maybe just time to blow everything up. kick ruth, kick sully, sell Letang, Crosby and Malkin. rebuild and hope you get into the playoffs in 3 years.
- martox

This may be the worst idea in the history of Pittsburgh sports.

The odds of Pittsburgh ever landing another player as good as Crosby is practically zero. You've already lucked (or tanked) into 3 of the top-10 all-time players (Lemieux, Crosby, Jagr) and another HHOFer in Malkin, so the team will never be as strong as it is not for at least another 25-30 years minimum. Even above 30, Crosby and Malkin are still legit top-20 (if not lower) players when healthy.

Yeah, if you move them you probably max out at hoping to get into the playoffs. You'll be the new St. Louis Blues, with several good pieces, but nothing to put you over the top. You'll be a perennial playoff team, but you'll never be a top contender again.

Now, this team has serious flaws. The defense, including the entire team, is a (frank)ing trainwreck. The goaltending has been atrocious, at best. The bottom-6 is broken. That being said, having 2 guys like Crosby and Malkin and, when he's on, Letang (see below), can mask a lot of those problems. That's why you don't trade guys like Crosby and Malkin.

Now...Kris Letang. When he's 100% healthy and on, Kris Letang is a bonafide #1 defenseman. However, most of the time for the past handful of years, he hasn't been healthy and om his game consistently enough. Honestly, of the pieces that could bring about a big change, he's the only one that realistically could be dealt. His value will only go down as time goes along. However, if you do trade Letang, you're taking away from an area that is already devoid of depth, so the return would have to include someone that could hopefully grow into a similar role within a few years (thinking a guy like Morissey or Montour). Since promising young d-men are so coveted today, it would take a big piece like Letang to acquire one.

/end ramblings

Were there bright spots from last night's game? Sure, but not enough for me to remain optimistic. But yes, the Metro is pretty weak right now and the Pens have some games at hand.

I know I'm sounding like the sky is falling, but it's time for more than just a few personnel changes. Sully has lost this team.

IMO it's time to move out one or two more key players and bring in Q.
- Rinosaur

What key players would you like to move that are likely to bring a positive return?

What key players would you like to move that will being a positive return?
- jmatchett383

I'd like to pretend I know, but I don't. I've said this a ton, but it's not about upgrading as much as it is the team needing some fresh faces and hunger.

I think the logical choices would be Horn and Maatta. I'm fine with lateral moves, i.e. replacing Horn with Neidereitter, etc...

I wouldn't mind moving DeSmith to ANA for Miller. Maybe Miller, while not only providing some stability, could be who Murray needs as a mentor.

Ideally if Maatta were moved out they'd be replacing him with a solid RD. Likely though it would have to be Horn going for the RD and Maatta going for a mid-tier winger.

Were there bright spots from last night's game? Sure, but not enough for me to remain optimistic. But yes, the Metro is pretty weak right now and the Pens have some games at hand.

I know I'm sounding like the sky is falling, but it's time for more than just a few personnel changes. Sully has lost this team.

IMO it's time to move out one or two more key players and bring in Q.
- Rinosaur

Yeah mostly a great effort. Lots of O pressure at times. Lots of backchecking from forwards. New acuasition looked to be settling and had great night. Brassard looked to be what we wanted when we acquired him.. Yes I know he fanned on a shot and fell in OT but other than that I thought he looked great. They got a point and looked to be the better team for long stretches against the hottest team in the league. Positives.

To me they didn't look one bit lost at all until the 3rd and even then they had their chances in the 3rd.

EDIT: oh and I'd like to add to the positives they did all of it without Crosby and he'll soon be back.

Confidence goes a long way. Sully's first year when the team was down it was clear they had confidence in themselves and could come from behind to get a win. Now even when we have the lead it looks like the team is just waiting for disaster to happen.

Yesterday when we didnt make it 5-1 the team started to give up slowly like they already knew something was gonna happen.

They need to get a couple of wins under their belt and start getting confident again, the problem is, the longer they take the bigger the hole.

Yeah mostly a great effort. Lots of O pressure at times. Lots of backchecking from forwards. New acuasition looked to be settling and had great night. Brassard looked to be what we wanted when we acquired him.. Yes I know he fanned on a shot and fell in OT but other than that I thought he looked great. They got a point and looked to be the better team for long stretches against the hottest team in the league. Positives.

To me they didn't look one bit lost at all until the 3rd and even then they had their chances in the 3rd.
- MattStrat

I'm not worried about Brass. He's shown when healthy he's effective and I'd be all in if the Pens wanted to re-sign him. I rewatched the game since I missed most of it and I just don't think the Pens played well as whole. They got some good chances, yes, but they struggled for the most part.

