The Leafs have the 7th most shots against in the league. You don't think bringing in a top pairing d-man who can gobble up 22-25 mins a game would significantly help addressing that?
- mjones242

Leafs can absolutely benefit from depth and improvement through addition on the blue line. My point was that they arent desperate for it and they arent the horrid mess defensively so many make them out to be.

In addition the Leafs play with the lead so often the other team get the shots because theyre in a more desperate position to score to win while the Leafs focus is more on defending and shutting down at that point.

Actually Leafs are 9th. One behind Tampa who has better d and a stud dman and ahead of the Jets who have better d and arguably a stud dman. Both are said to be better defensively than the Leafs. .....so yea...lets not read too much in shot counts. Leafs are average in shots for yet among the best at scoring. Does that suggest a struggling and weak offense thats running on luck?

Any number of things?

The question is whether Willie's style of play translates in a much more grinding, defensive-minded playoff mindset against much tougher competition.

I'm not as confident that "moar" possession is what Willie will bring when we need it most.

Much rather have a top pairing d-man who can drive possession and effectively shutdown the other team's top line.
- mjones242

I think every coach, scout and manager would prefer a 1RD to a 1RW. So why would a team want to trade one of these 1RDs away?

I think every coach, scout and manager would prefer a 1RD to a 1RW. So why would a team want to trade one of these 1RDs away?
- BetterCallSaul

Because the team with the 1RW would add other pieces to make the deal more attractive?

Also, there may be teams that have multiple potential RHDs who could slot into 1RHD for the Leafs (Winnipeg, Minnesota, Anaheim, maaaaybe Carolina).

We dont need to stop Tom Wilson. We need to be a better team than the Caps and out score them. The book is out on Wilson. He'll either get suspensed or sit in the box...

Id like to know how the Caps are going to stop 3 solid scoring lines we throw out, not who wins fights or hitting contests. Sharks tried to tough guy Kadri all game the other night. How far did that get them?
- systemtool

We need for Anderson not to crap the bed in 3 out of 7 games like last year. If Anderson played against Washington they was he has this year they would have beat the Caps in 5 or 6 games tops. He was bad in 3 games including the 3 period of game 7.

We need for Anderson not to crap the bed in 3 out of 7 games like last year. If Anderson played against Washington the way he has this year they would have beat the Caps in 5 or 6 games tops. He was bad in 3 games including the 3 period of game 7.
- TOGENIUS

Leafs can absolutely benefit from depth and improvement through addition on the blue line. My point was that they arent desperate for it and they arent the horrid mess defensively so many make them out to be.

In addition the Leafs play with the lead so often the other team get the shots because theyre in a more desperate position to score to win while the Leafs focus is more on defending and shutting down at that point.

Actually Leafs are 9th. One behind Tampa who has better d and a stud dman and ahead of the Jets who have better d and arguably a stud dman. Both are said to be better defensively than the Leafs. .....so yea...lets not read too much in shot counts. Leafs are average in shots for yet among the best at scoring. Does that suggest a struggling and weak offense thats running on luck?
- systemtool

I have never suggested the Leafs are a "horrid mess defensively". I think they're mediocre at best but have benefited from an exceptional offense and stellar goaltending.

I have never suggested the Leafs are desperate for a top RHD-man. I think a top RHD-man would be more valuable on this team than Bill Ny.

Sure, the Leafs are 9th in terms of shots against per game. My bad. Then again, the last team to win a Cup while being in the bottom 9(!) in shots against was Boston in 10/11. Which appears to be a statistical anomaly.

Tampa's defense is horribly overrated. Hedman may be the best D-man in the league but they suck defensively.

Winnipeg's D sure looks great on paper but I think they're a bit of a mess and have never quite dominated the way one would expect.

I don't buy the argument that teams that have early leads are often out shot and perform in the bottom 9 in the league shots against. Admittedly, I could be wrong - anecdotally it appears that way, but that's only because I watch a lot of Leafs games. Not sure if the stats back your argument up though but maybe they do and I'm putting way too much stock in SA.

It's Sunday, I'm bored, I'm really not that committed to this argument.

The Leafs have the 7th most shots against in the league. You don't think bringing in a top pairing d-man who can gobble up 22-25 mins a game would significantly help addressing that?
- mjones242

Not really.

Not with their style, plus shot numbers don't really mean anything on their own. Look at high danger scoring opportunities against.

Not really.

Not with their style, plus shot numbers don't really mean anything on their own. Look at high danger scoring opportunities against.
- gravyface

Yep. Babcock said it himself that shot totals are a huge concern. More so the high danger opportunities.

