and aren’t just idiots just because their reasoned opinions disagree with you. Hell even the grinch’s heart grew three sizes they say.

Leafs have more depth than that team did. You don't need to have the best player in the world to win. How many cups McDavid have the last couple years.
- HealthyScratch6

They also don't have the best players of their generation and usually, the best players of a generation, are the ones who win Cups. There's a reason why Crosby and Malkin have three Cups. If not for injuries to both of them, they might have 4 or 5.

And no, they don't win every year, but when you look at the teams that did win (when they didn't), you see they have Norris caliber defenders on the team and/or play well defensively (Detroit, Anaheim, Chicago, LA all had Norris winners and played strong defensive games). The Leafs have none of those things right now. So, what needs to change is obvious; get better defense and play better defense.

I'm not saying they need McDavid to win. Actually, you are. You're the one saying "look at Pittsburgh" so if we're looking at Pittsburgh, they have the McDavid of 10 years ago (plus Malkin). I'm saying, the Leafs don't have McDavid so therefore you have to look at what the teams that didn't have that type of player did when they won Cups. The answer is; better defense / defenders.

They do have those guys, or close to it. Two superstar centres. The cast beyond that In Marner, Kadri, Nylander, Kapanen is deeper up front. Goaltending is at
Least as good and D core is not much worse than one the Pens won with.
Your vision of a team is not the only path to success. The game is changing. Sticking to one way of thinking is to become a dinosaur destined to roam the board saying the same stubbornness things over and over night after nigh. How about considering g maybe just maybe there is another way, or that others who do not share your opinion and evaluations of players are just wrong out of hand, and aren’t just idiots just because their reasoned opinions disagree with you. Hell even the grinch’s heart grew three sizes they say.
- Dr. Leaf

They really don't. Crosby and Malkin are both literally MVPs. Leafs don't have that.

They do have those guys, or close to it. Two superstar centres. The cast beyond that In Marner, Kadri, Nylander, Kapanen is deeper up front. Goaltending is at
Least as good and D core is not much worse than one the Pens won with.
Your vision of a team is not the only path to success. The game is changing. Sticking to one way of thinking is to become a dinosaur destined to roam the board saying the same stubbornness things over and over night after nigh. How about considering g maybe just maybe there is another way, or that others who do not share your opinion and evaluations of players are just wrong out of hand, and aren’t just idiots just because their reasoned opinions disagree with you. Hell even the grinch’s heart grew three sizes they say.
- Dr. Leaf

Spot on

They do have those guys, or close to it. Two superstar centres. The cast beyond that In Marner, Kadri, Nylander, Kapanen is deeper up front. Goaltending is at
Least as good and D core is not much worse than one the Pens won with.
Your vision of a team is not the only path to success. The game is changing. Sticking to one way of thinking is to become a dinosaur destined to roam the board saying the same stubbornness things over and over night after nigh. How about considering g maybe just maybe there is another way, or that others who do not share your opinion and evaluations of players are just wrong out of hand, and aren’t just idiots just because their reasoned opinions disagree with you. Hell even the grinch’s heart grew three sizes they say.
- Dr. Leaf

He forgets that Vegas made it to the finals last year with a bunch of cast sways. Also that washingtons d on paper wasn't all that great either. If the leafs got Petro for zaitsev hed say there's no way the leafs can win with hainsey in their top 4 and sparks as their backup.