Hextall's a better man than me. He is. Because I'd have fired and traded my way to a PK that isn't the abomination that it is

I sit there sometimes and watch it, and then I watch other teams-- not even the best teams on the kill, even just average ones -- and you just wonder HTF nobody's gotten fired or traded to address this
- AllInForFlyers

Off topic here slightly but more with watching other teams. Who in the east do you see as for real and who is currently out kicking the coverage and due to regress? Montreal? Islanders?

One way to fix the PK would be to not take penalties. The worst part is how dumb the penalties are.

1st PPG was because of a careless wack of the puck in mid air. Not sure what Laughton was thinking there. You are in your own zone, put it on the ice or wack it to the corner with your glove.

2nd PPG was off a clear interference by Konecny. Announcers say they take that Penalty every time but they are wrong. You dont. That is a dumb penalty to take especially when your PK is garbage.

3rd PPG was Giroux's slash which I personally didnt see. It looked like a stick lift to me. If he did slash him again thats a stupid thing to do on the PK

You cant be taking unnecessary penalties if you arent capable of killing it off plain and simple.

One way to fix the PK would be to not take penalties. The worst part is how dumb the penalties are.

1st PPG was because of a careless wack of the puck in mid air. Not sure what Laughton was thinking there. You are in your own zone, put it on the ice or wack it to the corner with your glove.

2nd PPG was off a clear interference by Konecny. Announcers say they take that Penalty every time but they are wrong. You dont. That is a dumb penalty to take especially when your PK is garbage.

3rd PPG was Giroux's slash which I personally didnt see. It looked like a stick lift to me. If he did slash him again thats a stupid thing to do on the PK

You cant be taking unnecessary penalties if you arent capable of killing it off plain and simple.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

I agree that the TK penalty was a horrible one to take but any way you cut it the PK needs to vasrly improve and both the players and the coaches have been given far more than enough time to figure it out.

Off topic here slightly but more with watching other teams. Who in the east do you see as for real and who is currently out kicking the coverage and due to regress? Montreal? Islanders?
- stayinthefnnet

I see Detroit, Rangers, Ottawa and Montreal dropping for sure. Hard to say with the Rest. Isles look like a team that will make the playoffs but they tend to do the same thing every year and fizzle out in the 2nd half. Philly and Carolina, Pittsburgh and NJ are really just up in the air.

I definitely think Aho is the real deal and predict he will out score Seguin this season. Dunno about the rest of the team especially Darling. They need him to continue playing well. All these teams are having goaltender inconsistencies right now.

They could maybe outscore the goaltending, believe it or not -- everyone is getting strafed this year, at some points. It's not always pretty and obviously Elliott needs to be healthy, but if I had a gun to my head, I'd say the goaltending is slightly below average. Not ideal, but not so bad that a team with their overall talent couldn't fake it and make it

- AllInForFlyers

Worst save percentage in the league at 88.5%, yeah that's slightly below average.

Off topic here slightly but more with watching other teams. Who in the east do you see as for real and who is currently out kicking the coverage and due to regress? Montreal? Islanders?
- stayinthefnnet

Hey! What's up, man?

First of all, I have to acknowledge the obvious: The league is REALLY CLOSE. The margin of error between 6th and 13th is simply not that large.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the Rags and Montreal are overperforming a bit -- but not necessarily the Islanders.

Even without Tavares, I thought they were gonna score -- scoring wasn't their problem last year, with or without him. I didn't love their FA signings, but Trotz was a good get. If he could tighten them up, which he has, they're going to be around it all year. Greiss and Lehner are good enough to get them there

Montreal's funky -- Julien has those boys playing hard. They'll outwork you and they're maybe top 5 in team speed. Price has been leaky, though. I don't think their defense holds up after 82, even when Weber returns. Just not enough overall talent back there.

Of the teams currently out of the playoffs as of today, if Luongo stays healthy for the rest of the season and plays enough games, the Panthers make the playoffs.

