He wants to win, so very unlikely.......
- nickmo2699

Don't take this away from me...

Justin Lowe: Quenneville was the Last Straw

When I heard the news that Joel Quenneville was fired by the Chicago, I was sad/angry/confused, but when those emotions subsided, I was excited. I was excited for Jeremy Colliton to get in there with a fresh voice and thought that this was the beginning of a new Hawks team.

Maybe not?
- Justin Lowe

#LoseForHughes

On another note, it is encouraging to see Vancouver on a 3 game winning streak. This is one team I fear in the battle for last place. Those 3 wins will take a couple of months for us to make up. LA, NJ, and the Blues will get enough wins so I think they are safe.

So. Im going to go a little off the reservation here and say it's not all bad.

Aside from the first period again there was quite a bit to build on. They played with some speed and urgency and as the pucks moved faster up the ice the game was actually pretty good to watch.

Strome is going to be a player when he figures out the fitness side and can skate more than 12 mins. To be fair I think Phoenix sitting him and playing him minimal minutes didn't help. But he is certainly a NHL center and isn't terrible. Going to need to be patient there.

Manning and Rutta are pretty bad. One gets replaced by Mitchell as soon as he can sign. Id eat the money now and see what Carlsson, Dalhbeck or Hillman can give you today. The players may not want to think about next year but management and the staff should.

The holes are pretty evident. The "third" pairing guys plus Seabrook are a constant problem and the 4th line has zero value and the third isnt much better. Cant check, cant bum slay, cant tred water against other 4th lines. And they are one top talented forward short in the top six.

You can see why JC is diluting the top players across 3 lines.

I think the more talented players are starting to get it but the bottom guys are just so darn bad the good players are going to be tired / injured really soon and thats why you don't see sustained 60 minute hockey.

This roster was so horridly constructed I don't know that Bowman is the guy to start flipping the veterans and honestly what does Keith or any of the others really get you back? Karlsson got Ottawa nothing. Kessel went to Pitt for basically junk, nothing that made Toronto immediately better. Unless its a salary dump or to clear a roster spot for someone better, probably a waste to let him go.
- fattybeef

I thought the same thing Fatty. Watching the second and third period, this team has the fight in them. The first period blunders continue to baffle me, I simply dont get it.

I listen to that Hawks Talk Podcast and was surprised how opinionated Mayers was allowed to be on there. He made a fantastic point, that 75% of the struggles are on this system. The reason for that, is these players need to be thinking while playing in their own zone. That's no way to play the game because it causes you to play tight and not instinctively. Colliton has been been handed some poopty cards, but he has brought in a system that is a complete 180 from Q's. Not really a recipe for quick success.

Should he grow a moustache?

He could look like these guys and wouldn't make a difference but the sunglasses are not a bad idea.


- bogiedoc

Nope, Frank Beard, calm cool and collected behind the action.

But if your blocking shots you don't have the puck?

Another beaut from the analytics committee.

So sad... Please "Q" the song Jeremy by Pearl Jam.. [/img]

So. Im going to go a little off the reservation here and say it's not all bad.

Aside from the first period again there was quite a bit to build on. They played with some speed and urgency and as the pucks moved faster up the ice the game was actually pretty good to watch.

Strome is going to be a player when he figures out the fitness side and can skate more than 12 mins. To be fair I think Phoenix sitting him and playing him minimal minutes didn't help. But he is certainly a NHL center and isn't terrible. Going to need to be patient there.

Manning and Rutta are pretty bad. One gets replaced by Mitchell as soon as he can sign. Id eat the money now and see what Carlsson, Dalhbeck or Hillman can give you today. The players may not want to think about next year but management and the staff should.

The holes are pretty evident. The "third" pairing guys plus Seabrook are a constant problem and the 4th line has zero value and the third isnt much better. Cant check, cant bum slay, cant tred water against other 4th lines. And they are one top talented forward short in the top six.

You can see why JC is diluting the top players across 3 lines.

I think the more talented players are starting to get it but the bottom guys are just so darn bad the good players are going to be tired / injured really soon and thats why you don't see sustained 60 minute hockey.

This roster was so horridly constructed I don't know that Bowman is the guy to start flipping the veterans and honestly what does Keith or any of the others really get you back? Karlsson got Ottawa nothing. Kessel went to Pitt for basically junk, nothing that made Toronto immediately better. Unless its a salary dump or to clear a roster spot for someone better, probably a waste to let him go.
- fattybeef

How exactly did Ottawa get nothing? They got plenty for an over-rated Karlsson.

Tierney is a middle 6 C that wins his share of draws and contributes. He is only 24 and has probably his peak years just to come.

Demelo is just 25 and can play a decent #4. Adds a little offense and is pretty steady.