I remember when Sully first came in even if the Pens gave up a ton of shots, they were keeping teams to the perimeter. Now? Teams are just waltzing through center ice and getting to those HD zones with too much ease.

EDIT: oh and I'd like to add to the positives they did all of it without Crosby and he'll soon be back.
- MattStrat

Crosby being out shouldn't be that profound. Yeah, the bottom six is hurting, but Malkin and Brass are a legit 1-2 punch. This shouldn't be a bottom-barrel-team without Sid; they should still be very competitive.

Crosby being out shouldn't be that profound. Yeah, the bottom six is hurting, but Malkin and Brass are a legit 1-2 punch. This shouldn't be a bottom-barrel-team without Sid; they should still be very competitive.
- Rinosaur

From an outsider, there is a lack of depth in Pittsburgh.

Brassard is not as legit as you are saying IMO. He is a good defensive center, but shouldn't be relied on to be a top 6.

Being a constant cup contender and trading futures for rentals will eventually catch up to a team.

The core of this team is all 30+

It may being coming close to rebuild, but i don't think its quite there yet.

That said.
They will never trade Crosby or Malkin, so I am not saying that.

Its the same thing with Chicago, LA, and Detroit.

Being good for this long and constantly going for it, catches up.

I'd like to pretend I know, but I don't. I've said this a ton, but it's not about upgrading as much as it is the team needing some fresh faces and hunger.

I think the logical choices would be Horn and Maatta. I'm fine with lateral moves, i.e. replacing Horn with Neidereitter, etc...

I wouldn't mind moving DeSmith to ANA for Miller. Maybe Miller, while not only providing some stability, could be who Murray needs as a mentor.

Ideally if Maatta were moved out they'd be replacing him with a solid RD. Likely though it would have to be Horn going for the RD and Maatta going for a mid-tier winger.
- Rinosaur

But why would any team do that? If the average fan can see that Horn/Maata/DeSmith aren't cutting it, what GM is going to give you any value whatsoever? If you want to move out a 31-year-old who's nothing buy a PP specialist signed until age 35, and you want a RD in return, you're likely getting a 5/6 D, maybe a low 4D. Maata could probably bring a decent forward return (mid-6 winger, bottom-6 center) by himself. I don't see DeSmith having any value for more than spare parts/draft picks.

Although I don't agree with his take on a lot of things, RW is right that the cupboard is bare and has been misused. Unless you're willing to part with some core pieces, and I'm talking players like Guentzel, Letang, and Kessel, I don't think the return will have much of an effect.

From an outsider, there is a lack of depth in Pittsburgh.

Brassard is not as legit as you are saying IMO. He is a good defensive center, but shouldn't be relied on to be a top 6.

Being a constant cup contender and trading futures for rentals will eventually catch up to a team.

The core of this team is all 30+

It may being coming close to rebuild, but i don't think its quite there yet.

That said.
They will never trade Crosby or Malkin, so I am not saying that.

Its the same thing with Chicago, LA, and Detroit.

Being good for this long and constantly going for it, catches up.
- ImThatGuy

This. And most team would love to suffer for a few years with 3 Cups in 8 years in their pocket.

But why would any team do that? If the average fan can see that Horn/Maata/DeSmith aren't cutting it, what GM is going to give you any value whatsoever? If you want to move out a 31-year-old who's nothing buy a PP specialist signed until age 35, and you want a RD in return, you're likely getting a 5/6 D, maybe a low 4D. Maata could probably bring a decent forward return (mid-6 winger, bottom-6 center) by himself. I don't see DeSmith having any value for more than spare parts/draft picks.

Although I don't agree with his take on a lot of things, RW is right that the cupboard is bare and has been misused. Unless you're willing to part with some core pieces, and I'm talking players like Guentzel, Letang, and Kessel, I don't think the return will have much of an effect.
- jmatchett383

For other players needing a change of scenery.

This. And most team would love to suffer for a few years with 3 Cups in 8 years in their pocket.
- jmatchett383

Agreed. I hope Buffalo has that problem in 10 years.
Hell, I just want one.
I've been in sports suckitude for 15 years now with the Bills and Sabres.

For other players needing a change of scenery.
- Rinosaur

IMO, The Pens better off dumping what you can at the deadline for futures and try to restock the cupboard.

