My thoughts...

Maybe the Hawks are tanking as we speak. They started the season "strong" then lost 8 in a row. We've won a few under JC and then we start this road trip and lose all 3. Maybe this is Rocky's plan all along. Get rid of Q and then Bowman around Christmas after we lose another 6 in a row.

Most of everyone here agrees that Rutta, Gustafsson, Manning, Kunitz, Hayden, Ward etc should be traded because they are taking spots from some "good talent" in Rockford. The real question is WHY HAVEN'T THE BLACKHAWKS MADE ANY TRADES YET? Don't feed me the garbage that "Trades are hard in the NHL due to salary cap issues." Edmonton traded Gretzky to LA for crying out loud. We traded Hossa who didn't play in over a year and won't play for the next five years to Arizona. If we were looking to trade one of our players, there would be rumors all over. I'm ok with a trade including Saad for Nylander. Saad peaked years ago and isn't the same guy who helped win the Stanley Cup. It probably won't happen anyway.

The only way to get top notch talent in this league is:

A. Trade for it
B. Draft it
C. Develop it.

The Blackhawks are good with the players that they have for now because people still go to the UC to watch them.

No.
I'm first.
I don't mind Manning leaving, but I see it as overpaying. I don't want Nylander's gross overpayment of a contract.
- I Am The Breadman

Curious as to why you think it would be a gross overpayment of a contract? He's been VERY good when on the ice and has a lot of offensive skill and potential to get even better. He's a clear upgrade over Schmaltz which would be offset by one of Mitchell or Beaudin and you pay them the draft pick to take Manning's contract off the cap as well. Again, not saying I would or wouldn't do it but it feels like it would be a fair deal for both sides. Leafs fans probably would $h!t all over it though lol

Curious as to why you think it would be a gross overpayment of a contract? He's been VERY good when on the ice and has a lot of offensive skill and potential to get even better. He's a clear upgrade over Schmaltz which would be offset by one of Mitchell or Beaudin and you pay them the draft pick to take Manning's contract off the cap as well. Again, not saying I would or wouldn't do it but it feels like it would be a fair deal for both sides. Leafs fans probably would $h!t all over it though lol
- Savetheembers33

I like Nylander, but not at nearly 9 mil thats the gross overpayment for his contract. The trade itself is an overpayment. I'm 1 of the few that likes Schmaltz. Mitchell or Beaudin are way too soon to trade now. We have been good in the 2nd and 3rd round. We don't have a 3rd this year. How is Nylander on d?

Interesting convo with a buddy:

If you were Stan and you could work out deals for ANY players in the league (salary cap/current Hawk Cap situation taken into account), what player(s) would you be acquiring to turn this franchise around?

Keep in mind that in this exercise, not a single player in the league is considered untouchable, and the GM's of the rival organizations have the green light to trade said-player(s) to you (i.e. McDavid, Matthews, Crosby, etc.), so this can be as fantasy as you'd like, but it also has to be realistic (sorry, Rutta + 1st wouldn't net you Nylander).

Other than the Hawks and maybe Penguins sucking into Malkin and Crosby, name them.
- HawkintheD

Lol...so other than 2 perfect, recent examples of sucking leading to drafting franchise changing talent you want me to name more?

Matthews, Marner, and Reilly all top 5 picks have the Leafs organization back on track

Stamkos and Hedman were the cornerstones that helped get TB back on track

Seth Jones and Zach Werenski in Columbus

MacKinnon, Landeskog, and Rantenen have given the Avs a bright future

It goes on and on and on...

But if it makes you feel better bringing up the Oilers just because they didn’t manage their assets, then so be it.

Tanking works. Sucking works. It helps bring in franchise changing talents at a high% rate. There is no disputing this.

No.
I'm first.
I don't mind Manning leaving, but I see it as overpaying. I don't want Nylander's gross overpayment of a contract.
- I Am The Breadman

100% yes... This would be an overpay.

Interesting convo with a buddy:

If you were Stan and you could work out deals for ANY players in the league (salary cap/current Hawk Cap situation taken into account), what player(s) would you be acquiring to turn this franchise around?

Keep in mind that in this exercise, not a single player in the league is considered untouchable, and the GM's of the rival organizations have the green light to trade said-player(s) to you (i.e. McDavid, Matthews, Crosby, etc.), so this can be as fantasy as you'd like, but it also has to be realistic (sorry, Rutta + 1st wouldn't net you Nylander).
- TommyHawk

McDavid to the Hawks for Kane, Schmaltz, Mitchell, and 1st round pick.

