Every player has a piece in this but I think you're off base in singling out Gudas and Hagg as having anymore of it than any other player. Signing a UFA defenseman to a deal with significant term was not what the Flyers should've done. The Flyers were one of the better 5 on 5 defensive teams in the league last year. They simply need to get back to that. deHaan or Green wouldn't change what is happening now single handily. They aren't that good. Folin was brought in to be the 7th defenseman.

Feel free to provide the link to the post you made that all that is happening now would be happening if the Flyers don't sign deHaan or Green.
- MJL

You don't know that. Carolina is in a playoff spot with Petr Mrazek in goal, and the Flyers are playing for a good draft pick. Everybody talks about how awful AMac was last year, and yet their record was better in games he appeared in then those he did not. Over multiple seasons. A player can have bad Corsi numbers and make a difference in the room and on the bench.

But don't tell me I am using "hindsight" when this is exactly what I predicted would happen. You can't win in the NHL if you give up this many goals.

I am rarely for a mid season coaching change, but if they don't pull it together this road trip then it may be time.
I am with the mindset of a trotz/torts here. You can't teach scoring prowess, but you can teach team D. Right now, this team doesn't have a work hard team D mentality. This is a team problem. Some may want to point at individuals poor play, but the problem is that they are playing like a team of individuals. it looks like no one is playing of something more than themselves and if you have that in a team sport, you are doomed.
And that is a coaching issue.
- nails

Well said. Players are trying to do too much and playing outside of the system. Recent examples are Folin going for a big hit and Sanheim leaving his feet.

I won't go as far as saying he's automatically written off. I don't believe that happened. I believe that the players don't feel that he can lead them out of this. I also feel that Hakstol just doesn't have to experience to keep this from happening in the first place.
- MJL

I’m sure the players, especially the veteran players, were more than a little skeptical about the hiring. Haxstol just doesn’t have the clout.

You don't know that. Carolina is in a playoff spot with Petr Mrazek in goal, and the Flyers are playing for a good draft pick. Everybody talks about how awful AMac was last year, and yet their record was better in games he appeared in then those he did not. Over multiple seasons. A player can have bad Corsi numbers and make a difference in the room and on the bench.

But don't tell me I am using "hindsight" when this is exactly what I predicted would happen. You can't win in the NHL if you give up this many goals.
- hockeyal

I don't believe this is what you predicted. No reputable source would place that much value on signing a player like deHaan. It's pure hindsight.

You're preaching to the choir concerning MacDonald. I'm also the guy who stated that despite some bad numbers, Fillpula was an important player for the Flyers last year. He took a lot of the heavy lifting last season and allowed other players to play in better situations. They haven't been able to replace that.

I couldn’t agree more. That’s the problem with bringing a college coach into an nhl locker room. Hes automatically written off by the players and Haxstol just doesn’t of the force of personality to overcome it.
- Dkos

Yup give me an experienced NHL coach please. If you want to wait til next off season to make a final hire and you are going to go with an interim guy, here are 2 options:

1. See if you can talk Hitchcock out of retirement. Hitch will at least get these guys playing sound defensively or some guys who never get scratched will be getting an up close and personal look at the Cote suite

2. Ask Holmgren to take over. Pretty sure he won’t have hard time getting the boys respect, even if he has to beat it out of them

Either would be a better choice than Knoblauch or Gordon

I couldn’t agree more. That’s the problem with bringing a college coach into an nhl locker room. Hes automatically written off by the players and Haxstol just doesn’t of the force of personality to overcome it.
- Dkos

Is that why the Flyers stopped playing for Stevens and Lavy and Chief? Oh wait, they weren't college coaches. This argument is just stupid.

The Flyers play has almost nothing to do with the coach, any more than their slow start in 2013 did. They are not playing hard. They are not doing the little things. The leadership from the players group is not effective enough. They are not holding themselves and each other accountable.

The Flyers play has almost nothing to do with the coach, any more than their slow start in 2013 did. They are not playing hard. They are not doing the little things. The leadership from the players group is not effective enough. They are not holding themselves and each other accountable.
- hockeyal

I agree with this but coaching is a results oriented business. It's the coaches job to guide the players and give them the guidance to improve. Whether it's his fault or not, he is responsible. I like Hakstol and I think he is a good coach but I just don't have the confidence that he has the coaching moxie to guide the team out of this. I wonder if the players feel that he does.

Yup give me an experienced NHL coach please. If you want to wait til next off season to make a final hire and you are going to go with an interim guy, here are 2 options:

1. See if you can talk Hitchcock out of retirement. Hitch will at least get these guys playing sound defensively or some guys who never get scratched will be getting an up close and personal look at the Cote suite

2. Ask Holmgren to take over. Pretty sure he won’t have hard time getting the boys respect, even if he has to beat it out of them

Either would be a better choice than Knoblauch or Gordon
- BiggE

Maybe they could hire Chief away from the Blues? He was DEFINITELY a better coach than Peter Laviolette, right? I mean, the team won some games.