Your Pens...well, you watch them. They have some problems. They're not playing as hard as they have in years past. Can't tell if they've tuned out Sullivan, or if the loss of Schultz has too many guys playing too much on defense. But when you combine that with weak goaltending like they've been getting much of the time, Rutherford was right to start dealing. They just might miss, as crazy as it sounds -- they don't play hard enough, fast enough, consistently enough to make you think they're gonna all of a sudden turn it on if they fall too far back

Worst save percentage in the league at 88.5%, yeah that's slightly below average.
- Doctor DOOM

I don't dispute that, but it's not quite that simple. I can't/won't argue the raw numbers -- it is what it is. But take today. Pickard's GAA and SVPCT are gonna be horrific. But of the 6 that went in, man, what was he gonna stop where you said, "Holy Hell. That guy's gotta go." Yeah, you always want more saves and there were maybe two I wish could've happened, but man.

Even the game winner in OT. I mean, my gosh. Simmonds was working hard, I don't dispute that, but he literally let Cirelli get on the inside and walk out to the front of the net, with Cirelli firing a seed from, what, 8 feet?

What's Pickard supposed to do there?

I don't dispute that, but it's not quite that simple. I can't/won't argue the raw numbers -- it is what it is. But take today. Pickard's GAA and SVPCT are gonna be horrific. But of the 6 that went in, man, what was he gonna stop where you said, "Holy Hell. That guy's gotta go." Yeah, you always want more saves and there were maybe two I wish could've happened, but man.

Even the game winner in OT. I mean, my gosh. Simmonds was working hard, I don't dispute that, but he literally let Cirelli get on the inside and walk out to the front of the net, with Cirelli firing a seed from, what, 8 feet?

What's Pickard supposed to do there?
- AllInForFlyers

One would argue thats when he needs to come up with a clutch save but yea. The 2nd goal was his fault though. Regardless of the other mistakes on the play, he should have had the short side covered.

One way to fix the PK would be to not take penalties. The worst part is how dumb the penalties are.

1st PPG was because of a careless wack of the puck in mid air. Not sure what Laughton was thinking there. You are in your own zone, put it on the ice or wack it to the corner with your glove.

2nd PPG was off a clear interference by Konecny. Announcers say they take that Penalty every time but they are wrong. You dont. That is a dumb penalty to take especially when your PK is garbage.

3rd PPG was Giroux's slash which I personally didnt see. It looked like a stick lift to me. If he did slash him again thats a stupid thing to do on the PK

You cant be taking unnecessary penalties if you arent capable of killing it off plain and simple.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Agree with that, totally

The problem is that any penalty on this team is an existential threat to wind up as a goal. I don't always track team stats that closely at this point of the season, but I honestly can't recall a team being below 70 percent this deep into the season. I'm not saying it hasn't happened -- hell, Ottawa is even worse -- but even in a league year where scoring feels up, they've been horrific

One would argue thats when he needs to come up with a clutch save but yea. The 2nd goal was his fault though. Regardless of the other mistakes on the play, he should have had the short side covered.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Fair enough -- I don't disagree with that. You never want to see short side go in, and I don't want to pretend that I loved that one

I don't dispute that, but it's not quite that simple. I can't/won't argue the raw numbers -- it is what it is. But take today. Pickard's GAA and SVPCT are gonna be horrific. But of the 6 that went in, man, what was he gonna stop where you said, "Holy Hell. That guy's gotta go." Yeah, you always want more saves and there were maybe two I wish could've happened, but man.

Even the game winner in OT. I mean, my gosh. Simmonds was working hard, I don't dispute that, but he literally let Cirelli get on the inside and walk out to the front of the net, with Cirelli firing a seed from, what, 8 feet?

What's Pickard supposed to do there?
- AllInForFlyers

The defense is leaving the goalie out to dry but we're also not getting the crucial saves that can turn a game around.

To Pickard's credit he's an AHL goalie playing against one of the best teams in the league.

I don't know why but it seems like opposing players can just walk right in front and have their way with this team.

The defense is leaving the goalie out to dry but we're also not getting the crucial saves that can turn a game around.

To Pickard's credit he's an AHL goalie playing against one of the best teams in the league.

I don't know why but it seems like opposing players can just walk right in front and have their way with this team.
- Doctor DOOM

That's pretty much why I said what I did -- trust me, I'm not whistling past the graveyard. I know what the Flyers have in net isn't optimal.

But they really could outscore the overall weakness. Elliott does enough for them to win, and Pickard, etc., are enough to not lose you the playoff spot outright

They had a tough week with Luongo and Kinkaid, but they really can score enough. They should've had three, maybe four, on Luongo the other night, and the Panthers don't give up much when he's in net

I see Detroit, Rangers, Ottawa and Montreal dropping for sure. Hard to say with the Rest. Isles look like a team that will make the playoffs but they tend to do the same thing every year and fizzle out in the 2nd half. Philly and Carolina, Pittsburgh and NJ are really just up in the air.