McDavid to the Hawks for Kane, Schmaltz, Mitchell, and 1st round pick.
- Flying Puck

I don't think that'd be enough, as crazy as that may seem

I think for McDavid, it would have to start with Kane+ADB+Boqvist, and even then it might not be enough.

I think McDavid is the lone player in the league that could truly revolutionize a franchise, but I think your culmination of assets are better used elsewhere to turn this organization around.

100% yes... This would be an overpay.
- breadbag

Just to add...I'm not sold that Nylander is really an upgrade compared to Schmaltz. Maybe you give Nylander a slight edge offensively but it isn't apples to apples comparing the teams they've been playing with. Schmaltz also adds some good 2-way play that I'm not sure you get as much with Nylander. Is a small bump in offense worth probably 30-50% more salary?

Also forgot to mention Ovi and Backstrom were top 5 picks

As was Doughty. Kopitar I’m pretty sure was top 10 too.

Basically you can argue that 9 of the past 10 Cup champs were originally built around players acquired as top draft picks due to sucking for a few years.

Sure you gotta then build the right pieces around those players and manage them wisely(unlike the Oilers), but the first step is tanking. It only helps your chances in the long run.

Ya but Rutta plays like he's 5'9 / 160 lbs.

Manning could make sense for that reason though.
- Justin Lowe

Ruutta Plain sucks Justin, can’t see WTF Bowman and was thinking about in the first place there, as someone had stated before this European beer league shuffle Has to stop with trying to catch lightning in a bottle. In Manning’s case I would like to see them work with him, I think he could be a good nuts and bolts defenseman if the great coach takes the chains off him. Hell Knows we can use a guy like Brian Marchmont or Dave Manson, wishful thinking on our blue Line to keep these forwards honest coming over the blue line and around our net Because what we have now you might as will just call them all except for Seabrook, Mr. Whipple. Soft as Charmin! Hopefully Connor Murphy comes back with something to prove and plays with the case of the ass also Under this new coach.
As far as tonight, I would love to see them wake up Tom Wilson, then we will see what some of these guys are made out of, probably one or two good hard stiff checks from him on Nick Schmaltz, Little Nicky will stay in the locker room and refuse to come out. On a serious note regarding this kid,I hope Bowman is shopping this kid And trying to correct that mistake of a pic.

Lol...so other than 2 perfect, recent examples of sucking leading to drafting franchise changing talent you want me to name more?

Matthews, Marner, and Reilly all top 5 picks have the Leafs organization back on track

Stamkos and Hedman were the cornerstones that helped get TB back on track

Seth Jones and Zach Werenski in Columbus

MacKinnon, Landeskog, and Rantenen have given the Avs a bright future

It goes on and on and on...

But if it makes you feel better bringing up the Oilers just because they didn’t manage their assets, then so be it.

Tanking works. Sucking works. It helps bring in franchise changing talents at a high% rate. There is no disputing this.
- SimpleJack

Seth Jones was drafted by Nashville, and was aquired by Columbus via trade.

Should the Leafs consider a Nylander-for-Saad trade?

https://www.tsn.ca/video/...er-for-saad-trade~1545640
- KMFDMLight

The hawks should inquire into Nylander, maybe you trade schmaltz for him.

Not saying I would or wouldn't do it, but I'm curious as to what you guys think.

Who says no first?

Nylander

for

Schmaltz, Mitchell/Beaudin, Manning, and a draft pick (likely 2nd or 3rd)
- Savetheembers33

Gross overpayment. Without a contract, Nylander's value is diminished because the new team has to sign him and then may have to go thru it again in a couple of years. But I would probably dump Manning and Scmaltz for him if he was signed @$6M. But then the Leafs would keep him at that salary.

The hawks should inquire into Nylander, maybe you trade schmaltz for him.
- Taylorst1

Schmaltz + for nylander plus nylander is not getting 8 million per year to unproven to this point maybe 6.5 million per year and is he a center or winger. Bowman will wait and miss out and if the hawks are considering trading schmaltz i would rather they trade him for big nasty power forward with skill speed physicality like a josh Anderson and sonny milano for schmaltz and a 4th and d prospect.

Seth Jones was drafted by Nashville, and was aquired by Columbus via trade.
- powerenforcer

You’re right my bad. Still a top 5 overall pick though. And the Jackets used Johansen who was also a top 5 overall pick to acquire him.