I agree with this but coaching is a results oriented business. It's the coaches job to guide the players and give them the guidance to improve. Whether it's his fault or not, he is responsible. I like Hakstol and I think he is a good coach but I just don't have the confidence that he has the coaching moxie to guide the team out of this. I wonder if the players feel that he does.
- MJL

That’s how I see it. It’s not about Xs and Os, it’s about the ability to communicate and command respect. Hak, IMO, has lost the room. A change needs to be made.

Also, just as when Hitchcock was brought in 2002, Hextall needs to make it absolutely clear to the players that it is now absolutely on them and if things don’t improve, the new coach isn’t going anywhere. Rather a lot of current Philadelphia Flyers will soon be former Philadelphia Flyers.

Maybe they could hire Chief away from the Blues? He was DEFINITELY a better coach than Peter Laviolette, right? I mean, the team won some games.
- hockeyal

This response is beyond asinine.

I agree with this but coaching is a results oriented business. It's the coaches job to guide the players and give them the guidance to improve. Whether it's his fault or not, he is responsible. I like Hakstol and I think he is a good coach but I just don't have the confidence that he has the coaching moxie to guide the team out of this. I wonder if the players feel that he does.
- MJL

This really isn't what happens when an Andy Reid or a Ken Hitchcock or Peter Laviolette can't get a team to play for him. The players just get complacent and stop listening. That doesn't appear to be what is happening here. I think the players look around and nobody is stepping up and they legitimately doubt there is enough talent in the room.

Everybody was electing Gallant to the HoF last season because of the job he did in Vegas. But the trick was that EVERY guy played hard EVERY night with a chip on their shoulder. They have nothing to prove this year, and even though they have more talent, they are not winning. The most highly touted (I can't bring myself to say they are the "best" players) never play with a chip on their shoulders and are not playing hard day in and day out. No coach can coach away you guys getting outworked. A few blockbuster trades of some "highly touted" players would have got their attention.

This response is beyond asinine.
- BiggE

It's as effective a solution as what you suggested. Change for the sake of change is asinine.

And even Hitch couldn't get some of these guys to play sound defense. They don't have the ability.

Is that why the Flyers stopped playing for Stevens and Lavy and Chief? Oh wait, they weren't college coaches. This argument is just stupid.

The Flyers play has almost nothing to do with the coach, any more than their slow start in 2013 did. They are not playing hard. They are not doing the little things. The leadership from the players group is not effective enough. They are not holding themselves and each other accountable.
- hockeyal

That may be the case about the leadership group.

I also don’t think this is a coach that the team really values, but I do have to say this is purely speculative.

Throughout the years, there have been a few quotes about Hak from players that give me reason to believe that is the case. Schenn’s quote about lack of communication and Ghost’s comments about not caring if he got in trouble, just going out to play are the first ones that come to mind.

If you’ve ever played any sport at any sort of level higher than high school you know what a good coach can do. You know what you would do for a coach you really respected. Hak challenged his players last game and they come out with such a horrible effort. To me that speaks volumes about what the words of Hak mean to the club

I think the best option would be Knoblauch or at least the option the Flyers are more likely to go.

The Phantoms are often criticized about their lack of structure under Gordon which is pretty true when you watch them.
- VladDrag

Knoblauch makes sense if they want a permanent solution but I fear he will hit similar struggles Hak has while learning on the job. They need experience behind the bench and I dont think the best candidates are available right now.

Gordon will add more value as an interm solution. He knows the farm and has lots of experience behind an NHL bench.

That’s how I see it. It’s not about Xs and Os, it’s about the ability to communicate and command respect. Hak, IMO, has lost the room. A change needs to be made.

Also, just as when Hitchcock was brought in 2002, Hextall needs to make it absolutely clear to the players that it is now absolutely on them and if things don’t improve, the new coach isn’t going anywhere. Rather a lot of current Philadelphia Flyers will soon be former Philadelphia Flyers.
- BiggE

I don’t really want Knob but I don’t think they let him go either. They went out and brought him in specifically.

I think you probably see Knob, Gordon or Lappy as interim guys and they evaluate at the end of the year.

I’m not sure which way I lean. If you could have a shot at say Quenville or Keefe at the end of the year maybe that’s the way to go. I don’t want to touch Hitch, and Sutter/Tippet don’t really strike me as guys who are progressing with the league. Torts kind of reinvented himself, so who knows.

I'm not excited for this road trip
- bulet13

I am.. I'm going to the Flyers vs Kings game this weekend in LA. Should be fun!

Got the Flyers Foppa jersey with me.

It's as effective a solution as what you suggested. Change for the sake of change is asinine.
- hockeyal

So every time the Flyers have fired a coach it was a mistake? I guess Hak should be given a 10 year extension and that’s that.

Would I like to see a core player or 2 get traded? Damn right I would, but it takes at least one other team to make a deal, and there just might not be a good deal to make at the end of October. Unless you are advocating just moving a core player for the sake of change and the return be damned? If so, that would be beyond stupid.

That may be the case about the leadership group.

I also don’t think this is a coach that the team really values, but I do have to say this is purely speculative.

Throughout the years, there have been a few quotes about Hak from players that give me reason to believe that is the case. Schenn’s quote about lack of communication and Ghost’s comments about not caring if he got in trouble, just going out to play are the first ones that come to mind.

