See what I did there?
- jmatchett383

Sure, you can say that about any player on this team over the last 6+ years. Doesn't change the fact that Simmonds should be dealt as he's the one looking for a new deal and logically isn't a fit to extend for 4+ years at a sizeable cap hit...

With what goalie? With what PK?

This team has won exactly one playoff series with Simmonds in the lineup. What ever will they do without him?
- hereticpride

Exactly if Elliott injured his groin he'll be out long term or in and out all season. Either way the goalie situation is dire.

We all know the PK is what it is.

This team is going to need to win games 6-5.

Call me crazy, but I was at the game last night and I thought they played well for the 2 periods I stayed. They hit 4 posts, 2 in succession, in the first 16 minutes. They had the PPG disallowed (I still haven't seen the contact; if it was there, it had no effect on the goal) and Elliott made a number of high-quality saves, especially on the cross-ice pass and the subsequent diving save in the second. Didn't see the third.

Right now, they're not playing poorly per se, but something's just off. I don't know if they're trying to make the perfect play/shot or don't have faith in their team/coach, or what, but there's just something missing right now.
- jmatchett383

Right now I would take someone who plays a nasty game. I do think they lack some of the "fear" pat of the game. I know they don't exactly win you games but I also think they help when you need that push.

But your definitely right. Something is missing.

It would have been panicking to trade one of them in season a few years ago. It's just delaying the inevitable at this point.

I guess you'll get better value for Simmonds at the deadline. Just have to hope he doesn't get hurt between now and then.
- hereticpride

That's why I'd move him now. It's the smart business move.

You have to ask the following questions:

1. Will his value get higher nearer the deadline?
Answer: Perhaps, but it's not a given especially if he gets dinged up or is struggling. His cap hit is low enough that moving him at any point in the season isn't really an issue and, if needed, the Flyers can retain up to 50%

2. Is Simmonds the difference between winning a Cup or not, or even winning a round or not assuming they even get in?
Answer: To the first part unequivocally n, to the second, probably not

3. Is it a smart move to re-sign a 31 year old Wayne Simmonds to a long term deal with a significant cap hit knowing that the team likely won't be ready to contend until he's at least 32, if not 33.
Answer: No

This is why you start exploring deals involving Wayne Simmonds.

Hypothetically. If this is a long term injury...would you just bite the bullet and bring Hart up to pair with Pickard and let him run with it.

I know Lyon and Pickard are more season'd but do they really give you that much more or a stabilizing factor in net?

That's why I'd move him now. It's the smart business move.

You have to ask the following questions:

1. Will his value get higher nearer the deadline?
Answer: Perhaps, but it's not a given especially if he gets dinged up or is struggling. His cap hit is low enough that moving him at any point in the season isn't really an issue and, if needed, the Flyers can retain up to 50%

2. Is Simmonds the difference between winning a Cup or not, or even winning a round or not assuming they even get in?
Answer: To the first part unequivocally n, to the second, probably not

3. Is it a smart move to re-sign a 31 year old Wayne Simmonds to a long term deal with a significant cap hit knowing that the team likely won't be ready to contend until he's at least 32, if not 33.
Answer: No

This is why you start exploring deals involving Wayne Simmonds.
- BiggE

I would also add that if he isn't getting top PP minutes that will also hurt his value.

Hypothetically. If this is a long term injury...would you just bite the bullet and bring Hart up to pair with Pickard and let him run with it.

I know Lyon and Pickard are more season'd but do they really give you that much more or a stabilizing factor in net?
- J35Bacher

Hart is just starting to get into a groove in the AHL. I would not bring him up right now, as painful as it may be.

Like you said, if he's going to give you similar to what Pickard/Lyon will, then I'd rather he just stay in the AHL for now.

Hypothetically. If this is a long term injury...would you just bite the bullet and bring Hart up to pair with Pickard and let him run with it.

I know Lyon and Pickard are more season'd but do they really give you that much more or a stabilizing factor in net?
- J35Bacher

I'm sketchy on bringing Hart up with what will be in front of him.

