You are focusing on one side of the game. Try looking at the other side you know the one where you want to stop goals going into your net. The one that everyone pins on 3 guys but it's really on 6. Until the Flyer play a 60 minute 200 foot game they will be mediocre. OH Wait I used the dreaded 200 foot game that Hakstol and Hextall have been preaching for 4 year.
- dragonoffrost

And you’re trying to convince me that the Coach has nothing to do with the problem you just displayed???? There is zero consideration that the system is could by why are defense stinks?????

And you’re trying to convince me that the Coach has nothing to do with the problem you just displayed???? There is zero consideration that the system is could by why are defense stinks?????
- SuperSchennBros

It's equal responsibility but changing coaches for a third time with the core doing the same crap under the previous two brings to mind a quote that has been credited to Albert Einstein.


So maybe I'm leaning towards making roster changes that are players who can and will play the system being taught.

Either way it's only got this year and next to fix itself or Hextall and Hakstol will most likely be gone and then there will be a total rebuild where as bad as this team is it will probably be a lot worse before it gets better.

It's equal responsibility but changing coaches for a third time with the core doing the same crap under the previous two brings to mind a quote that has been credited to Albert Einstein.

- dragonoffrost

Dude, in the early 2000’s we had the same core of Roenick, LeClair, Recchi, Primeau, Desjardins and Gagne under Bill Barber. Fired his ass. Brought in Ken Hitchcock abs there was an instant change. Hitch’s system was a boring defense first mindset but Hitch found a balance that clearly made us better.

Dude, in the early 2000’s we had the same core of Roenick, LeClair, Recchi, Primeau, Desjardins and Gagne under Bill Barber. Fired his ass. Brought in Ken Hitchcock abs there was an instant change. Hitch’s system was a boring defense first mindset but Hitch found a balance that clearly made us better.
- SuperSchennBros

Because the core bought into his style and played it. This core has been with three coaches and none of their system worked. Maybe the parts are not fitting together to make a complete puzzle.

But no let's just say because firing the coach made a difference that time it will 100% be the answer this time.

Which coach are you bringing in? There aren't many choices available right now.

Hitch and Sutter have pretty much told teams they are 100% done coaching.

Tippet is with Seattle's bid.

Vigneault? Bylsma?

Dude, in the early 2000’s we had the same core of Roenick, LeClair, Recchi, Primeau, Desjardins and Gagne under Bill Barber. Fired his ass. Brought in Ken Hitchcock abs there was an instant change. Hitch’s system was a boring defense first mindset but Hitch found a balance that clearly made us better.
- SuperSchennBros

I agree that Hak should be fired by now but I understand what he's trying to say. These same core players have been having the same issues with three different coaches now. So, if things don't change with them then it's not gonna matter who's behind the bench.

I agree that Hak should be fired by now but I understand what he's trying to say. These same core players have been having the same issues with three different coaches now. So, if things don't change with them then it's not gonna matter who's behind the bench.
- ajw12

I agree that Hak should be fired by now but I understand what he's trying to say. These same core players have been having the same issues with three different coaches now. So, if things don't change with them then it's not gonna matter who's behind the bench.
- ajw12

They haven't bought in but Cooter, G, and Jake all had career years last year? What am I missing. Slow starts, lazy backchecking, idk. Jake is the only one with the backc hecking issue. I still think this team's issue is scoring depth and shaky Dmen, not core players.

What was the injury to the knee anyways? Deep bruise from the shot or something?
- Hextall271

Considering the time frame and the area where he was struck by the puck, my guess is that it was some sort of bone chip or fracture.

I agree that Hak should be fired by now but I understand what he's trying to say. These same core players have been having the same issues with three different coaches now. So, if things don't change with them then it's not gonna matter who's behind the bench.
- ajw12

Another constant with this core, lack of depth.

But it has to be the stars (G, Jake, Simmer, ect...)

Remember when Pitt wanted to run Crosby out of town back before they fired the GM and brought in JR.

JR fires the coach makes a few moves and BAM! 2 Cups. The depth improved which improved the team.

They haven't bought in but Cooter, G, and Jake all had career years last year? What am I missing. Slow starts, lazy backchecking, idk. Jake is the only one with the backc hecking issue. I still think this team's issue is scoring depth and shaky Dmen, not core players.
- ClaudeFather

Claude takes shifts off really noticeably. Hell where the heck was he Saturday when this team was challenged by the coach. He should have went out and had a shift like that fabled playoff shift against Crosby under Lavy. But nope he didn't do jack physically to change that game.

