I’m up for trading everyone including carter. Except kopitar and doughty
- KINGS67

Including Toffoli and Quick? What would you want for Toffoli?

Or maybe some of us want to see the Leafs actually win instead of being pretenders and would like them to fix the defense so they can compete with Tampa Bay and win a Cup. Possibly, if done correctly, multiple Cups.


- Unholy_Goalie

Yep good thing Washington fixed their D last year so they could beat Tampa

Or move on from Carter, Brown, Muzzin, Quick, Martinez, Toffoli and keep Doughty and Kopitar
- PatC80

Or just go all the way and trade all of them. Doughty and Kopitar are the biggest assets, they guarantee the biggest return. They also guarantee, by trading them, that you're a lottery team for two or three years. It really accelerates the rebuild. Also, by time you have a bunch of young kids ready to play, Kopitar and Doughty are in their mid to late 30s.

Yep good thing Washington fixed their D last year so they could beat Tampa
- jribout

Good thing we have Ovechkin. Oh wait...

I love how so many people will ignore the long history of Cup winners and try to use Washington and/or Pittsburgh as an example of how to win a Cup. Those teams are the exceptions, not the rule. And even though their defenses would be considered "weaker" relative to those that won Cups before them, they still had better defensive personnel than the Leafs do.

Or just go all the way and trade all of them. Doughty and Kopitar are the biggest assets, they guarantee the biggest return. They also guarantee, by trading them, that you're a lottery team for two or three years. It really accelerates the rebuild. Also, by time you have a bunch of young kids ready to play, Kopitar and Doughty are in their mid to late 30s.
- Unholy_Goalie

Not sure that really flies in a market like LA though.

Not sure that really flies in a market like LA though.
- TrashPanda

It flew for 10-15 years before they drafted Kopitar and Doughty. Kings missed the playoffs many times, for a long time. From 1993/1994 to 2008/2009, the Kings missed the playoffs 11 times, three 1st round exists and one 2nd round exit. Trading away the top guys today makes the rebuild quicker too.

Good thing we have Ovechkin. Oh wait...

I love how so many people will ignore the long history of Cup winners and try to use Washington and/or Pittsburgh as an example of how to win a Cup. Those teams are the exceptions, not the rule. And even though their defenses would be considered "weaker" relative to those that won Cups before them, they still had better defensive personnel than the Leafs do.
- Unholy_Goalie

Yup....back to back cups are a real female dog....stupid Penguins

Good thing we have Ovechkin. Oh wait...

I love how so many people will ignore the long history of Cup winners and try to use Washington and/or Pittsburgh as an example of how to win a Cup. Those teams are the exceptions, not the rule. And even though their defenses would be considered "weaker" relative to those that won Cups before them, they still had better defensive personnel than the Leafs do.
- Unholy_Goalie

I love how one person thinks we cannot beat Tampa without Karlson or Doughty

Yup....back to back cups are a real female dog....stupid Penguins
- RatedR80

Crosby factor.

As a fan of the team with the next true generational player in McDavid, you should be happy. Eventually, he will win your team a Cup by virtue of being an unstoppable force.

That being said, holy (frank) what a failure that Eberle trade turned into.

I love how one person thinks we cannot beat Tampa without Karlson or Doughty
- jribout

Yeah, and *only* one person. He's either a super genius or super stupid.

Since he's been wrong about everything else, I know what I'm going to pick.

Crosby factor.

As a fan of the team with the next true generational player in McDavid, you should be happy. Eventually, he will win your team a Cup by virtue of being an unstoppable force.

That being said, holy (frank) what a failure that Eberle trade turned into.
- Unholy_Goalie

So the fact that we have guys like Matthews, Marner and Tavares mean nothing. We're literally winning through dumb luck.

I love how one person thinks we cannot beat Tampa without Karlson or Doughty
- jribout

Every Norris winner in the past 25 years has won a Cup or gone to the Cup Finals with the exception of Karlsson. Most of them have won Cups. So yeah, having an elite defender works out positively more often than not.

Yeah, and *only* one person. He's either a super genius or super stupid.

Since he's been wrong about everything else, I know what I'm going to pick.
- TrashPanda

It's really not hard to tell which.