Josh Norris - 1st Round pick who is only 19 and still developing.

Rudolfs Balcers - 5th rounder who is 21 and putting up some okay AHL numbers. 23 goals and 48 points last year in the AHL and has 10 goals and 8 assists so far this season.

Plus they also get a 1st round pick and a second round pick.

Additionally they have a good chance at an extra conditional pick (2 conditional picks, but unlikely they'd get both)

Ottawa is rebuilding and didn't want big salary coming back. They got a lot for Karlsson. Still a chance SJ might just lose him for nothing since they still haven't resigned him.

Glad he had the kahonas to say it!

"They played like men, and we couldn't match it."


https://twitter.com/nbcsb.../1072701865119358977?s=21

probably so...bloated contracts, the cap, and mismanagement I guess made this inevitable
- bogiedoc

The game has shifted too, I think, to a faster pace. I think Bowman might have seen the trend coming, and drafted accordingly. The problem is that the other teams drafted faster, better players by being less successful than we were. We have some faster, smaller players, but they are less talented. We are having problems keeping up with them now, and have been for several years.

Yes, FIRE EM ALL!!! That's a great way to resolve the problem.
- paulr

Yes it is the exact way to fix the problem. When something is a huge dumpster fire you put it out you don’t just watch it burn.

It's painful going through rough patches like this but it's the cyclical nature of sports. Not many teams stay on top forever, we were lucky to see our Blackhawks dominate for a decade and win 3 championships and for that I will always be thankful.

The main thing that will make this team is time. Time for the prospects to develop and become NHL ready. It may be a couple of years before the likes of Boqvist, Beaudin and Mitchell are NHL ready but I would rather the team take their time and develop the prospect right instead of rushing them.

While I agree with those calling for Bowman to be let go we need to be realistic about the situation. If Bowman is replaced will that make the aging core play like they're 25? No. Will it make the likes of DeBrincat, Strome and Jokiharju become the new Toews, Kane and Keith? No. Will it make it easier for the team to possible trade Keith or Seabrook? No.

This season is a write-off. While I don't like to see the team lose a top 3 draft pick could be the best thing for the team in the long wrong. For me this season was about the development of certain young players and prospects and we've seen lots of encouraging signs so far. The true test of this team's direction will be this off season. The team will have the flexibility to make trades and free agent signing more than they have in the past decade. Plus it will be interesting to see if Boqvist can make the jump to the NHL like Jokiharju did this season.
- DarthKane

Great post, DK, I agree.

It's painful going through rough patches like this but it's the cyclical nature of sports. Not many teams stay on top forever, we were lucky to see our Blackhawks dominate for a decade and win 3 championships and for that I will always be thankful.

The main thing that will make this team is time. Time for the prospects to develop and become NHL ready. It may be a couple of years before the likes of Boqvist, Beaudin and Mitchell are NHL ready but I would rather the team take their time and develop the prospect right instead of rushing them.

While I agree with those calling for Bowman to be let go we need to be realistic about the situation. If Bowman is replaced will that make the aging core play like they're 25? No. Will it make the likes of DeBrincat, Strome and Jokiharju become the new Toews, Kane and Keith? No. Will it make it easier for the team to possible trade Keith or Seabrook? No.

This season is a write-off. While I don't like to see the team lose a top 3 draft pick could be the best thing for the team in the long wrong. For me this season was about the development of certain young players and prospects and we've seen lots of encouraging signs so far. The true test of this team's direction will be this off season. The team will have the flexibility to make trades and free agent signing more than they have in the past decade. Plus it will be interesting to see if Boqvist can make the jump to the NHL like Jokiharju did this season.
- DarthKane

Very well said Darth. This season is tough, but I remember going to games during the Daze and Zhamnov years.. It’d be nice to contend every year, but that’s not realistic.

Guys are right. The team has won plenty and all teams do eventually rise and fall. To me that isn't the issue. The hard part is just how they are losing right now. To be absolutely the worst on special teams. PP is dead last and PK is second last. To have the lead for less than a minute over a span of 11 games. That is hard to watch. Rebuilding and finishing last is one thing, but it would be nice to get a positive now and then. The top end guys are actually playing pretty well all things considered (Kane, Toews, DeBrincat..) but the team has just flat-lined so fast.

It's painful going through rough patches like this but it's the cyclical nature of sports. Not many teams stay on top forever, we were lucky to see our Blackhawks dominate for a decade and win 3 championships and for that I will always be thankful.

The main thing that will make this team is time. Time for the prospects to develop and become NHL ready. It may be a couple of years before the likes of Boqvist, Beaudin and Mitchell are NHL ready but I would rather the team take their time and develop the prospect right instead of rushing them.