I agree that Hak should be fired by now but I understand what he's trying to say. These same core players have been having the same issues with three different coaches now. So, if things don't change with them then it's not gonna matter who's behind the bench.
- ajw12

Laviolette is probably still here if he was willing to adjust his system. Lavy took a stance and right in doing so. He’s taken Nashville to a Cup Final. He took us to a Cup Final. He won a Cup before coming here. Lavy only missed the playoffs once in a lockout season. Prior to that, Lavy took us to the second round or further in his four seasons with two two different cores.

This group didn’t give up on Lavy. Management did.

Another constant with this core, lack of depth.

But it has to be the stars (G, Jake, Simmer, ect...)

Remember when Pitt wanted to run Crosby out of town back before they fired the GM and brought in JR.

JR fires the coach makes a few moves and BAM! 2 Cups. The depth improved which improved the team.
- ggunky

What I saw last night was the best game of the season so far from Provorov and Patrick. Those 2 kids are crucial if this team is going to have success.

Another constant with this core, lack of depth.

But it has to be the stars (G, Jake, Simmer, ect...)

Remember when Pitt wanted to run Crosby out of town back before they fired the GM and brought in JR.

JR fires the coach makes a few moves and BAM! 2 Cups. The depth improved which improved the team.
- ggunky

They have the depth this year when JvR is back.

G-Coots-TK
Lindblom-Patrick-Jake
JvR-Weal-Simmer - I'd find a way to get Weal out. But Misha didn't work
Laughton-Lehtera-Weise which by is a line of the guys who have worked their asses off this season.

Yes the D is shaky and Goalies aren't 100%

Don't say there isn't depth there.

Because the core bought into his style and played it. This core has been with three coaches and none of their system worked. Maybe the parts are not fitting together to make a complete puzzle.

But no let's just say because firing the coach made a difference that time it will 100% be the answer this time.

Which coach are you bringing in? There aren't many choices available right now.

Hitch and Sutter have pretty much told teams they are 100% done coaching.

Tippet is with Seattle's bid.

Vigneault? Bylsma?
- dragonoffrost

I’m not gonna explain the Lavy situation again because you’re wrong about why he was fired. Berube was a first time coach, who was kind of a meat head and got Hartnell traded, which brought Umberger here.

I’m not seeing what you see in Hakstol that makes him more or as special as Laviolette or Berube.

Claude takes shifts off really noticeably. Hell where the heck was he Saturday when this team was challenged by the coach. He should have went out and had a shift like that fabled playoff shift against Crosby under Lavy. But nope he didn't do jack physically to change that game.
- dragonoffrost

Seemed to be everywhere last night, two assists, set the tone for the road trip. He's out best damn player every game, give me a break. You're pointing the finger at the wrong guy. This team lacks scoring depth, we need guys like Patty, Linblom, Laughts to step up and we can win games.

Laviolette is probably still here if he was willing to adjust his system. Lavy took a stance and right in doing so. He’s taken Nashville to a Cup Final. He took us to a Cup Final. He won a Cup before coming here. Lavy only missed the playoffs once in a lockout season. Prior to that, Lavy took us to the second round or further in his four seasons with two two different cores.

This group didn’t give up on Lavy. Management did.
- SuperSchennBros

Hmmmmmmmmmm and Hak with a team in transition, outside of this core, has taken this team to the playoffs two years of the three he's been here. So you actually make a good case to change the core....

What I saw last night was the best game of the season so far from Provorov and Patrick. Those 2 kids are crucial if this team is going to have success.
- BiggE

Totally agree, we need Patrick to produce at a 56/60 point pace and Provy to be our rock and we will be alright. Clean up the Dzone as well.

They have the depth this year when JvR is back.

G-Coots-TK
Lindblom-Patrick-Jake
JvR-Weal-Simmer - I'd find a way to get Weal out. But Misha didn't work
Laughton-Lehtera-Weise which by is a line of the guys who have worked their asses off this season.

Yes the D is shaky and Goalies aren't 100%

Don't say there isn't depth there.
- dragonoffrost

The only real critical hole is 3C, Weal isn’t going to cut it and Laughton isn’t the playmaker you need to slot between JVR and Simmonds.

Seemed to be everywhere last night, two assists, set the tone for the road trip. He's out best damn player every game, give me a break. You're pointing the finger at the wrong guy. This team lacks scoring depth, we need guys like Patty, Linblom, Laughts to step up and we can win games.
- ClaudeFather

Wait was this team challenged before last night or before Saturday? I'm sorry he didn't do SH!T in the worst performance this team had this year. In a game they really should have came out with their hair on fire and beat a BAD Islanders team.

