I think he's played well the last few games and starting to round into form. First 6 games or so I thought he was terrible for his standards.
- ClaudeFather

I meant the last few games I have been wondering, but last game he struggled against Arizona. Easily 3 turnovers in the first period alone.

Do you think that Keith would have won if he only had 45 points instead of 69? A 24-point swing may have passed that trophy onto Mike Green.
- jmatchett383

I would love for a Flyer to win an award at the end of the year, but to me awards mean just as little as all-star appearances.

All-Star formats have changed so much over the years. First you have a voting system that is flawed, which makes it more of a popularity contest. Then every team has to have a representative there, which surely means someone more deserving gets left off because of it. Finally you have all-star selections missing the game because of injury or declining, which means someone takes their place who wouldn't of been an all-star otherwise.

As for awards, extremely flawed. Everyone who votes uses their own interpretation and rules on who is the most deserving. No actual structure or guidelines to follow. Voting on the Selke trophy is more about the "best defensive" player with the most points. Many years back Selke award winners weren't very high scoring forwards. So is it for the best defensive forward or the highest scoring forward with the best defensive skills? Same thing with the Norris. The Norris trophy is not given to the best defenseman anymore, it's given to the highest scoring defenseman who plays the most in the league. Everything is based on production, not play.

Do you think that Keith would have won if he only had 45 points instead of 69? A 24-point swing may have passed that trophy onto Mike Green.
- jmatchett383

100% he would not have won, not may have, would have passed the award to Mike Green.

Do you think that Keith would have won if he only had 45 points instead of 69? A 24-point swing may have passed that trophy onto Mike Green.
- jmatchett383

Wow....

Ok....

I’m going to ask a question with a question. Do you think Shayne Gostisbehere will always be a Philadelphia Flyer? Because this seems to be the mindset. In opinion, if Ghost doesn’t put up points, he’s useless. One slow season of Ghost, makes Ghost useless.


I believe that you guys are all speaking from the mindset that things are always going to be this way. Ghost will always be great offensively. Ghost will always be here. Provorov will only ever put up 40 points, even though it’s only his third season.

Wow....

Ok....

I’m going to ask a question with a question. Do you think Shayne Gostisbehere will always be a Philadelphia Flyer? Because this seems to be the mindset. In opinion, if Ghost doesn’t put up points, he’s useless. One slow season of Ghost, makes Ghost useless.


I believe that you guys are all speaking from the mindset that things are always going to be this way. Ghost will always be great offensively. Ghost will always be here. Provorov will only ever put up 40 points, even though it’s only his third season.
- SuperSchennBros

All I asked was whether or not you think Keith would have still won had he put up 20+ less points.

I think that, barring an unforseen blockbuster or long-term injury, that Ghost will be a Flyer for at least the next 6-7 years, and that he will be one of the better PP QBs in hockey.

I think that Provorov COULD put up 55+ points if needed. But I think the Flyers would rather use his minutes at ES and on the PK and give him lighter duty on the PP to best maximize his ice time.

Overall, I think that Provorov has the skillset required to win a Norris Trophy. However, the Flyers job is to maximize the results of the team, and not the player, so he may never get the chance to put up the gaudy offensive numbers that the voters cling to.

Chill out dude. Not everything is an attack on you.

Haha thought you were looking at D exclusive categories but my point still holds true. Doughty won with 51 points and other than that past 8 years you needed 60+ (excluding Subban lockout year)
- ClaudeFather

It was still done, right? Is 51 unreachable for Provorov?

All I asked was whether or not you think Keith would have still won had he put up 20+ less points.

I think that, barring an unforseen blockbuster or long-term injury, that Ghost will be a Flyer for at least the next 6-7 years, and that he will be one of the better PP QBs in hockey.

I think that Provorov COULD put up 55+ points if needed. But I think the Flyers would rather use his minutes at ES and on the PK and give him lighter duty on the PP to best maximize his ice time.

Overall, I think that Provorov has the skillset required to win a Norris Trophy. However, the Flyers job is to maximize the results of the team, and not the player, so he may never get the chance to put up the gaudy offensive numbers that the voters cling to.

Chill out dude. Not everything is an attack on you.
- jmatchett383

As pointed out, Doughty won with 51 point, no?

It was still done, right? Is 51 unreachable for Provorov?
- SuperSchennBros

51 is not unreachable with Provy but with the top defensemen in this league currently hitting 65+ points every year, I really don't see 51 points winning the Norris.

As pointed out, Doughty won with 51 point, no?
- SuperSchennBros

Yes he did. And in my opinion, he was the right pick, although most people panned it (although I thought Josi was more deserving personally). That said, isn't on the same level as Doughty, but has time to grow into a player like him.

But seriously. why do you have to make everything into a super argument? Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean it's a personal attack.

It was still done, right? Is 51 unreachable for Provorov?
- SuperSchennBros

The 51 was more of an anomaly, stop being so ignorant.

Yes he did. And in my opinion, he was the right pick, although most people panned it (although I thought Josi was more deserving personally). That said, isn't on the same level as Doughty, but has time to grow into a player like him.

But seriously. why do you have to make everything into a super argument? Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean it's a personal attack.
- jmatchett383

1 out of the last 10 guys winning the Norris had sub 60 points and he is holding onto it like every year that is going to happen. If anything, you will need even more points than the past years winners, the trend is going that way.