While I agree with those calling for Bowman to be let go we need to be realistic about the situation. If Bowman is replaced will that make the aging core play like they're 25? No. Will it make the likes of DeBrincat, Strome and Jokiharju become the new Toews, Kane and Keith? No. Will it make it easier for the team to possible trade Keith or Seabrook? No.

This season is a write-off. While I don't like to see the team lose a top 3 draft pick could be the best thing for the team in the long wrong. For me this season was about the development of certain young players and prospects and we've seen lots of encouraging signs so far. The true test of this team's direction will be this off season. The team will have the flexibility to make trades and free agent signing more than they have in the past decade. Plus it will be interesting to see if Boqvist can make the jump to the NHL like Jokiharju did this season.
- DarthKane

Here's what concerns me DK. Say we get a top 3 pick, what if they are not fully ready to play in the show and they need to go to the AHL or possibly go back to where they came from. Will the presence of McD allow that to happen? Will he say, we need that prospect in the lineup now so we can market and fill the stadium again. This is why he needs to go. Get rid of McD and let Stan do what he was hired to do and lean on hockey people to make the best decisions for this organization. Marketing helped turn the franchise around but the on ice product is what makes money. THis fan base feels duped this season with all the tire pumping the brass has done.

But if your blocking shots you don't have the puck?

Another beaut from the analytics committee.
- Garnie

Blocking shots is like killing rats. It's better to do it than not, but if you're doing it all the time you have bigger problems.

Sikura and Dahlstrom recalled from the Rock

AA to IR and Fortin back to the Rock

I agree with Left coast .So the HAWKS are lousy right now ,we had a great run one I never thought I would see .
Coach Q run was over ,he had to go .And I don't believe the HAWKS would be any better with Q behind the bench ,it not like they were lighting the world on fire with him the last 2 years (big sample size ) .
Now bringing in JC was ok ,but forcing management puppets as his assistants was idiotic .A coach needs people he is familiar with and trust ,it's like they threw JC in the deep end with both hands tied behind his back .
I don't believe this was solely Stan's decision ,but he may pay the price for this .

I have liked some of Stan's moves ,he been hamstrung by Q indifference , his draft record is not bad for where he has been drafting from . Seebs contract in hindsight is bad and his recent FA were well bad .I have no prof or inside info but IMO Q had a hand in those recent signing

Stan and his team have a vision for what the future of league is and are drafting accordingly .I don't necessarily agree with this vision .Yes speed is important ,but size and toughness are also going to be part of this game . So I am not sure Stan and his team are right to be making the decisions for the future .

If Stan get's the axe for his part in the JC affair so be it ,but it should not stop there .
They need to bring in real hockey people to run the HOCKEY side of the operation .Mark Hunter right now is the BEST !! by far GM prospect out their ,bring another hockey guy and let McD run the marking and nothing else .Give JC a redo with a training camp and his own assistants. If not let Mark pick a coach he can work with .
But really HAWKS have a great run I rather drop straight to the bottom then be middling for 5 years .
Rocky has to be ruthless and I am not sure it in his DNA . Time to be making big decisions I hope they are the right ones ..GO HAWKS !!!!!!!!!

Glad he had the kahonas to say it!

"They played like men, and we couldn't match it."


https://twitter.com/nbcsb.../1072701865119358977?s=21
- walleyeb1

its been men vs boys for quite awhile...

0-6 in december...nothing close to complete 60 minute game; 40 second lead in the last 660 minutes of hockey....just wow.

i think they can eek out a few pts in december but it looks at best a 1-13-1

I thought the same thing Fatty. Watching the second and third period, this team has the fight in them. The first period blunders continue to baffle me, I simply dont get it.

I listen to that Hawks Talk Podcast and was surprised how opinionated Mayers was allowed to be on there. He made a fantastic point, that 75% of the struggles are on this system. The reason for that, is these players need to be thinking while playing in their own zone. That's no way to play the game because it causes you to play tight and not instinctively. Colliton has been been handed some poopty cards, but he has brought in a system that is a complete 180 from Q's. Not really a recipe for quick success.
- nickmo2699

I'm going to disagree on the whole system bit. These guys were missing coverage and getting lit up with Q behind the bench. They were bad at executing either as a team.

They just dont have comparable talent.

Kruger and whoever skates on the 4th line have been largely bad. Fortin, Kamf, Hayden all try really hard but don't have a whole lot to offer and Kamf and Hayden are probably decent 4th liners and that's really it right now.

Skating players they are way out of their talent range is the problem. The Hawks front office thought they could ride Crow stopping 93% of what came his way and Kane and Toews willing them to a playoff spot while other talent maturated.

They are not good enoigh to win consistently with any coach in any system unless you inject 2 or 3 significantly more talented players into the bottom 6 and bottom pairing.