Laughts is (frank)ing 3rd on this team in goals. I'd say he's stepping up. Nolan looked better last night. Lindblom isn't getting the results but he's playing the game the way the coach wants it played. Pucks should start going in for him.

They have the depth this year when JvR is back.

G-Coots-TK
Lindblom-Patrick-Jake
JvR-Weal-Simmer - I'd find a way to get Weal out. But Misha didn't work
Laughton-Lehtera-Weise which by is a line of the guys who have worked their asses off this season.

Yes the D is shaky and Goalies aren't 100%

Don't say there isn't depth there.
- dragonoffrost

This is depth?

Patrick is a second year play who has been OK.

Weal is your 3rd line center, you could argue he is a boardline NHL player.

Linblom is another 2nd year player who has been OK.

That is the other thing that drives me nuts about this fan base and BSH, all this clamoring for playing the kids. The kids are playing and are all over the line-up!

And we are seeing the results of playing the kids, struggles. Lots of them.

I am not saying the Flyers need to fire Hextall and start over, but I am saying the depth is a huge question mark on this team.

This is depth?

Patrick is a second year play who has been OK.

Weal is your 3rd line center, you could argue his is a boardline NHL player.

Linblom is another 2nd year player who has been OK.

That is the other thing that drives me nuts about this fan base and BSH, all this clamoring for playing the kids. The kids are playing and all over the line-up!

And we are seeing the results of playing the kids, struggles. Lots of them.

I am not saying the Flyers need to fire Hextall and start over, but I am saying the depth is a huge question mark on this team.
- ggunky

Struggles:
G - 3 Goals
Coots - 4 Goals
Voracek -3 Goals

And all - players which means they are being scored on more than they score.

Not Struggling:
Simmonds - 6 Goals (yes he's a minus player too which he needs to clean up)
Laughton - 4 goals in mainly a 3rd/4th line role.

They haven't bought in but Cooter, G, and Jake all had career years last year? What am I missing. Slow starts, lazy backchecking, idk. Jake is the only one with the backc hecking issue. I still think this team's issue is scoring depth and shaky Dmen, not core players.
- ClaudeFather

Yes they did last year and they made the playoffs. I agree with you on the depth scoring issue but I feel like that will be better once JVR is healthy. But so far this year, the two big problems with the defense is Coots and Provy not playing up to their standards and other forwards not helping on D. Coots and Provy are both making mistakes consistently that they would rarely ever make. Once they start playing up to their standards, and last night was a good step forward for both of them, this team will start winning again, with or without Hak. Hopefully without but idk who I'd replace him with midseason.

Hmmmmmmmmmm and Hak with a team in transition, outside of this core, has taken this team to the playoffs two years of the three he's been here. So you actually make a good case to change the core....
- dragonoffrost

OK, answer me this. What coaching decisions has Dave Hakstol ever made to single-handedly win us a game. When has Dave Hakstol ever made adjustments endgame to skyrocket us to a win we’re down? I’m not even sure he’s ever want to coaches challenge.

Or maybe he does and that right decision is sticking with Hakstol and the players sacking the (frank) up instead of quitting on their third coach.
- dragonoffrost

Is that what happened in 14-15, players like Mason and Streit and Giroux and Voracek with his 81 points "quit" on Berube?

Hextall didn't think so.

In a nutshell, in the end I didn’t feel like he got enough out of our group collectively.

You really have to decide, is the coach is the right coach for your team now. If the answer to that is no, you need to move on. I’m not going to hedge my bet here and say OK, I see a great coach that I can put in play, so I’m going to make this move. If you don’t think it’s the right head coach you’ve got to move on, and that’s what we did here.

I’m not one of those guys that necessarily looks at the players and are the players happy or are they unhappy. I think in the end, a coach’s job is to get the most out of his players, and in the end that’s the conclusion that I came to, was that that wasn’t the case.

Struggles:
G - 3 Goals
Coots - 4 Goals
Voracek -3 Goals

Not Struggling:
Simmonds - 6 Goals
Laughton - 4 goals in mainly a 3rd/4th line role.
- dragonoffrost

G and Jake are first pass guys. You can not omit the assists, however I know why you did, it doesn't fit your narrative.

I notice you didn't show me the points of: TK, NoPa, Vorobyev, Linblom.

A point a game from your stars isn't good enough. But barely getting points from your top line winger(TK) and 2 of the 3 guys(Lindblom and NoPa) on the second line is excused.

I am not ripping the kids, although I know it looks like it, I am simply saying that the kids have been given HUGE rolls on this team but aren't producing at the clip required to help this team be successful.

It is still early and I love the kids on this team! When they start playing up to their potential watch how this team starts winning.