I definitely think Aho is the real deal and predict he will out score Seguin this season. Dunno about the rest of the team especially Darling. They need him to continue playing well. All these teams are having goaltender inconsistencies right now.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Yeah you obviously can’t look past anyone but I agree that Detroit and Ottawa are likely bottom tier. I agree on Carolina for sure. They have some absolute pieces. Aho among them

tough but fair
- Mordecai

No backsies when you discover later that Point is just two dwarves stacked on top of the other.

Hey! What's up, man?

First of all, I have to acknowledge the obvious: The league is REALLY CLOSE. The margin of error between 6th and 13th is simply not that large.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the Rags and Montreal are overperforming a bit -- but not necessarily the Islanders.

Even without Tavares, I thought they were gonna score -- scoring wasn't their problem last year, with or without him. I didn't love their FA signings, but Trotz was a good get. If he could tighten them up, which he has, they're going to be around it all year. Greiss and Lehner are good enough to get them there

Montreal's funky -- Julien has those boys playing hard. They'll outwork you and they're maybe top 5 in team speed. Price has been leaky, though. I don't think their defense holds up after 82, even when Weber returns. Just not enough overall talent back there.

Of the teams currently out of the playoffs as of today, if Luongo stays healthy for the rest of the season and plays enough games, the Panthers make the playoffs.

Your Pens...well, you watch them. They have some problems. They're not playing as hard as they have in years past. Can't tell if they've tuned out Sullivan, or if the loss of Schultz has too many guys playing too much on defense. But when you combine that with weak goaltending like they've been getting much of the time, Rutherford was right to start dealing. They just might miss, as crazy as it sounds -- they don't play hard enough, fast enough, consistently enough to make you think they're gonna all of a sudden turn it on if they fall too far back
- AllInForFlyers

You summed the pens up perfectly. It’s all of those things. Effort isn’t consistently there enough and every team is just too close to coast. Talent wise they have a lot of holes as well, which only further ups the need for consistent effort.

Montreal is right on the opposite end of the spectrum. I keep expecting the fall to come. They seriously lack talent top to bottom, but they out skate and out work everyone.

Yeah you obviously can’t look past anyone but I agree that Detroit and Ottawa are likely bottom tier. I agree on Carolina for sure. They have some absolute pieces. Aho among them
- stayinthefnnet

Something about Carolina's not right though -- it's the goaltending, really, and they probably do need another piece up front. Doesn't have to be William Nylander, but they might need one more

You watch them some nights and you'd say that they're Top 8 for sure

But that goaltending is soft enough at ES where you wonder. It shouldn't be, but they smell like a team where every single metric is gonna look amazing, the numbers are gonna be there, but because they don't get enough saves at ES, they miss

That's the biggest reason why I still think -- repeat, think -- the Flyers have the ability to do something. I don't know the raw numbers off the top of my head, but I don't think ES goals against is killing them

Something about Carolina's not right though -- it's the goaltending, really, and they probably do need another piece up front. Doesn't have to be William Nylander, but they might need one more

You watch them some nights and you'd say that they're Top 8 for sure

But that goaltending is soft enough at ES where you wonder. It shouldn't be, but they smell like a team where every single metric is gonna look amazing, the numbers are gonna be there, but because they don't get enough saves at ES, they miss

That's the biggest reason why I still think -- repeat, think -- the Flyers have the ability to do something. I don't know the raw numbers off the top of my head, but I don't think ES goals against is killing them
- AllInForFlyers

The Flyers have been a solid ES team for most of the season but they keep having games where individual errors leak back in. The PK is another story. They have an occasional game where the kill well but most of the season it's been abysmal. It's a huge road block for them.

Something about Carolina's not right though -- it's the goaltending, really, and they probably do need another piece up front. Doesn't have to be William Nylander, but they might need one more

You watch them some nights and you'd say that they're Top 8 for sure

But that goaltending is soft enough at ES where you wonder. It shouldn't be, but they smell like a team where every single metric is gonna look amazing, the numbers are gonna be there, but because they don't get enough saves at ES, they miss

That's the biggest reason why I still think -- repeat, think -- the Flyers have the ability to do something. I don't know the raw numbers off the top of my head, but I don't think ES goals against is killing them
- AllInForFlyers

The notion of the flyers making the playoffs isn’t something that should be viewed as out of the question. You know they will have a run in them at some point where they reel off eight wins in ten games or something to that effect.