We should be talking about what the Leafs really need - a backup goalie. Sparks just isn't cutting it at the NHL level.

We should be talking about what the Leafs really need - a backup goalie. Sparks just isn't cutting it at the NHL level.
- TrashPanda

Ian Scott

Nice dive, Barzal.

Ian Scott
- Arctic_AARDVARK

There's never enough goal scoring!

The Leafs have the 7th most shots against in the league. You don't think bringing in a top pairing d-man who can gobble up 22-25 mins a game would significantly help addressing that?
- mjones242

They also are defending leads a lot

Will be better for Leafs to dedicate salary to D and re-sign Gardiner (5.75m-6.25m/6 years?) instead of giving Willy N. the 6.5-7million.
Trade Nylander and bring back (as part of the deal) a young top6 winger that still has 2 years on his current contract (under 2-3million) and Leafs can give that guy Nylander money after Marleau retires (or gets a new 1y contract @3million).

I have never been a big fan of Gardiner, basically since he was used as a top2 D-man with too much ice-time. How Babcock is using him now though is really perfect for the team (and I think for Gardiner) - even if he is not getting alot of points.

I would think Leafs are better of with Gardiner on the team next year than without him; in particular since after Rielly-Zaitsev-Dermott they don't have any top4 D-man depth.

Hyman - Tavares - Marner
new LW - Matthews - Kapanen
Marleau - Kadri - Brown
Lindholm - Gauthier - Leivo
press box: Grundstrom & Johnsson

Rielly - Dermott
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Borgman - 6D
Liljegren

Freddy
New backup

Not sure which young top6 LW with a good contract of 2 more years could be had in exchange for Nylander. (I still think Leafs should target Keller).

Will be better for Leafs to dedicate salary to D and re-sign Gardiner (5.75m-6.25m/6 years?) instead of giving Willy N. the 6.5-7million.
Trade Nylander and bring back (as part of the deal) a young top6 winger that still has 2 years on his current contract (under 2-3million) and Leafs can give that guy Nylander money after Marleau retires (or gets a new 1y contract @3million).

I have never been a big fan of Gardiner, basically since he was used as a top2 D-man with too much ice-time. How Babcock is using him now though is really perfect for the team (and I think for Gardiner) - even if he is not getting alot of points.

I would think Leafs are better of with Gardiner on the team next year than without him; in particular since after Rielly-Zaitsev-Dermott they don't have any top4 D-man depth.

Hyman - Tavares - Marner
new LW - Matthews - Kapanen
Marleau - Kadri - Brown
Lindholm - Gauthier - Leivo
press box: Grundstrom & Johnsson

Rielly - Dermott
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Borgman - 6D
Liljegren

Freddy
New backup

Not sure which young top6 LW with a good contract of 2 more years could be had in exchange for Nylander. (I still think Leafs should target Keller).
- plantheparade

Two things. Yes to Gardiner, Dubas and Babs both love Gards....only way he is gone is if he just wants to get paid and doesn’t give two (frank)s what team he is on.

And about your second point. Not a lot of teams want to trade away players that are as good as Nylander but cheaper....

It’s like someone saying “the Sens should target Marner. Let’s just trade them Stone because Marner will be cheaper for this year and is further from UFA. The Leafs will do this.”

Two things. Yes to Gardiner, Dubas and Babs both love Gards....only way he is gone is if he just wants to get paid and doesn’t give two (frank)s what team he is on.

And about your second point. Not a lot of teams want to trade away players that are as good as Nylander but cheaper....

It’s like someone saying “the Sens should target Marner. Let’s just trade them Stone because Marner will be cheaper for this year and is further from UFA. The Leafs will do this.”
- Santo_44

If Toronto adds a 1st round pick 2019, and Arizona a 2nd 2020, that could work for both teams.

If Toronto adds a 1st round pick 2019, and Arizona a 2nd 2020, that could work for both teams.
- plantheparade

No.

Why would Arizona trade away a top end talent that’s going to be cheaper than Nylander for a while and only get to raise like 10 selcections in the draft from it....

You gotta get it in your head that teams don’t want to trade their stars for the sake of trading their stars. There is zero reasoning to trading Keller right now. Zero.

Just like how there is zero reasoning to trading Marner.

Would you trade Marner for Gaudreau? No

What about for Tarasenko? No

Barkov? No

Do the opposing teams make the trade? No

No.

Why would Arizona trade away a top end talent that’s going to be cheaper than Nylander for a while and only get to raise like 10 selcections in the draft from it....

