Patrick is struggling but so is the rest of the team but the 1st line. I said it before, the combination of Simmer, Patrick and JVR does not work. Hak needed to change that quicker in my opinion. I like Jake back with Patrick and I prefer to see JVR with them. I love Simmer but he is more of a grinder, I think JVR has better skill. Patrick is decent at reading the play and getting back but struggles getting into the O zone and setting up. Let Jake do that and have JVR crash the net. Jake will get JVR more touches, hopefully Patricks confidence will pick up with those two.


Seems Nico is having a slow season also.

Agreed as Hak totally let in a bad first goal or turned the Puck over on a bad pass in OT then got beat on the boards.
- opeth_pa

on the players for sure but chemistry is important. I don't think Hak is using the right combinations and Hextall did him no favor with Center position coming in. I think they banked on Patrick being a 2nd year wonder boy

I see things in their game that gives me hope that they can make a run at the playoffs. A maddening team for sure...

Team positive

Patrick is struggling but so is the rest of the team but the 1st line. I said it before, the combination of Simmer, Patrick and JVR does not work. Hak needed to change that quicker in my opinion. I like Jake back with Patrick and I prefer to see JVR with them. I love Simmer but he is more of a grinder, I think JVR has better skill. Patrick is decent at reading the play and getting back but struggles getting into the O zone and setting up. Let Jake do that and have JVR crash the net. Jake will get JVR more touches, hopefully Patricks confidence will pick up with those two.


Seems Nico is having a slow season also.
- wcorvette

Not like we had the option of drafting nico... Patrick was also a consensus top 2 pick. These guys that went 12th 14th and are getting off to quicker starts are 20/20 hindsight. I still think the kid can be special even if he has a coots like trajectory of development in the league.

Getting a strong 3c fringe 2c who could handle more defensively would go a long way there. Laughton looked really good but he ideally would be a 3c/4c.

As far as shake ups fletcher said hes going on the road trip with the team and has breakfast with his coaches every morning. I expect him to get a better feeling for this team and maybe, just maybe if we see a move it would be around xmas.

So aggravating to watch that game last night. They lacked any sort of cohesion in the first 40 minutes. When they weren't killing penalties (which it seemed like they were doing for half the game) they just looked like a bunch of guys skating around slapping the puck here and there. Spending way too much time in the defensive zone. Powerplay looked like crap. At least their PK looks a little better. Definitely more aggressive.

Frustrating loss to a very beatable team At least we got a loser point.

RE JVR

JVR is not the kind of player who is going to create his own offense, he needs to have a quality playmaker who can feed him the puck where he likes it, in order for him to score with any regularity.

RE Coots

Did he make a bad play on the OT goal? Yup, without question. However, the real question comes in 2 parts:

A. Should have he been out there to start the OT?
Answer: IMO, no. You go all out to win in OT. The starting trio should have been G, Jake and Ghost

B. Are they overusing and over relying on Coots?
Answer yes: At the start of OT he had played over 23 minutes. That is simply too much ice time for a forward. He does this way too often and it's going to cause him to become fatigued late in games and thus make mistakes

What is the solution?

They have 2 choices. One, you go out and pick up another quality center who is at least a strong 3C who can step up on a 2nd line when needed. Or, you move Giroux to center. Laughton, Weal and Lehtera are not top 9 centers, no amount of tinkering with their linemates will make them top 9 centers.

Until a trade is made, my lines would be:
TK-Coots-Jake
JVR-Giroux-Raffl
Lindblom-Patrick-Simmonds
Laughton-Lehtera-Weise

And, if you really want an optimal lineup, you waive Neuvirth as soon as Elliott is good to go, and bring up NAK. Lehtera can join Weal in the Cote Suite and your 4th line is Weise-Laughton-NAK

All four lines have some size, and at least a couple guys who are average or better NHL skaters. The top 2 lines each have a quality playmaker and guys that can finish. They also have at least one quality defensive forward too. The 3rd line is a big line with skill that can play the cycle game and won't hurt you in any zone and the upgraded 4th line has wheels, a bit of size and grit and a bit of skill.

IMO, this is the best forward lineup they can ice without making a deal.