You summed the pens up perfectly. It’s all of those things. Effort isn’t consistently there enough and every team is just too close to coast. Talent wise they have a lot of holes as well, which only further ups the need for consistent effort.

Montreal is right on the opposite end of the spectrum. I keep expecting the fall to come. They seriously lack talent top to bottom, but they out skate and out work everyone.
- stayinthefnnet

I have watched them maybe seven or eight times this year, including all three games of the Western trip where they dominated.

They might just be at the stage where age and mileage means they simply cannot sustain it for 82. You know? It was gonna happen eventually, where if Crosby doesn't drive his line every night, you might see the cracks that he hid

Schultz being out really hurts them, though -- he's not the world's best defenseman. But he really fits what they do and need, and you can tell he's not there

I haven't watched Carolina much but they have the fewest shots against in the league.

I haven't watched Carolina much but they have the fewest shots against in the league.
- Doctor DOOM

See, that's exactly what they smell like. You watch them, and you see the work rate, the possession, the skill level. But because they aren't getting enough saves, they turn wins into OTL and games where they should get a point into regulation losses

That goaltending is just good enough for them to miss

I have watched them maybe seven or eight times this year, including all three games of the Western trip where they dominated.

They might just be at the stage where age and mileage means they simply cannot sustain it for 82. You know? It was gonna happen eventually, where if Crosby doesn't drive his line every night, you might see the cracks that he hid

Schultz being out really hurts them, though -- he's not the world's best defenseman. But he really fits what they do and need, and you can tell he's not there
- AllInForFlyers

Schultz being out is an absolute killer. He’s not a perfect player but he’s good at what he does and they have no one of the same cloth to replace him.

Murray is a dumpster fire. There’s no depth scoring whatsoever. Coach sticking with his certain pets as well. Physically Malkin and Crosby can still do it night in and out, but mentally they don’t. They’re just simply not an overly talented roster to get by with C plus effort and attention to detail that they typically bring. Tonight being a supreme case study of that.

The Flyers have been a solid ES team for most of the season but they keep having games where individual errors leak back in. The PK is another story. They have an occasional game where the kill well but most of the season it's been abysmal. It's a huge road block for them.
- MJL

That's what I would have guessed for the Flyers, at ES. Without having the raw data in front of me -- and I know people won't necessarily believe this -- but if you watch the rest of the league at ES and the Flyers at ES, you don't see this huge gap between them and all but the highest tier of teams who kill it at evens

The Flyers' team speed is pretty good -- not great, but better than even last year. It doesn't necessarily hurt them, wouldn't hurt them in the playoffs if they make it

The PP had a rough stretch, but with JVR back, it's gonna score enough

That damn PK, though. Man. It is hard to overstate the level of horrific we are witnessing

See, that's exactly what they smell like. You watch them, and you see the work rate, the possession, the skill level. But because they aren't getting enough saves, they turn wins into OTL and games where they should get a point into regulation losses

That goaltending is just good enough for them to miss
- AllInForFlyers

I know they have their own internal budgetary requirements, but them going after panarin hard would be huge for them.

Schultz being out is an absolute killer. He’s not a perfect player but he’s good at what he does and they have no one of the same cloth to replace him.

Murray is a dumpster fire. There’s no depth scoring whatsoever. Coach sticking with his certain pets as well. Physically Malkin and Crosby can still do it night in and out, but mentally they don’t. They’re just simply not an overly talented roster to get by with C plus effort and attention to detail that they typically bring. Tonight being a supreme case study of that.
- stayinthefnnet

You touched on something there -- when Crosby has been into it, like he was out west, they look totally different. I think Malkin has been more consistent, maybe not every single night, but more frequently

Crosby's got a lot of miles on him, though. He might be at the age where you gotta give him someone on his line to do some of that heavy lifting defensively. Look at how Giroux responded with Couturier.

Obviously, I'm not saying that Crosby needs to move to wing. I don't believe that. Two different players. But Crosby maybe can't be the hardest working guy on that line in all three zones every single night, anymore