Can Knight play one game as a Flyer before he's written off as a "useless Vandevelde type"? The amount of pro hockey scouts in here is amazing.
- Baxter27

The Vandevelde thing is a UND reference. You know he has been playing for the Phantoms for 2 years, right? It is pretty clear his "roll". He would be a poor long term replacement for Vorobyev though

My point is this looks to be another pre-deternined over reaction to a minor change in the line up. I didnt mind Vorobyev on the 4th but I havent even seen Knight yet besides a couple games in the AHL.
- Baxter27

Knight reminds me of another player...can't think of the name though. He was another mid-20's AHLer who'd had a couple short stints in the NHL and had a really strong camp, and made the team. A few weeks later, and it was apparent that he hadn't really become a different player, he just had a nice camp against partial NHL rosters. This was maybe 4-5 years ago.

If they want to see what Knight can bring, then fine. But I see this as another case of an AHL tweener (who, by the way, is a former UND player) who had a good camp, but who has had little to no success at the NHL level in his previous stints.

My fear is that he becomes a mainstay because he's a "consistent" player who plays "the right way."

Holy poop this place is in rare form.

Its great Vorobyev is a scratch. The kid IMO needs a mental break if not a physical one. One game in the pressbox isn't going to kill his development and ruin him forever like Konecny.

I’m not gonna bash you at all. I think most folks thought that if Coots or Patrick went down for any length of time, that Giroux would be moved back to center. That they didn’t, tells me that Patrick is likely close to returning.

Also when looking at Couturier’s production so far this season, keep in mind how often his shifts start in the D zone. It’s a ridiculously high percentage. Same goes for Provorov too.
- BiggE

Giroux stayed at LW even when Patrick was injured or struggling for the first three months of last season. Doesn't seem like he's going back in the middle under Hak.

To me, Vorobyev is a 3rd line NHL center. He is a rookie, needs experience to grow, and definitely needs to improve in the faceoff dot. Although, I think it is a little soon to scratch him. It won’t hurt him to spend a few games at most gaining that invaluable view from above.

As for Knight, I think this is a separate decision having nothing to do with Vorobyev. Before Knight’s injury, I had him ahead of Leir, Weise and Lehtera in the roster battles. He plays an energetic defensively sound 2 way game, can play center and both wings and the PK. He skates and battles. He fits well into Hak’s system. As a 12th or 13th guy on the 4th line, he looks good, very versatile. As for the comparisons to Chris Vandevelde. What? Well, really....just because they came from the same college. I hope you’re not going to snub everyone from North Dakota. They produced many good, some great players while Hak coached there.

He has remained strong without the puck, and made a few clever plays with it. I think, however, there were some signs of him falling back into some issues with his game that popped up as a rookie with the Phantoms last year.

I don't know if you listened to the first Broadcasters' Roundtable of the season on Flyers Radio 24/7 -- recorded right after Misha made the opening night roster and won the 3C job after a tremendous and consistent day in and day out camp and preseason. Jim Jackson briefly discussed the topic of there being some question marks about him last year that he seemed to address emphatically through his work in camp.

Personally, I'd rather he have stayed in the lineup, but it's not my call to make.
- bmeltzer

I don't mind him getting the odd game off, but if he's gonna be a regular healthy scratch or a 10 minute or less 4th liner he should be sent back to the AHL.

The Vandevelde thing is a UND reference. You know he has been playing for the Phantoms for 2 years, right? It is pretty clear his "roll". He would be a poor long term replacement for Vorobyev though
- YuenglingJagr

He's had 2 solid years with the Phantoms. By all indications a strong camp at as well. I have no issues with him getting an opportunity. Sounds like hes earned it.

I don't mind him getting the odd game off, but if he's gonna be a regular healthy scratch or a 10 minute or less 4th liner he should be sent back to the AHL.
- Feanor

Agree with this but I think hes still in competition for the 3rd line Center role. Injuries have muddied the waters and given additional opportunities to Weal and Laughton to steal it.

To me, Vorobyev is a 3rd line NHL center. He is a rookie, needs experience to grow, and definitely needs to improve in the faceoff dot. Although, I think it is a little soon to scratch him. It won’t hurt him to spend a few games at most gaining that invaluable view from above.

As for Knight, I think this is a separate decision having nothing to do with Vorobyev. Before Knight’s injury, I had him ahead of Leir, Weise and Lehtera in the roster battles. He plays an energetic defensively sound 2 way game, can play center and both wings and the PK. He skates and battles. He fits well into Hak’s system. As a 12th or 13th guy on the 4th line, he looks good, very versatile. As for the comparisons to Chris Vandevelde. What? Well, really....just because they came from the same college. I hope you’re not going to snub everyone from North Dakota. They produced many good, some great players while Hak coached there.
- NC Flyers Fan

Like TJ Oshie and Brett Hextall.

Holy poop this place is in rare form.

Its great Vorobyev is a scratch. The kid IMO needs a mental break if not a physical one. One game in the pressbox isn't going to kill his development and ruin him forever like Konecny.
- MBFlyerfan

lol

Last game, Giroux and Couturier received 1 offensive zone start.
- MJL

Yeah, that’s what I was probably thinking of, but that is only 1 game.

Exactly, and how can you work on those question marks, which he's clearly been motivated to do in the past, scratched? The NHL can be a developmental league. Prepare for growing pains, do not punish for them.
- Giroux_Is_God

If he sits for one game, I don’t think it’s an issue. If it becomes a pattern, than yeah, it is.