A. Should have he been out there to start the OT?
Answer: IMO, no. You go all out to win in OT. The starting trio should have been G, Jake and Ghost



- BiggE

For the start of OT, the Flyers put out their best defenseman in Provorov, their #1 center in Couturier and Konecny who had a really strong game. The coach stated in the post game that Couturier and Provorov had really good games. No reason why it's a bad call to start them in the OT. That's not what lost the game.

Yeah. Anyone who thought recent changes would address the issues is off target. I'm hoping that fletch doesn't wait til the deadline to shake things up. If we get creamed on the road trip which I expect, make the changes now.

I like sanheim but I expect he's a piece that will be moved to shake things up. Probably turn into a Norris dman for another squad. Haha
- Hextall271

Honestly if they get creamed on the road trip, and go something like 1-4-1, the season is over. They will simply have too many teams to pass and too many points needed to earn to have a chance of making the playoffs. Any moves from that point on need to be made with 19-20 in mind.

For the start of OT, the Flyers put out their best defenseman in Provorov, their #1 center in Couturier and Konecny who had a really strong game. The coach stated in the post game that Couturier and Provorov had really good games. No reason why it's a bad call to start them in the OT. That's not what lost the game.
- MJL

Not saying it's the primary reason they lost. They lost because they only played well for about 20 minutes out of 61. I'm just saying that when you look at how they've fared in OT the last few seasons, their most successful trio, by far, has been G, Jake and Ghost. That's the trio I'm always going to start OT with. I don't care about who the other team puts out there. Let them worry about matching up with our trio instead.

Giroux is the best faceoff man on the team and gives the best chance to start OT with a clean possession. Starting him with Jake and Ghost gives them the best chance to win the game before the other team even gets a chance with the puck.

on the players for sure but chemistry is important. I don't think Hak is using the right combinations and Hextall did him no favor with Center position coming in. I think they banked on Patrick being a 2nd year wonder boy
- wcorvette

Based on the way he played in the second half of last season, I think we all expected Patrick to make a leap forward in his play given he was 100% healthy and had a full off season to prepare.

Not saying it's the primary reason they lost. They lost because they only played well for about 20 minutes out of 61. I'm just saying that when you look at how they've fared in OT the last few seasons, their most successful trio, by far, has been G, Jake and Ghost. That's the trio I'm always going to start OT with. I don't care about who the other team puts out there. Let them worry about matching up with our trio instead.

Giroux is the best faceoff man on the team and gives the best chance to start OT with a clean possession. Starting him with Jake and Ghost gives them the best chance to win the game before the other team even gets a chance with the puck.
- BiggE

I should've said not why they got scored on in OT rather than why they lost the game. They had clean possession of the puck to start the OT. Giroux is at 58.9% and Couturier at 55.5% in faceoffs. I don't see any problem with who started in OT.

Based on the way he played in the second half of last season, I think we all expected Patrick to make a leap forward in his play given he was 100% healthy and had a full off season to prepare.
- MBFlyerfan

Yeah, he's been a bit of a disappointment, no doubt. But the added defensive responsibility that he's been given along with the shuffling linemates isn't really doing him any favors either. Hextall screwed this one up, there is no way around it. Letting Filppula go was the right call as he was clearly wearing down as the season went on. However, Hextall needed to do whatever it took to bring in another quality 3C that could do some heavy lifting in the D zone and kill penalties. Not doing so, along with not moving on from Neuvirth were 2 critical mistakes that led to his downfall.

I should've said not why they got scored on in OT rather than why they lost the game. They had clean possession of the puck to start the OT. Giroux is at 58.9% and Couturier at 55.5% in faceoffs. I don't see any problem with who started in OT.
- MJL

I'll agree to disagree. I honestly thought Coots was spent at the end of the game. The mistake he made is the kind of mistake good players make when they are fatigued. Sadly if the team had played a more consistent game throughout, we wouldn't even be talking about the OT today, but it is what it is.

Ron picked the wrong center unfortunately for us. It sucks but it's true.
- Cootehill

Right? Ronald's such an idiot. Should of drafted Nico

I'll agree to disagree. I honestly thought Coots was spent at the end of the game. The mistake he made is the kind of mistake good players make when they are fatigued. Sadly if the team had played a more consistent game throughout, we wouldn't even be talking about the OT today, but it is what it is.
- BiggE

I don't think it had anything to do with fatigue. I agree completely on the latter point.