Ready for this...........Right now I would trade Simmonds straight up for Brayden Schenn.

Giroux - Couturier - Konecny
Lindblom - Patrick - Voracek
JvR - Schenn - Laughton

Would that top 9 be so bad.
- J35Bacher

You need a good playmaker who can create offense for others to skate with guys like JVR and Laughton, Schenn isn't that guy.

I would also add that if he isn't getting top PP minutes that will also hurt his value.
- J35Bacher

Agreed

Hart is just starting to get into a groove in the AHL. I would not bring him up right now, as painful as it may be.

Like you said, if he's going to give you similar to what Pickard/Lyon will, then I'd rather he just stay in the AHL for now.
- jmatchett383

I don't want Hart anywhere near this mess right now. This is not the situation you add a 20 year goalie with less than 10 pro starts.

Fantasy question.. I picked up JVR, will he be playing on the third line all year? is he not a top line or 2nd line guy? or they just easing him in slowly after the injury?

Fantasy question.. I picked up JVR, will he be playing on the third line all year? is he not a top line or 2nd line guy? or they just easing him in slowly after the injury?
- devils2929

top two lines were playing well with him out. But with Hakstol he might be back in top 6 any time. Also he is on pp1 right now.

I don't want Hart anywhere near this mess right now. This is not the situation you add a 20 year goalie with less than 10 pro starts.
- BiggE

Kind of why I asked. Didn't know if you might strike lightening in a bottle like Mason did his rookie year.

With what goalie? With what PK?

This team has won exactly one playoff series with Simmonds in the lineup. What ever will they do without him?
- hereticpride

You could use that for a lot of players. Let's trade them all.

Slow starts to seasons: Been happening for years

Slow starts to games: Been happening for years

Not showing any emotion or sense of urgency until trailing in the 3rd: Been happening for years.

The above is not on Ron Hextall or the coaches, it's squarely on the players, and mostly on the leadership group consisting of Giroux, Voracek, and Simmonds. It's time to deal one of the 3 and Simmonds is the logical one to go.
- BiggE

There isnt much leadership tbh. How many Vets are actually on the team now? Giroux, Voracek, AMac, Gudas, Lehtera, Weise, JVR Raffl. This team is getting young fast. Not many of these guys strike me as leaders. One of the strengths the old Flyers had was the surplus of leadership. Guys like Kimo, Briere, Pronger, Richards, Giroux ect

Problem is I think we are getting young too quick. A lot of our young guys are still learning to be pros and finding consitancy in their game. To me that is fine with the 3rd line but you need guys on the top 2 lines that will be consistand day in and day out. We arent getting that because I think our young guys are being rushed.

There isnt much leadership tbh. How many Vets are actually on the team now? Giroux, Voracek, AMac, Gudas, Lehtera, Weise, JVR Raffl. This team is getting young fast. Not many of these guys strike me as leaders. One of the strengths the old Flyers had was the surplus of leadership. Guys like Kimo, Briere, Pronger, Richards, Giroux ect

Problem is I think we are getting young too quick. A lot of our young guys are still learning to be pros and finding consitancy in their game. To me that is fine with the 3rd line but you need guys on the top 2 lines that will be consistand day in and day out. We arent getting that because I think our young guys are being rushed.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Teams have gone young fast and been fine. It's all in how things come together. Right now the Flyers are not a cohesive team.

Flyers shouldnt make any rash moves. Dont make a trade just to make a trade. That is how EDM ended up giving Hall for Larsson. The only moves I would make right now are trading Simmonds and Voracek. Simmonds because I want to improve the team and I dont feel he is a solution. Voracek I would move only if I am able to make a trade for Nylander. Voracek could be used to replace the pieces lost getting Nylander or maybe even used to get the pieces for Nylander.

