Charlie O'Conner made a great point over at The Athletic about Q.

Basically, Q was criticized by many in Chicago for his refusal to use young players in significant roles in his lineup.

Sound familiar?
- johndewar

It certainly does sound familiar. In fact the same complaint seems to have been lodged against almost every successful NHL coach at one time or another. Maybe the key to winning is to play the vets that you have confidence in. Let the youth earn additional time by showing performance in the limited ice time they are given.

He's already lost a good amount of money and playing time. He's foolish. No need to continue to figure it out.
- MJL

I doubt you know enough about economics or what Nylander is after to make that determination, but you should enjoy your opinion, nonetheless.

I doubt you know enough about economics or what Nylander is after to make that determination, but you should enjoy your opinion, nonetheless.
- johndewar

Why do you think it is that a holdout like this rarely occurs? You act like you have to be an economic genius to know that the money he has lost here, he can never make up. I guess when you're a millionaire it may not matter but it's still foolish. I don't need to know the exact money he is after either. It's not a difficult concept. You can doubt whatever you want.

I swear it feels like the Oilers had a million top 3 picks and yes they have McD, Draisatl and RNH but wtf how do they not have more?

Why do you think it is that a holdout like this rarely occurs? You act like you have to be an economic genius to know that the money he has lost here, he can never make up. I guess when you're a millionaire it may not matter but it's still foolish. I don't need to know the exact money he is after either. It's not a difficult concept. You can doubt whatever you want.

- MJL

1.) You don't know anything about the offers Nylander has received from Toronto
2.) You don't know anything about the market for Nylander's services.

But your opinion is super well informed.

Let's let it play out, shall we?

Charlie O'Conner made a great point over at The Athletic about Q.

Basically, Q was criticized by many in Chicago for his refusal to use young players in significant roles in his lineup.

Sound familiar?
- johndewar

(frank)ing Hitchcock

(frank)ing Hitchcock
- KINGKENZO

Hitch always had a problem with youngsters.

He's a rookie in the NHL and he is on pace for a 16 goal, 40 point season. He's also strong on the forecheck and plays well defensively.
- MJL

That is why I think he should be in more of a third line role. Its asking a lot of a young player

Why do you think it is that a holdout like this rarely occurs?

- MJL

I have more to say on this.

The reason that holdouts like this rarely occur is that agents, who get a percentage of the contracts they negotiate like to get (frank)ing paid. Players, who are generally unsophisticated and uneducated on how economics work and their earning window, generally go along to get along. It's practically ingrained in the culture of sports.

William Nylander is a son of a hockey player and I bet he likely has an opinion of his worth. He might be right. He might be wrong.

I'd like to see this play out before we figure out that he (frank)ed up.

Here is something we have to ask. Are our top guys good enough? I like Giroux. I like Patrick, Couturier, Konecny. But look at Voracek. Yes I know his skills and he can put up points. But for what he is paid don't you want more?

I guess I just look at other players and wonder would I like Voracek and what he brings or would i be better of with maybe a more well rounded type of player who maybe isn't as dynamic but more solid.

I don't know anymore. This team is just so bland right now that I am not sure what the correct path is
- J35Bacher

It is a great question and one we don't know, but if you are asking me if our top guys, essentially Giroux and Voracek, are good enough to win a cup I say they are not. They are very good players, not great. And for me that is the problem. We are always going to be good enough but never great. I pray I'm wrong.

It is a great question and one we don't know, but if you are asking me if our top guys, essentially Giroux and Voracek, are good enough to win a cup I say they are not. They are very good players, not great. And for me that is the problem. We are always going to be good enough but never great. I pray I'm wrong.
- Cootehill

#2 in scoring isn't great?

#2 in scoring isn't great?
- Doctor DOOM

I don't think he is good enough to win a cup. I totally could be wrong and hope I am. Just my opinion, no need to laugh, just a discussion is all.

I don't think he is good enough to win a cup. I totally could be wrong and hope I am. Just my opinion, no need to laugh, just a discussion is all.
- Cootehill

It's a team sport, I have no doubt on Giroux's ability in the league. I think people have a distorted view on what a cup winning roster is.

William Nylander is a son of a hockey player and I bet he likely has an opinion of his worth. He might be right. He might be wrong.
- johndewar

Yeah, I have a feeling this is what's behind the decision. He's grown up around NHL rinks. He knows what to expect from his dad. And his dad wasn't the hometown discount, go with the flow kind of guy.

I'm sure they have a very clear idea of what they're after, and what they are willing to sacrifice to get it. Any money they lose now is immaterial if they can secure a higher salary trajectory for the future.