Sanheim jumping up in play was also refreshing?
Mr. Wilson's call?
- Konalover

And paired with Ghost at that time. It was like who's putting that pair out there?

And paired with Ghost at that time. It was like who's putting that pair out there?
- dragonoffrost

They have done that in a few games this year when down in the third

Not saying it's the primary reason they lost. They lost because they only played well for about 20 minutes out of 61. I'm just saying that when you look at how they've fared in OT the last few seasons, their most successful trio, by far, has been G, Jake and Ghost. That's the trio I'm always going to start OT with. I don't care about who the other team puts out there. Let them worry about matching up with our trio instead.

Giroux is the best faceoff man on the team and gives the best chance to start OT with a clean possession. Starting him with Jake and Ghost gives them the best chance to win the game before the other team even gets a chance with the puck.
- BiggE

I get what your saying but I also understand Hakstols strategy. He uses his top defender and selke nominated center to go against the other teams top line and then follows that with Giroux's trio where they should get a favorable matchup.

My game observations:

- I know he had an assist but Voracek wasn't good last night in my opinion. He just seems to disappear too much for me for to long of stretches for a guy getting paid over 8 mil.

- Stolarz needs to make that first save. He didn't lose the game but they had momentum after scoring first and that goal just can't happen.

- Anderson seemed to do whatever he wanted out there. I understand sometimes you can't address it every instance but why do I feel like this team doesn't want to answer the bell. Not saying they needed to drop the gloves but where was the extra whack on Bobrovsky after a safe like Anderson did to Stolarz.

- Laughton just doesn't seem to be a 3rd line center. Right now the Flyers need one. Also Lindblom needs to be in the top 9. I don't need to see Raffl there.

- Loved Sanheim pushing the pace offensively. If this team can get a healthy Morin, I am not saying he will fix everything, but he will add an element they just don't have. I wonder how many cross checks from Anderson he would have let happen before handling it.

- Really need more from van Riemsdyk and Patrick. I can give Patrick a little leeway being only his 2nd year but van Riemsdyk was signed for a reason. Need to see more.

Hakstol can make Patrick 3C by moving G back to C. I would do that for now.
- FlyerFan16

I've been saying this for a while now. Much more balanced lines.

JVR-Giroux-Konecny
Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek
Raffl-Patrick-Simmonds
Weise-Laughton-Weal/Lehtera

RE: OT

Hak has seemed to have 2 units he'd run out there at the start and uses them based on how he felt the game was going.

Coots-TK-Provy started a lot of games last season and TK won them in the first shift.
G-Jake-Ghost has also been strong at the start.

It's reallly a coin flip.

And paired with Ghost at that time. It was like who's putting that pair out there?
- dragonoffrost

I actually giggled like a school girl with happiness thst they put that pairing together late to try and tie it. Maybe sanheim could take that pp2 spot from provy so he could re focus his game some.

Patrick is underwhelming
- Buzzo

IMO Patrick just needs time to adjust his game to the NHL. He is a 2 way player that has skills across the board. Guys that step right in and are good from day 1 are typically speedy snipers. Over time, Patrick will be as good or better then them.

Agreed as Hak totally let in a bad first goal or turned the Puck over on a bad pass in OT then got beat on the boards.
- opeth_pa

I’m sure hextall was the cause

- Loved Sanheim pushing the pace offensively. If this team can get a healthy Morin, I am not saying he will fix everything, but he will add an element they just don't have. I wonder how many cross checks from Anderson he would have let happen before handling it.

- J35Bacher

That one sequence where he got like 5 on Provorov pissed me off because from my seat I could see the ref looking right at it and no call. It was like the ref was waiting for a retaliation to call both guys.

That one sequence where he got like 5 on Provorov pissed me off because from my seat I could see the ref looking right at it and no call. It was like the ref was waiting for a retaliation to call both guys.
- dragonoffrost

Watching Anderson last night just had me hoping that is the kind of player Wade Allison can be.

I feel like the Flyers could use someone like him. Big, mean, pain in the ass but has offense and can skate pretty well.