Maybe. Maybe not.
- johndewar

I'll settle for Provorov being as good as one of the topics of the today's blog which is Kimmo Timonen. Who by the way isn't close to being a HOF player although he was a very good defensemen. Provorov is not near that level yet.

Yes he did. And in my opinion, he was the right pick, although most people panned it (although I thought Josi was more deserving personally). That said, isn't on the same level as Doughty, but has time to grow into a player like him.

But seriously. why do you have to make everything into a super argument? Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean it's a personal attack.
- jmatchett383

Do you want me to answer that?

Short answer: Needs validation.

I'll settle for Provorov being as good as one of the topics of the today's blog which is Kimmo Timonen. Who by the way isn't close to being a HOF player although he was a very good defensemen. Provorov is not near that level yet.
- MJL

Of course, that would be fantastic.

I'll settle for Provorov being as good as one of the topics of the today's blog which is Kimmo Timonen. Who by the way isn't close to being a HOF player although he was a very good defensemen. Provorov is not near that level yet.
- MJL

Well he has some time to catch up. Kimmo wasnt a full time NHL defenseman until he was 27.

Well he has some time to catch up. Kimmo wasnt a full time NHL defenseman until he was 27.
- Baxter27

27? Bust-aroo

I would love for a Flyer to win an award at the end of the year, but to me awards mean just as little as all-star appearances.

All-Star formats have changed so much over the years. First you have a voting system that is flawed, which makes it more of a popularity contest. Then every team has to have a representative there, which surely means someone more deserving gets left off because of it. Finally you have all-star selections missing the game because of injury or declining, which means someone takes their place who wouldn't of been an all-star otherwise.

As for awards, extremely flawed. Everyone who votes uses their own interpretation and rules on who is the most deserving. No actual structure or guidelines to follow. Voting on the Selke trophy is more about the "best defensive" player with the most points. Many years back Selke award winners weren't very high scoring forwards. So is it for the best defensive forward or the highest scoring forward with the best defensive skills? Same thing with the Norris. The Norris trophy is not given to the best defenseman anymore, it's given to the highest scoring defenseman who plays the most in the league. Everything is based on production, not play.
- Glak18

To be fair the Selke trophy is supposed to go to the forward who shows the best defensive skill at the positon, so I can see how offense should be left out of that. However the Norris trophy is supposed to go to the defenseman who shows the best overall skill at the position. Offense is and should be a component of that.

I'll settle for Provorov being as good as one of the topics of the today's blog which is Kimmo Timonen. Who by the way isn't close to being a HOF player although he was a very good defensemen. Provorov is not near that level yet.
- MJL

Actually I see similarities to Kimmo in Provy’s game now. Of course, I didn’t watch some of the other greats he has been compared to. At only 21 years of age, we haven’t really seen his ceiling.

Lucic
Just caught wind of this issue.
A $10,000 fine for essentially hunting down a player.
Ridiculous.
He should have been suspended three games.





*of

Yes he did. And in my opinion, he was the right pick, although most people panned it (although I thought Josi was more deserving personally). That said, isn't on the same level as Doughty, but has time to grow into a player like him.

But seriously. why do you have to make everything into a super argument? Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean it's a personal attack.
- jmatchett383

Who personally attacked you and how?

The 51 was more of an anomaly, stop being so ignorant.
- ClaudeFather

Nothing I’ve stated is ignorant. Have I offered you facts to my argument?

The ignorance comes from anyone insisting that Provorov cannot win a Norris after watching him for two full season and the only thing holding him back is Ghost being on the top PP unit. That’s ignorance.

Nothing I’ve stated is ignorant. Have I offered you facts to my argument?

The ignorance comes from anyone insisting that Provorov cannot win a Norris after watching him for two full season and the only thing holding him back is Ghost being on the top PP unit. That’s ignorance.
- SuperSchennBros

Not a single person on here insisted Provy can't win a Norris. And saying it's going to be tough for him to win one without consistent PP1 time isn't ignorant, it's a fact. With the trend of scoring in today's NHL going up, unless there's a change in the voting, no defenseman is going to win the Norris without putting up at the very least 65 points.

To be fair the Selke trophy is supposed to go to the forward who shows the best defensive skill at the positon, so I can see how offense should be left out of that. However the Norris trophy is supposed to go to the defenseman who shows the best overall skill at the position. Offense is and should be a component of that.
- MJL

And...

if you look at the current discussion taking place about the Norris, 1 common factor...how many points scored. Is it a consideration, sure, but the main argument it shouldn't be.

I love Ghost and Provorov on the Flyers, but they both clearly have different roles in this league. Is Ghost just as effective if he doesn't generate offense, no, but if you ask the same thing about Provorov then the answer is yes. Of course that doesn't mean you don't want Provorov to generate offense or Ghost to play defense, but they have different skillsets. Swapping Ghost with Provorov on the PP does not mean Provorov becomes a yearly 65+ point producer either. One thing that I notice that isn't being discussed is the fact generating offense doesn't always put a point in the stat column for the player.

Lucic
Just caught wind of this issue.
A $10,000 fine for essentially hunting down a player.
Ridiculous.
He should have been suspended three games.





*of
- Scoob

I was thinking at least 2 games, but 10K pfffft with that trash contract thats nothing for him.

Lucic
Just caught wind of this issue.
A $10,000 fine for essentially hunting down a player.
Ridiculous.
He should have been suspended three games.



*of
- Scoob

Complete joke. Last I checked they were trying to get blind side hits out of the game and that's their response to one of the most malicious example of the season.