I will never debate the Flyers need an upgraded solution for goaltending, but what about the problems in front of that solution. The Flyers got good goaltending against Florida and New Jersey...that didn't put pucks in the net.
- Glak18

I cannot for a second defend the goalies. I may be wrong on that one but so be it I suppose.

I cannot think of many clubs that would willingly swap our their tandems for the Flyers. Factoring in play, health, consistency and reliability, etc. Thats the focal point.

Kind of ends there for me. Its a huge issue when looking at the overall player makeup of the team imo.

Okay, so remember the NJ game. The score is 1-0 NJ in the 3rd period. There is about 7 minutes left and the Flyers are still in the game and still have a chance to tie it up and get to OT and win. What happens? The Flyers #1 center and Selke finalist forward is skating the puck up ice at the NJ blueline and there are two NJ defenders standing up and the blueline and another checker pinching him off laterally across the blueline. What does Couturier do? He tries to stick handle through it and turns the puck over. Palmieri skates all the way to the net with clean ice and puts NJ ups 2-0. The game is now over.

How about on the 5 on 3 PK against TB? TB runs a simple set play that every player and every fan has seen umpteen times. The idea of sitting in a triangle formation is to keep the puck to the outside and have a player in any shooting lane. Johnson moves from the wall across the ice and you can see it coming before it happens. Couturier fails to have his stick in position and allows a cross ice pass and a one time goal.

How about on the first Point goal. He skates to the net unchallenged, Provorov fails to nullify his stick and has an easy deflection goal.

I could go on and on.

According to you the coaches haven't taught the players that this isn't the right way to play. That fundamentals you learn in the first year of juniors have to be taught by the coaching staff. The coaches should scratch or bench Couturier and Provorov and go to the GM and tell him that these guys aren't the right players. Or how about the turnovers Voracek has made in OT. Same thing with him, correct?

How about for a change the players hold themselves and their teammates accountable and the leadership of the team show by example that this is unacceptable. That repeated and routine fundamental mistakes are not acceptable. That simple plays like not chipping it deep and not managing the puck is unacceptable.

Remember how Hitchcock talked about how Primeau was a bridge from the coaching staff to the players and how the leadership insisted that things were done a certain way to get the message of the coaches through?

Such nonsense giving the players a pass and putting it all on the coaches.
- MJL

This bit at the end is pretty key. Primeau was a great leader in the room. So was Pronger. So was Clarke. But sometimes your best player isn't the best guy to wear the C.

HB Posters: We need to make a trade to get better.
MJL: that would be a panic move


HB Posters: Ok then lets get a new voice to see if we can right this ship.
MJL: Firing the coach isn't going to be the magic fix. The players should get the blame

HB Posters:
- J35Bacher

It's more like J35Bacher "lets see what fantasy trade I can pull out of my kiester today that I made on NHL 18!"

So lets clarify. I have never stated that the Flyers should not make a trade to make the team better. That always goes without saying. What they shouldn't do is panic and make reactionary trades just due to the current state of the team.

As far as the coaching is concerned. I have said repeatedly that I'm not against a coaching change for the PK but I've also said it's not going to automatically fix the problems.

If you're going to call me out, get your facts straight. You failed in this attempt.

It's more like J35Bacher "lets see what fantasy trade I can pull out of my kiester today that I made on NHL 18!"

So lets clarify. I have never stated that the Flyers should not make a trade to make the team better. That always goes without saying. What they shouldn't do is panic and make reactionary trades just due to the current state of the team.

As far as the coaching is concerned. I have said repeatedly that I'm not against a coaching change for the PK but I've also said it's not going to automatically fix the problems.

If you're going to call me out, get your facts straight. You failed in this attempt.
- MJL

So you're not against a new PK coach but criticize people that say the team needs a new PK coach?

I see MJL's point. Lappy didn't tell Laughton to go completely out of position or Couturier to not have his stick in the lane. It's on the players to execute fundamentals properly.

I cannot for a second defend the goalies. I may be wrong on that one but so be it I suppose.

I cannot think of many clubs that would willingly swap our their tandems for the Flyers. Factoring in play, health, consistency and reliability, etc. Thats the focal point.

Kind of ends there for me. Its a huge issue when looking at the overall player makeup of the team imo.
- flyer_nutter

The goal situation is the same as the situation on defense and the situation of forward depth and especially having four NHL caliber good centers. The answers are (hopefully) in the pipeline (although its impossible to predict how good Hart will be. But the cavalry on defense and forwards wont be ready until 2020 or 2021. No amount of wishing or demanding the team play prospects who are struggling at the AHL level in place of experienced players who are better NOW will solve the problem. Because a prospect can be lights out for a few games and then become Vorobyev when reality sets in. Face it. This is not a team on paper that should make a playoff run. They could have made the team a little better in free agency, plugging the biggest holes, but they didn't. And the trades they should make would send the loudest fans running around, squealing like pigs. So status quo it is.

It's more like J35Bacher "lets see what fantasy trade I can pull out of my kiester today that I made on NHL 18!"

So lets clarify. I have never stated that the Flyers should not make a trade to make the team better. That always goes without saying. What they shouldn't do is panic and make reactionary trades just due to the current state of the team.

As far as the coaching is concerned. I have said repeatedly that I'm not against a coaching change for the PK but I've also said it's not going to automatically fix the problems.