If you’ve ever played any sport at any sort of level higher than high school you know what a good coach can do. You know what you would do for a coach you really respected. Hak challenged his players last game and they come out with such a horrible effort. To me that speaks volumes about what the words of Hak mean to the club
- VladDrag

This has literally NOTHING to do with it. The team LOVED Lavy. They loved and respected Chief. But they still didn't show up. Until some heads rolled.

This roster would benefit from some change. Lets bring in some talent and some players who want to work and have something to prove, before we sacrifice a good coach. Other successful teams aren't changing coaches every time they slump. They fix their roster.

I don’t really want Knob but I don’t think they let him go either. They went out and brought him in specifically.

I think you probably see Knob, Gordon or Lappy as interim guys and they evaluate at the end of the year.

I’m not sure which way I lean. If you could have a shot at say Quenville or Keefe at the end of the year maybe that’s the way to go. I don’t want to touch Hitch, and Sutter/Tippet don’t really strike me as guys who are progressing with the league. Torts kind of reinvented himself, so who knows.
- flyer_nutter

If they are going with an in house interim coach, Gordon would be the best of the bunch. He’s by far the most experienced and he’s already coached a lot of the kids. Knoblauch may be a great head coach some day, but this team badly needs an experienced hand at the helm.

This really isn't what happens when an Andy Reid or a Ken Hitchcock or Peter Laviolette can't get a team to play for him. The players just get complacent and stop listening. That doesn't appear to be what is happening here. I think the players look around and nobody is stepping up and they legitimately doubt there is enough talent in the room.

Everybody was electing Gallant to the HoF last season because of the job he did in Vegas. But the trick was that EVERY guy played hard EVERY night with a chip on their shoulder. They have nothing to prove this year, and even though they have more talent, they are not winning. The most highly touted (I can't bring myself to say they are the "best" players) never play with a chip on their shoulders and are not playing hard day in and day out. No coach can coach away you guys getting outworked. A few blockbuster trades of some "highly touted" players would have got their attention.
- hockeyal

FWIW, according to fancies Vegas is also massively under performing and should right the ship sooner rather than later. Not sure if they will, but that’s what is predicted

Knoblauch makes sense if they want a permanent solution but I fear he will hit similar struggles Hak has while learning on the job. They need experience behind the bench and I dont think the best candidates are available right now.

Gordon will add more value as an interm solution. He knows the farm and has lots of experience behind an NHL bench.
- Baxter27

All I know is if Hak is fired, next year’s hire needs to be a success. Hexy gets one pass on his first coach hire, after that, he needs to make the right choice

an experienced coach with a good track record with a team d approach is what they need right now.
Elliott has shown he can stand on his head at times...as well as softies.
but, they need to put up in front of him before we write him off as a failure.
A couple years ago, people female doged about coaching and that the systems sucked. But t systems didn't necessarily suck...the players available on the team did or they were inexperienced.
Now, the talent is there and the team is young but not inexperienced. but the system may not be right for these players. Not sure about that, but I am positive this is the most talented team we have had since the Briere days.

This has literally NOTHING to do with it. The team LOVED Lavy. They loved and respected Chief. But they still didn't show up. Until some heads rolled.

This roster would benefit from some change. Lets bring in some talent and some players who want to work and have something to prove, before we sacrifice a good coach. Other successful teams aren't changing coaches every time they slump. They fix their roster.
- hockeyal

I’m going to say one thing here. There is obviously more to this than Dave Hakstol. Is the core a group of guys who maybe don’t have that fire that Kimmo or Pronger had? Sure, that may be true. However... Giroux and to a lesser extend Voracek have carried the team on their back for years and any measure of success, any whiff of it has come because of those guys. What have they been sorrounded by for the large part of their prime years?

I don’t disagree with moving one of them if the club feels they bring a lazy and cancerous attitude but somehow I don’t think it’s what is going on. Giroux is our Sundin, and is the last of the team’s problems.

This has literally NOTHING to do with it. The team LOVED Lavy. They loved and respected Chief. But they still didn't show up. Until some heads rolled.

This roster would benefit from some change. Lets bring in some talent and some players who want to work and have something to prove, before we sacrifice a good coach. Other successful teams aren't changing coaches every time they slump. They fix their roster.
- hockeyal

Damn, I thought I had a good idea. Thanks for the clarification

I don’t really want Knob but I don’t think they let him go either. They went out and brought him in specifically.

I think you probably see Knob, Gordon or Lappy as interim guys and they evaluate at the end of the year.

I’m not sure which way I lean. If you could have a shot at say Quenville or Keefe at the end of the year maybe that’s the way to go. I don’t want to touch Hitch, and Sutter/Tippet don’t really strike me as guys who are progressing with the league. Torts kind of reinvented himself, so who knows.
- flyer_nutter

Clearly a marquis coach is the solution. I mean look at the Capitals. Barry Trotz had major success. wait, he had NEVER WON a second round series.

Well there's Gerard Gallant he had ... uh, never won a series in his career.

Those guys were in the finals not because they cajoled their players to put out an effort. They had rosters of players who wanted to win.