Here's what concerns me DK. Say we get a top 3 pick, what if they are not fully ready to play in the show and they need to go to the AHL or possibly go back to where they came from. Will the presence of McD allow that to happen? Will he say, we need that prospect in the lineup now so we can market and fill the stadium again. This is why he needs to go. Get rid of McD and let Stan do what he was hired to do and lean on hockey people to make the best decisions for this organization. Marketing helped turn the franchise around but the on ice product is what makes money. THis fan base feels duped this season with all the tire pumping the brass has done.
- nickmo2699

I hear you, but I am confident that the team will not rush prospects into the NHL. We've seen that with Boqvist going to London and Sikura to Rockford (and not being recalled right away).

I have no problem with McD marketing the hell out of this team, in fact I think he should. The more exposure and more revenue for the team the better off they are. The balance would be to not allow this to interfere with hockey operations. If McD truly has a long-term strategy he won't rush Boqvist, Beaudin or the next top pick. If McD wants headlines there are other ways to go about this. Sikura can be marketed for next season and if the Hawks are active in free agency this summer there will be another opportunity for tire-pumping.

I agree with Left coast .So the HAWKS are lousy right now ,we had a great run one I never thought I would see .
Coach Q run was over ,he had to go .And I don't believe the HAWKS would be any better with Q behind the bench ,it not like they were lighting the world on fire with him the last 2 years (big sample size ) .
Now bringing in JC was ok ,but forcing management puppets as his assistants was idiotic .A coach needs people he is familiar with and trust ,it's like they threw JC in the deep end with both hands tied behind his back .
I don't believe this was solely Stan's decision ,but he may pay the price for this .

I have liked some of Stan's moves ,he been hamstrung by Q indifference , his draft record is not bad for where he has been drafting from . Seebs contract in hindsight is bad and his recent FA were well bad .I have no prof or inside info but IMO Q had a hand in those recent signing

Stan and his team have a vision for what the future of league is and are drafting accordingly .I don't necessarily agree with this vision .Yes speed is important ,but size and toughness are also going to be part of this game . So I am not sure Stan and his team are right to be making the decisions for the future .

If Stan get's the axe for his part in the JC affair so be it ,but it should not stop there .
They need to bring in real hockey people to run the HOCKEY side of the operation .Mark Hunter right now is the BEST !! by far GM prospect out their ,bring another hockey guy and let McD run the marking and nothing else .Give JC a redo with a training camp and his own assistants. If not let Mark pick a coach he can work with .
But really HAWKS have a great run I rather drop straight to the bottom then be middling for 5 years .
Rocky has to be ruthless and I am not sure it in his DNA . Time to be making big decisions I hope they are the right ones ..GO HAWKS !!!!!!!!!
- oldduffman

Stan isn't the guy to fix what the created, Hextall would be tempting
to me as GM

Good post

One way to look at it is that they knew this would be a lost season, so why waste it on a proven coach. Throw Colliton to the wolves. If he succeeds, maybe they have something. If he fails, you haven't burned time and money with an established coach.

Another way to look at it is that Colliton is trying to implement a new system with young players who aren't that talented, and veterans who have played 10 years in a completely different system and may not be suited for it. In retrospect, Stan and McD probably should have made the change in the off-season and given Colliton the chance to establish his system in camp. They deluded themselves into what they had as a team, OR they knew and deluded fans in order to sell more tickets.

As awful as this season is, it isn't the end of the world. Go full force into the rebuild. Pick up assets in young players and picks. This Cup era is closed. Go create the next one.
- jam10sugar

I get your 2nd point. However, the thing with your 1st point is that if Colliton continues to fail and for some reason gets canned, then the Hawks are out 2 good to great coaches and not just one in Q.

Your point about firing Q and naming Colliton coach before the season started may have helped. Not fully but part of a better plan.

Another solution would have been to let Colliton continue in Rockford for at least another season. Or name a different interim coach and have him as an associate.

Alas, doesn’t matter anymore. Decisions already made.

I hear you, but I am confident that the team will not rush prospects into the NHL. We've seen that with Boqvist going to London and Sikura to Rockford (and not being recalled right away).

I have no problem with McD marketing the hell out of this team, in fact I think he should. The more exposure and more revenue for the team the better off they are. The balance would be to not allow this to interfere with hockey operations. If McD truly has a long-term strategy he won't rush Boqvist, Beaudin or the next top pick. If McD wants headlines there are other ways to go about this. Sikura can be marketed for next season and if the Hawks are active in free agency this summer there will be another opportunity for tire-pumping.
- DarthKane

Up thread Sikura promoted

Blocking shots is like killing rats. It's better to do it than not, but if you're doing it all the time you have bigger problems.
- BINGO!

Meh, analytics is way overused by hockey fans at this point in time...

JMO