You gotta get it in your head that teams don’t want to trade their stars for the sake of trading their stars. There is zero reasoning to trading Keller right now. Zero.

Just like how there is zero reasoning to trading Marner.

Would you trade Marner for Gaudreau? No

What about for Tarasenko? No

Barkov? No

Do the opposing teams make the trade? No
- Santo_44

Coyotes need a 1st line C.
Nylander could be that guy for them.
Keller is not going to be a C.

If Leafs put in the right + into a Keller for Nylander deal, Chayka could definitely be interested.
With OEL new contract, and Raanta there, Coyotes can't be in rebuild mode forever - have to be back in playoffs sometimes.
Keller's new contract in 2 years will probably be higher than Willie's new contract - for Coyotes the actual money is more of an issue than for Toronto.

Do you know whether Leafs could sign Nylander with a huge signing bonus (let's 4million) and a low base salary first year - pay Nylander the signing bonus and then trade him directly afterwards? That would already make a big difference in the actual $$ to be paid by Coyotes.
(Coyotes don't have a cap problem - Bolland contract coming off the books next season; they have more of an actual salary problem in $$; need to limit that as much as possible).

Coyotes need a 1st line C.
Nylander could be that guy for them.
Keller is not going to be a C.

If Leafs put in the right + into a Keller for Nylander deal, Chayka could definitely be interested.
With OEL new contract, and Raanta there, Coyotes can't be in rebuild mode forever - have to be back in playoffs sometimes.
Keller's new contract in 2 years will probably be higher than Willie's new contract - for Coyotes the actual money is more of an issue than for Toronto.

Do you know whether Leafs could sign Nylander with a huge signing bonus (let's 4million) and a low base salary first year - pay Nylander the signing bonus and then trade him directly afterwards? That would already make a big difference in the actual $$ to be paid by Coyotes.
(Coyotes don't have a cap problem - Bolland contract coming off the books next season; they have more of an actual salary problem in $$; need to limit that as much as possible).
- plantheparade

Teams have never made deals like this.

It’s a trade that only helps the Leafs. You don’t trade stars for another star and scraps for no reason.The plus would have to be a massive overpayment.

Just like how it’s the only way teams will get Marner. Take the blue and white glasses off.

Teams have never made deals like this.

It’s a trade that only helps the Leafs. You don’t trade stars for another star and scraps for no reason.The plus would have to be a massive overpayment.

Just like how it’s the only way teams will get Marner. Take the blue and white glasses off.
- Santo_44

first: Marner is quite a bit better than both Nylander and Keller.

2nd: Nylander and Keller aren't that far off - but Nylander can be a C, and that's what Arizona needs right now.

and Toronto can use it's financial wealth to structure a deal so that Coyotes actually might like that Nylander contract (e.g. huge signing bonus up front which shaves of 4-5 million off of the total contract).

teams have traded good player for good players (e.g. Jones for Johansen)

Coyotes need a 1st line C.
Nylander could be that guy for them.
Keller is not going to be a C.

If Leafs put in the right + into a Keller for Nylander deal, Chayka could definitely be interested.
With OEL new contract, and Raanta there, Coyotes can't be in rebuild mode forever - have to be back in playoffs sometimes.
Keller's new contract in 2 years will probably be higher than Willie's new contract - for Coyotes the actual money is more of an issue than for Toronto.

Do you know whether Leafs could sign Nylander with a huge signing bonus (let's 4million) and a low base salary first year - pay Nylander the signing bonus and then trade him directly afterwards? That would already make a big difference in the actual $$ to be paid by Coyotes.
(Coyotes don't have a cap problem - Bolland contract coming off the books next season; they have more of an actual salary problem in $$; need to limit that as much as possible).
- plantheparade

The issue with this is Nylander hasn't signed yet because there's no assurance he won't be traded, or at least that's been the narrative from the beginning. So I don't see why he would sign a deal to be traded, better to remain unsigned and at least have some say in where you end up.

The issue with this is Nylander hasn't signed yet because there's no assurance he won't be traded, or at least that's been the narrative from the beginning. So I don't see why he would sign a deal to be traded, better to remain unsigned and at least have some say in where you end up.
- BetterCallSaul

the assumption would be that Nylander would be interested in being the #1C in Arizona.. (he and his agent would be part of the discussion)

the assumption would be that Nylander would be interested in being the #1C in Arizona.. (he and his agent would be part of the discussion)
- plantheparade

Yeah, maybe. I don't know him personally, so I can't say.

Imagination is running wild in the minds of the Leafs faithful.

Imagination is running wild in the minds of the Leafs faithful.
- Woderwick

We are restless!