Just to add...I'm not sold that Nylander is really an upgrade compared to Schmaltz. Maybe you give Nylander a slight edge offensively but it isn't apples to apples comparing the teams they've been playing with. Schmaltz also adds some good 2-way play that I'm not sure you get as much with Nylander. Is a small bump in offense worth probably 30-50% more salary?
- breadbag

Better put than I said, BB.
How much longer until Nylander can't play for the year?

Better put than I said, BB.
How much longer until Nylander can't play for the year?
- I Am The Breadman

I think the deadline is Dec 1st.

I think the deadline is Dec 1st.
- Hawks_49

Thanks, 49.

Quick poll: does he sign, does he sit, or is he traded?

You’re right my bad. Still a top 5 overall pick though. And the Jackets used Johansen who was also a top 5 overall pick to acquire him.
- SimpleJack

And how many years do they have to rank to get enough top-5 picks PLUS development time to make a run?

As opposed to drafting well mid-first round (which they can do), developing better than they have, sign better than the have, and making better trades than they have?

Tanking is dumb, rarely works (so many perennial bottom feeders in the league who get high picks and don’t do anything with them), and wastes too many years of the quality players you DO have.

Losing does pervade through an organization - and then can’t be turned into a winning environment when you think they’re ready.

Thanks, 49.

Quick poll: does he sign, does he sit, or is he traded?
- I Am The Breadman

I'm gonna go with.... Signs at the very last moment

How do you even consider trading for Nylander if he's dead set sticking to his guns of $8 mil per long term?

You can't give you up a valuable package AND give him that kind of cheese for just scraping over 60 points for two years IMO

People need to stop overvaluing the pipeline prospects from Bowman on down to the fans.

There is NOT much NHL level talent in the Hawk system now. For example, Dylan Sikura doesn’t put them over the playoff edge this year. This situation is a combination of the price of success with low draft picks, a conscious shift to speed and skill at the expense of physical presence.

Top ten first rounders have a 68% chance of having a pension eligible NHL career - from there it’s all a crapshoot. So, getting someone in that top ten is the quickest path to adding young ELC NHL talent.

Ted Dent likely did no favors on the talent development side, and now JC is up with the big club.

I am inclined to agree the tank is the only path to rebuild a contending team. As such, I think we all would save ourselves a lot of grief by not holding on to the delusional belief that somehow there is enough transformational talent in the organization to make a hill of beans difference in at least the next few years.

As it stands today the NHL club has four legit forwards, two tweener forwards (NS/Saad), and a bunch of nothing after that.

They have three legit D guys in 2, 7 and Joki, but fuse almost burnt out on the first two, followed by a whole lot of 5-8 guys upslotted out of necessity.

And this group is trying to play a style of hockey they don’t have the horses for.

No cap room, no legit prospects close to moving up, and I think we will find it wasn’t Q either.

Am I wrong? I could be but I don’t think so.

Schmaltz + for nylander plus nylander is not getting 8 million per year to unproven to this point maybe 6.5 million per year and is he a center or winger. Bowman will wait and miss out and if the hawks are considering trading schmaltz i would rather they trade him for big nasty power forward with skill speed physicality like a josh Anderson and sonny milano for schmaltz and a 4th and d prospect.
- Scott1977

Scmaltz is asking for $6 million, biggest fear is Stan will do it without blinking.

People need to stop overvaluing the pipeline prospects from Bowman on down to the fans.

There is NOT much NHL level talent in the Hawk system now. For example, Dylan Sikura doesn’t put them over the playoff edge this year. This situation is a combination of the price of success with low draft picks, a conscious shift to speed and skill at the expense of physical presence.

Top ten first rounders have a 68% chance of having a pension eligible NHL career - from there it’s all a crapshoot. So, getting someone in that top ten is the quickest path to adding young ELC NHL talent.

Ted Dent likely did no favors on the talent development side, and now JC is up with the big club.

I am inclined to agree the tank is the only path to rebuild a contending team. As such, I think we all would save ourselves a lot of grief by not holding on to the delusional belief that somehow there is enough transformational talent in the organization to make a hill of beans difference in at least the next few years.

As it stands today the NHL club has four legit forwards, two tweener forwards (NS/Saad), and a bunch of nothing after that.

They have three legit D guys in 2, 7 and Joki, but fuse almost burnt out on the first two, followed by a whole lot of 5-8 guys upslotted out of necessity.

And this group is trying to play a style of hockey they don’t have the horses for.

No cap room, no legit prospects close to moving up, and I think we will find it wasn’t Q either.

Am I wrong? I could be but I don’t think so.
- Return of the Roar

Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong.

I will just say that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and I don't believe tanking is a solution to anything. I could use examples and you could use examples. I think we just disagree at the heart of it all.