If you're going to call me out, get your facts straight. You failed in this attempt.
- MJL

Your whole post means nothing man, NHL18 was so last year. NHL19 is out. Get with the times bro

I see MJL's point. Lappy didn't tell Laughton to go completely out of position or Couturier to not have his stick in the lane. It's on the players to execute fundamentals properly.
- Doctor DOOM

No one is saying that it's solely on Ian. You can't fire Laughton or Couturier. You can fire Ian, who's responsible for the PK that has failed tremendously the past two seasons. Maybe the players might respond to a new coach. "Oh wow Ian got fired because I wasn't doing this right, maybe I should concentrate on what I'm doing"

so I have a question for you (or anyone who wants to answer). What do you want to see happen? play more young players, bring in veterans instead of young players, continue to replace older veterans little at a time, something else?
- nastyflyergirl

There are some very obvious coaching changes that should be made. Whether this collection of coaches is capable of making these changes (3+ years is enough of a sample size to prove that they are not) is doubtful and not likely.

No, I am not taking the players off the hook.

Yes, I am very much in favor of trying something, anything, different to try to change things.

Sometimes, a fresh voice and a fresh outlook can change things. I'd very much like to see the franchise go down that path. Because the path they are on right now is not working.

Lyon

what is it , Execute
- ClaudeFather

No. It's apathy.

I see MJL's point. Lappy didn't tell Laughton to go completely out of position or Couturier to not have his stick in the lane. It's on the players to execute fundamentals properly.
- Doctor DOOM

Yea past 3-5 years all execution, nothing to do with same coach. Got it, thanks for coming out.

The issues plaguing the Flyers that I'm talking about are not about motivation and reaching down to get just a little more. It's executing basic fundamentals that good teams and every NHL player should be able to do.
- MJL

So it goes back to coaching? what is it with you?
Fundamentals come from coaching.

Let's play a game.

Hypothetically the Flyers fix their outstanding problems of need.

Problem 1 - Obviously Weal is an issue, otherwise no would feel a 3C is a need. So the Flyers remove Weal and add a 3C (your choice use your imagination). FIXED

Problem 2 - Goaltending. Neuvirth magically disappears and Flyers get a reasonable starter (again use your imagination). Elliott and/or Lyon becomes backup. FIXED

Does this team win...wait let me rephrase that. Does this team show up every night for a possible win?

Now what are the Flyers weaknesses?

Look at the NFL. The Cardinals started their season not being able to score. Their star running back wasn't performing, their quarterback (bradford) was playing like poop. So what do they do? They fired their offensive coordinator. They needed to make a change, so they fired the coach responsible for their lack of scoring.

Same should go with the Flyers regarding Ian.

HB Posters: We need to make a trade to get better.
MJL: that would be a panic move


HB Posters: Ok then lets get a new voice to see if we can right this ship.
MJL: Firing the coach isn't going to be the magic fix. The players should get the blame

HB Posters:
- J35Bacher

And that is why reading these boards has become a chore. Not sure why I punish myself like this.

Yea past 3-5 years all execution, nothing to do with same coach. Got it, thanks for coming out.
- ClaudeFather

You're welcome. I was just saying I understood the point he was making. I would like to see a new PK coach.

If the Flyers lose the next 3 and Hakstol is still the coach would you be disappointed with Hextall's decision to keep him on or would you rather them keep Hak and go the trade route? What do you think would inspire better results for the team in the future?

If they are on a 6 game losing streak after this week and Hak is still the coach of this team, Hextall is failing to do his job.

Let's play a game.

Hypothetically the Flyers fix their outstanding problems of need.

Problem 1 - Obviously Weal is an issue, otherwise no would feel a 3C is a need. So the Flyers remove Weal and add a 3C (your choice use your imagination). FIXED

Problem 2 - Goaltending. Neuvirth magically disappears and Flyers get a reasonable starter (again use your imagination). Elliott and/or Lyon becomes backup. FIXED

Does this team win...wait let me rephrase that. Does this team show up every night for a possible win?

Now what are the Flyers weaknesses?
- Glak18

Add Soderberg and Crawford, and Get Provy to get his groove back and I think this team takes the division.

If Im Rob Blake and you want Doughty, I’m asking for:

Ghost
Konecny
Frost
2019 1st unprotected
- BiggE

There is not a single trade I can think of where I would give up the above and it makes the Flyers a better team short term or long term.

Add Soderberg and Crawford, and Get Provy to get his groove back and I think this team takes the division.
- ClaudeFather

Wasn't asking for specific players, but your answer is yes I assume. Also the assumption that all other players play better is there too?

So what are the weakness now?

So it goes back to coaching? what is it with you?
Fundamentals come from coaching.
- Konalover

If that was true fundamentals would never be a problem because every player has been coached on them. Since they were in Pee-Wee hockey.

Wasn't asking for specific players, but your answer is yes I assume. Also the assumption that all other players play better is there too?

So what are the weakness now?
- Glak18

Coaching. Fix that on top of those, instant cup contenders. Book it.

Wasn't asking for specific players, but your answer is yes I assume. Also the assumption that all other players play better is there too?

So what are the weakness now?
- Glak18

Depth on D is a little young and questionable. Can the young guys up front step up, Patty, Oskar, TK. You'd Hope Soderberg helps the PK and we get a new PK coach!

Then you're not as great of a parent as ShootWarAmps. That dude would feel nothing wrong with beating his kid since, you know, men don't really love their kids. That's how real men roll.
- jmatchett383

LOL I wasnt suggesting beating them. I was beat as a kid. It isnt fun Im just saying parents can and some do that. If your kid is afraid of you they tend to not misbehave. Not saying thats how to parent but that is what happens. I sure as hell hid from my father and step mother when I was over there because I knew what would happen if I franked up