For other players needing a change of scenery.
- Rinosaur

I don't think the Pens should be making moves for the sake of making moves, personally. Not that I don't think they should stand pat, but I think that moves like the Reaves acquisition, the JMFJ signing, and the Sheary trade have put them into a spin they may not be able to pull out of. I think that any trade they make will close one hole to open another one.

I'm not worried about Brass. He's shown when healthy he's effective and I'd be all in if the Pens wanted to re-sign him. I rewatched the game since I missed most of it and I just don't think the Pens played well as whole. They got some good chances, yes, but they struggled for the most part.

I remember when Sully first came in even if the Pens gave up a ton of shots, they were keeping teams to the perimeter. Now? Teams are just waltzing through center ice and getting to those HD zones with too much ease.
- Rinosaur

Things went south in the 3rd but for the first 35 mins they were the better IMO. Check out the fancy charts, graphs n sh!t.

https://www.naturalstattr...9&game=20310&view=limited

IMO, The Pens better off dumping what you can at the deadline for futures and try to restock the cupboard.
- ImThatGuy

If you're going to restock, you're wasting some of the last great years of Crosby and Malkin.

I don't have the solution, but if they want to keep winning around Crosby and Malkin, they can't wait 3-4 years.

If you're going to restock, you're wasting some of the last great years of Crosby and Malkin.

I don't have the solution, but if they want to keep winning around Crosby and Malkin, they can't wait 3-4 years.
- jmatchett383

As someone already alluded to, there's a major confidence factor here. They will get it back and the fans will follow.

Agreed. I hope Buffalo has that problem in 10 years.
Hell, I just want one.
I've been in sports suckitude for 15 years now with the Bills and Sabres.
- ImThatGuy

The Swords were inevitability going to be sharp again some day, just like the Leafs. Seems that day has arrived.

As someone already alluded to, there's a major confidence factor here. They will get it back and the fans will follow.
- MattStrat

Do you not remember the timeframe from 1996-2005?

If you're going to restock, you're wasting some of the last great years of Crosby and Malkin.

I don't have the solution, but if they want to keep winning around Crosby and Malkin, they can't wait 3-4 years.
- jmatchett383

Malkin and Crosby are 32 and 31 yrs old. I give it 3 years including this one where they can make a run after run. After that, they will still be good players but need a lot of youth around them.

I forgot Brassard is 31...Im gonna go with a No to resign him as a 3C at $6+mil which someone will offer.

Malkin and Crosby are 32 and 31 yrs old. I give it 3 years including this one where they can make a run after run. After that, they will still be good players but need a lot of youth around them.

I forgot Brassard is 31...Im gonna go with a No to resign him as a 3C at $6+mil which someone will offer.
- sammy87

Why do you need youth around them? You need talent, not youth.

Hell, if that's the case, I'm sure the Flyers will gladly trade them a bunch of C- prospects that are under 22 years old for Kessel and Rust. I mean, those guys will still be young in 3-years, but they most likely won't be any good at the NHL level. But youth.

Why do you need youth around them? You need talent, not youth.

Hell, if that's the case, I'm sure the Flyers will gladly trade them a bunch of C- prospects that are under 22 years old for Kessel and Rust. I mean, those guys will still be young in 3-years, but they most likely won't be any good at the NHL level. But youth.
- jmatchett383

Talent yes....but they tried a bunch of 30+ yr olds a few yrs ago and it didnt workout too well. They had talent, but the result was not good.

Do you not remember the timeframe from 1996-2005?
- jmatchett383

Haha I do. Ive been an unwavering Since 1989.

I meant the fans around these boards. As a Canadian I dont have a lot of other Pens fans around, there's a few, but this is a Habs, Leafs and Bruins city where I am. Also, I dont pay attention to Facebook Pens fans, they're insane and/or insanely stupid.

So my fellow fans around here are the ones I appreciate the most.

Talent yes....but they tried a bunch of 30+ yr olds a few yrs ago and it didnt workout too well. They had talent, but the result was not good.
- sammy87

You mean when they traded youth and picks and brought in vets like Kessel, Hornqvist, Cullen, Daley, and Lovejoy and won back-to-back Cups?

Well...a few boxes have been checked on a lot of our wish lists:

1) Cullen has been removed for a long time, perhaps for good and

2) GMJR made a trade making team younger and a little bit more talented.


What else we need to see here?

For me a a little shake up in the D like the Hags/Pearson deal would be good.

I hate to say it but a coaching change would probably kick their a$$es right into gear and wake them up. Ive said it a few times now and I'll say it again, when this team is playing at a top notch battle level, they are very hard to beat. Can go toe to toe with any team.