However the Nylander situation ends. The kid is going to have higher expectations than he's ever faced. Good luck with that. Also his brother and the Sabres are probably wondering where it puts them.

Yeah, I have a feeling this is what's behind the decision. He's grown up around NHL rinks. He knows what to expect from his dad. And his dad wasn't the hometown discount, go with the flow kind of guy.

I'm sure they have a very clear idea of what they're after, and what they are willing to sacrifice to get it. Any money they lose now is immaterial if they can secure a higher salary trajectory for the future.
- Tomahawk

Exactly my point.

Charlie O'Conner made a great point over at The Athletic about Q.

Basically, Q was criticized by many in Chicago for his refusal to use young players in significant roles in his lineup.

Sound familiar?
- johndewar

What young players would that be exactly? The Hawks front office has spent the last decade burning picks on rental after rental. You can't put that all on the coach.

What young players would that be exactly? The Hawks front office has spent the last decade burning picks on rental after rental. You can't put that all on the coach.
- hereticpride

I agree that doesn't make sense. If it wasn't for the young (cheap) players on Chicago they wouldn't be able to fill out the roster with their cap hell. He has put in players like DeBrincat, Hartman and Schmaltz as quick examples

That is why I think he should be in more of a third line role. Its asking a lot of a young player
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

That's why he should be in a 3rd line role? Those number are really good for a rookie. Those numbers are why he should remain right where he is.

I have more to say on this.

The reason that holdouts like this rarely occur is that agents, who get a percentage of the contracts they negotiate like to get (frank)ing paid. Players, who are generally unsophisticated and uneducated on how economics work and their earning window, generally go along to get along. It's practically ingrained in the culture of sports.

William Nylander is a son of a hockey player and I bet he likely has an opinion of his worth. He might be right. He might be wrong.

I'd like to see this play out before we figure out that he (frank)ed up.
- johndewar

No they rarely occur because it's stupid to do so and it doesn't make sense. Players have a limited career and a limited earning period. It's pretty clear that one side or maybe both are being unreasonable. I have my guess as to who it is. It doesn't matter how it turns out from here. He's being foolish..

Yeah, I have a feeling this is what's behind the decision. He's grown up around NHL rinks. He knows what to expect from his dad. And his dad wasn't the hometown discount, go with the flow kind of guy.

I'm sure they have a very clear idea of what they're after, and what they are willing to sacrifice to get it. Any money they lose now is immaterial if they can secure a higher salary trajectory for the future.
- Tomahawk

If Nylander had reasonable expectations from his Dad, who knows what to expect, wouldn't he be signed by now? If the Leafs were going to cave to his demands, wouldn't they have done so by now? He may be traded and another team might cave, we'll see but he can never make up what he lost. Especially if he sits out the season.

I agree that doesn't make sense. If it wasn't for the young (cheap) players on Chicago they wouldn't be able to fill out the roster with their cap hell. He has put in players like DeBrincat, Hartman and Schmaltz as quick examples
- Glak18

Brandon Saad is another. Hjalmarsson was essentially a rookie in the first Cup season.

I swear it feels like the Oilers had a million top 3 picks and yes they have McD, Draisatl and RNH but wtf how do they not have more?
- opeth_pa

Nothing. Like the sixers

Bill, I have some questions for you if you have the time.

Should Ron Hextall be facing criticism for going into the season with a goalie tandem featuring one guy coming off a major surgery and another who never makes it through a season without spending time on IR? To me, its baffling that the GM on one hand, says it's time for this team to take the next step, then does nothing to shore up a critical component of the team.

Along the same lines, should Hextall also be facing criticism for doing nothing to address the 3C position during the offseason?

Should the Flyers be in the market for an experienced NHL goalie?

Should the Flyers be looking to acquire another center who can fill the 3C role in the short term?

At the very least, if not relieved of his duties all together, should Ian Lapperierre at least be relieved of his PK coaching duties?

And finally, if they miss the playoffs this year, can Hextall realistically bring back Dave Hakstol as head coach in what would be a lame duck situation?

Thanks and here's wishing you and your family a very happy Thanksgiving!
- BiggE

The third line center is just one hole. I think the bigger picture is the entire mix within the bottom six. The Flyers have an opportunity to fix this issue, this coming off season.

The issue is inconsistency within special teams. Consistency from our best player being our best players every night. Hextall has chosen to sign/keep our goaltender around, knowing their history of injury, while neither can be relied on to carry the load. I think Hextall takes some blame but you need the players and coaches to do their jobs.

Hitch always had a problem with youngsters.


- johndewar

Are we still harping on Sharp? Is he even a lot anymore?