Toronto would not want Voracek back so picks and a young Dman would be a good return which would allow us to send a Dman(+) to TOR as well as freeing up that 8 mill of cap space needed

There isnt much leadership tbh. How many Vets are actually on the team now? Giroux, Voracek, AMac, Gudas, Lehtera, Weise, JVR Raffl. This team is getting young fast. Not many of these guys strike me as leaders. One of the strengths the old Flyers had was the surplus of leadership. Guys like Kimo, Briere, Pronger, Richards, Giroux ect

Problem is I think we are getting young too quick. A lot of our young guys are still learning to be pros and finding consitancy in their game. To me that is fine with the 3rd line but you need guys on the top 2 lines that will be consistand day in and day out. We arent getting that because I think our young guys are being rushed.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

That's true to some degree, but at the end of the day, guys like Giroux, Simmonds, VOracek, Couturier and to a lesser extent Raffl, JVR, Weise and Lehtera should be plenty of leadership to break in some young forwards.

Where I agree with you is on the D. This group could badly use a Pronger/Timonen type to be THE GUY on the D and show them how it's done. Gudas doesn't strike as even remotely that type of player, Folin is a journeyman and AMac is pretty much a journeyman at this point in his career as well.

Yet, when I suggest making a move for a quality vet D/another established NHL goalie/a legit 3C; some people react like it would be a crime akin to murder to move any assets to acquire anyone. You cannot build a team solely through the draft and free agency will often lead to spending more money than you should. Stockpiling picks and prospects is great, but at some part you have to be willing to part with a few of them to make your team better. I'm not saying go old school Bob Clarke, but this teams needs to make a deal or 2.

Teams have gone young fast and been fine. It's all in how things come together. Right now the Flyers are not a cohesive team.
- dragonoffrost

That is due to the fact of

A: Having strong leadership
B: Getting generational talent

Flyers lack both atm

Elliott really isn't a classic starting goalie though. He has never even in his younger days, been a guy who starts 60 or so games a year. He is a guy that can function well as the 1A guy in a tandem. Optimal use for Elliott is for him to start 47-52 games. This means you better have a proven, reliable NHL goalie who can capably start the other 30-35 games. This is where Hextall (frank)ed up. I don't blame Hak, he's paid to win games, and his job is on the line. Elliot right now, is likely the only goalie he has any confidence in.

This is 100% on Ron Hextall. I'm not calling for his head, but I damn well am calling for him to do something about it.
- BiggE

Regarding Hextall, I believe he has bought himself 2-3 years due to the number of "prospects" we have in the system. If they start to look like they aren't hitting, then he is gone. Yes, he has made some bad moves in regards to trades/FA but the longer term plan is the draft prospects. I can't see them firing him with his fingerprints all over the farm system. Just my take.

Who would fire Ron? Is it Holmgren? Who's calling the shots? I don't know much about Dave Scott's background, but he needs to be getting input from somewhere.

That is due to the fact of

A: Having strong leadership
B: Getting generational talent

Flyers lack both atm
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

The team that beat us last night had which of those?

Flyers shouldnt make any rash moves. Dont make a trade just to make a trade. That is how EDM ended up giving Hall for Larsson. The only moves I would make right now are trading Simmonds and Voracek. Simmonds because I want to improve the team and I dont feel he is a solution. Voracek I would move only if I am able to make a trade for Nylander. Voracek could be used to replace the pieces lost getting Nylander or maybe even used to get the pieces for Nylander.

Toronto would not want Voracek back so picks and a young Dman would be a good return which would allow us to send a Dman(+) to TOR as well as freeing up that 8 mill of cap space needed
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Penguins have been losing, they just made a total panic trade giving up that monster Carl Hagelin for Tanner Pearson. They got taking to the cleaners. Robbed blind. That is what losing Organizations do.

Another wasted season with an incompetent coaching staff. Yawn.

Everyone excited for the carnival?

Hypothetically. If this is a long term injury...would you just bite the bullet and bring Hart up to pair with Pickard and let him run with it.
- J35Bacher

That would be a good way to turn a wasted season into a disaster. Hart's having enough trouble with the AHL right now, where the spotlight is much less bright.