Or just go all the way and trade all of them. Doughty and Kopitar are the biggest assets, they guarantee the biggest return. They also guarantee, by trading them, that you're a lottery team for two or three years. It really accelerates the rebuild. Also, by time you have a bunch of young kids ready to play, Kopitar and Doughty are in their mid to late 30s.
- Unholy_Goalie

Even if they do decide to blow it up, they'll need some good veteran players that have experienced everything. Get rid of everyone except Doughty and Kopitar.

Crosby factor.

As a fan of the team with the next true generational player in McDavid, you should be happy. Eventually, he will win your team a Cup by virtue of being an unstoppable force.

That being said, holy (frank) what a failure that Eberle trade turned into.
- Unholy_Goalie

More then Crosby....add Malkin and Murray also Letang and Kessel....Jultz.....one guy doesn’t do it on his own regardless of if he is generational.....we won’t sniff the cup till we get a GM that has even half a clue

So the fact that we have guys like Matthews, Marner and Tavares mean nothing. We're literally winning through dumb luck.
- TrashPanda

It means our offense is great. But the defense still needs work. Andersen is expected to do way too much, too often.

How many years did the Capitals lead the league in goals, win the Presidents Trophy and lose in the 1st round? Ottawa did it. Buffalo did it. St. Louis did it. San Jose did it. Vancouver did it. So many teams would blow the doors off teams offensively and then choke in the playoffs. Do you want the Leafs to be one of those teams? I don't.

Even if they do decide to blow it up, they'll need some good veteran players that have experienced everything. Get rid of everyone except Doughty and Kopitar.
- PatC80

Nah they don't. They'd need 18 warm bodies and an AHL goalie. Doughty and Kopitar would give them the biggest return, the best top prospects, best young rising stars like Nylander etc. It would accelerate their rebuild tremendously.

So the fact that we have guys like Matthews, Marner and Tavares mean nothing. We're literally winning through dumb luck.
- TrashPanda

We have 3 of the top 10 scoring leaders. Our goalie is in the top 5 in many categories. So glad we have dumb luck on our side.

More then Crosby....add Malkin and Murray also Letang and Kessel....Jultz.....one guy doesn’t do it on his own regardless of if he is generational.....we won’t sniff the cup till we get a GM that has even half a clue
- RatedR80

Absolutely, Malkin and Murray played huge roles. Even Fleury and Letang when he was healthy. But having that generational talent is a crucial difference maker in long, tight series.

You guys need, hate to say it, a Brian Burke. Burke was a horrible rebuilding GM but he's a "finisher" like what he did in Anaheim. He took a team primed to win it all and made those final big moves that put them over the edge. You guys have unfortunately wasted a lot of top end assets but still have enough to get the job done if the right guy takes over the team.

You know what would be amazing? If a ref would (frank)ing ban this clown. Even if it's just for one night so we can watch a game in peace.

Is that really too much to ask?

Absolutely, Malkin and Murray played huge roles. Even Fleury and Letang when he was healthy. But having that generational talent is a crucial difference maker in long, tight series.

You guys need, hate to say it, a Brian Burke. Burke was a horrible rebuilding GM but he's a "finisher" like what he did in Anaheim. He took a team primed to win it all and made those final big moves that put them over the edge. You guys have unfortunately wasted a lot of top end assets but still have enough to get the job done if the right guy takes over the team.
- Unholy_Goalie

Burke also had Scott Niedermayer literally fall in his lap.

Every Norris winner in the past 25 years has won a Cup or gone to the Cup Finals with the exception of Karlsson. Most of them have won Cups. So yeah, having an elite defender works out positively more often than not.
- Unholy_Goalie

On average How many elite defenders are there in the nhl at one time?

Burke also had Scott Niedermayer literally fall in his lap.
- PatC80

Yes he did but he also got Pronger. He definitely got lucky with Niedermayer but he didn't sit on his hands either.

On average How many elite defenders are their in the nhl at one time?
- jribout

Not many. Depends on how you define elite.

If there are 31 #1 defenders in the NHL, 10 or 11 are not good, 10-15 are good and 5-10 are elite.

That being said, if you have one, your odds of success are higher. With Nylander as an expendable asset, the Leafs should be hunting one down to round out their team and fill one of the final (and biggest) holes.

Yes he did but he also got Pronger. He definitely got lucky with Niedermayer but he didn't sit on his hands either.
- Unholy_Goalie

Even that, he got lucky. Pronger's wife wanted out of Edmonton. If not for that, I don't think the Oilers would have moved Pronger.