Giroux stayed at LW even when Patrick was injured or struggling for the first three months of last season. Doesn't seem like he's going back in the middle under Hak.
- Feanor

Good point. Honestly don’t think it will even be a consideration beyond this season with Vorobyev on the roster and Frost and Rubtsov in the pipeline.

If he sits for one game, I don’t think it’s an issue. If it becomes a pattern, than yeah, it is.
- BiggE

Agreed. Sitting for a game isn't gonna kill'em.

However, if he gets buried in the press box, then maybe send him back to LHV so he can actually play and accumulate more experience.

Holy poop this place is in rare form.

Its great Vorobyev is a scratch. The kid IMO needs a mental break if not a physical one. One game in the pressbox isn't going to kill his development and ruin him forever like Konecny.
- MBFlyerfan

When Hextall states he focuses on the character of players he drafts he actually means theyre all snow flakes that will melt if theyre not constantly given the benefit of the doubt.

Holy poop this place is in rare form.

Its great Vorobyev is a scratch. The kid IMO needs a mental break if not a physical one. One game in the pressbox isn't going to kill his development and ruin him forever like Konecny.
- MBFlyerfan

You new here? Come in, have a scotch. Wait til the Flyers give up a goal and the coach fails to call timeout, the fireworks will put July 4th to shame.

Agreed. Sitting for a game isn't gonna kill'em.

However, if he gets buried in the press box, then maybe send him back to LHV so he can actually play and accumulate more experience.
- johndewar

I don’t think that’s gonna happen. My guess is he sits one or two games and then comes back in. Of course with the luck this forward group is having, someone will probably get decapitated during warmup and he won’t even miss a game.

You new here? Come in, have a scotch. Wait til the Flyers give up a goal and the coach fails to call timeout, the fireworks will put July 4th to shame.
- BiggE

I don’t think that’s gonna happen. My guess is he sits one or two games and then comes back in. Of course with the luck this forward group is having, someone will probably get decapitated during warmup and he won’t even miss a game.
- BiggE

+1 on bench visit from Jim McCrossin

To me, Vorobyev is a 3rd line NHL center. He is a rookie, needs experience to grow, and definitely needs to improve in the faceoff dot. Although, I think it is a little soon to scratch him. It won’t hurt him to spend a few games at most gaining that invaluable view from above.

As for Knight, I think this is a separate decision having nothing to do with Vorobyev. Before Knight’s injury, I had him ahead of Leir, Weise and Lehtera in the roster battles. He plays an energetic defensively sound 2 way game, can play center and both wings and the PK. He skates and battles. He fits well into Hak’s system. As a 12th or 13th guy on the 4th line, he looks good, very versatile. As for the comparisons to Chris Vandevelde. What? Well, really....just because they came from the same college. I hope you’re not going to snub everyone from North Dakota. They produced many good, some great players while Hak coached there.
- NC Flyers Fan

The comparison to Chris VandeVelde is based on their careers and playing styles prior to them becoming members of the Philadelphia Flyers. I don't care where he went to school or played hockey as long as the coach does not favor him because of that past relationship at a much lower level of hockey.

When Hextall states he focuses on the character of players he drafts he actually means theyre all snow flakes that will melt if theyre not constantly given the benefit of the doubt.
- Baxter27

Yeah that is exactly what is happening.

Rookie struggles in his first few games in the top league in the whole world. Maybe is struggling with the language and it getting down on himself. A good coach will know when its time for a mental break. After all, even though Baxter27 sees the player way more than his own coach, I still think ill go with the coach's opinion.

I don’t think that’s gonna happen. My guess is he sits one or two games and then comes back in. Of course with the luck this forward group is having, someone will probably get decapitated during warmup and he won’t even miss a game.
- BiggE

Just like when Sanheim got called up mid season last year?

I'm just going to say it, I don't like Dave Hakstol as an NHL coach.

I think he is a good developmental coach, for the most part. When it comes to getting young men to work as part of a system and help them to refine their overall games, I think he does a good, not great, job.

But when it comes to other aspects of his coaching, I am left wanting. Beyond his goaltending choices and timeout usage, I do not think that he is the coach that will take this team to the next level. I feel that he overrelies (even for an NHL coach) on "safe" and "consistent" players in key situations based on how he feels about them as opposed to what players have the best skillsets for those situations. I feel that his lineup decisions also favor players that he is comfortable with as opposed to players who are unknown, which stifles the scratched players from being able to gain his trust. I know some players may be better in practice, but practice and game are two very different situations.

Again, this is how I feel about him. And I realize that the things I don't like about him can be attributed to all coaches, I simply feel that he is more guilty than others. And this doesn't have to do with the Vorobyov scratching, just made me realize that I really don't agree with a lot of his moves (though I understand them). I hope I'm wrong and that he leads this team to 18 consecutive Stanley Cups in the next 20 years. But I don't feel in my heart that he will.

To summarize: tldr

Giroux stayed at LW even when Patrick was injured or struggling for the first three months of last season. Doesn't seem like he's going back in the middle under Hak.
- Feanor

We had Filppula last season. We don’t anymore.

We had Filppula last season. We don’t anymore.
- SuperSchennBros

And we have Laughton playing well this year and Weal who they really want to give a chance.