I am sick of the media talking about stupid poop regarding the Nylander situation.

It has nothing to do with what Shanahan made. It has nothing to do with what Babcock made.

It is really simple. The salary cap makes it impossible for all the players on the team to squeeze the last drop out of the Leafs. The players have a choice... if they want to play on a team with a stacked forward group, and a long window it is going to cost you.

If they insist on that, one of them will have to go, at least.

Dubas and the Leafs have no choice. Apparently Nylander still thinks he is going to get 8+. If he won't back off of it, then trade him. Otherwise you lose Matthews or Marner or Kadri or Rielly AND you lose Gardiner. That is the reality. You cannot ice 12 minimum-salary players.
- Aetherial

Even if they do sign him, Nylander has to eventually get traded for help on defense anyway. The Leafs don't have anything else in their system that is of big enough value that they can afford to give up. Nylander is surplus. They scored 3 last night without him just fine. The PP is fine without him. He's the 4th, maybe even 5th best forward on the team.

The problem is, they kind of (frank)ed themselves a little bit with the Tavares signing. Nylander looks at Tavares, says to himself "He's a 30 goal, 80 point player getting 11 million a year. I can be a 30 goal, 80 point player in a year or two. Why aren't I making 11 million too?". And then when Nylander gets paid, Matthews and Marner also ask the same questions.

At the end of the day, the money will all be spent, it's just a matter of who you spend it on. They spent Nylander's money on Tavares and that's perfectly fine. But now, they have to take Nylander and the money he wants and give it to a legit top pairing defender to balance the team.

Yep. The choice is his.

He can go to Ottawa and make 8 million or make less and play on a good team. Time will tell what his decision is and what type of person he is.

I’ve turned down higher paying electrical jobs to work for myself, I’ve never looked back.
- Santo_44

if we ever needed an opinion from an "insider" to support our suspicions/beliefs... then yesterday or the day prior I heard Craig Button blather on about how Nylander would get 8x8 from him(Craig Button) in a heart beat.

that's why you aren't a GM anymore Craig.

fast forward or rewind to Brian Burke.
he paid Komisarek 4.5M a year because he was a free agent - which was entirely stupid - but it underwrites the point that RFAs don't get paid Free Agent money

period.

except by Chiarelli (and that should be self-explanatory)

Or maybe Babs uses Nylander as the C between Kap and Johnson after a PP.
- Santo_44

That's a bad idea because Nylander:

1. Not a good enough center yet.

2. Really tough match-up defensively which Kadri is way better suited for.

3. Nylander has more offensive talent than Kadri and is better served on the #1 PP.

Just read an article that Nylander could take a 1 year deal and have all three of the big three sit out next year.

Then I thought about it...if Nylander is that big of an ass Dubas would ship him to Carolina for whatever they are offering up.
- Santo_44

if as LeBrun says, Shanahan is frustrated... then look for a deal of Nylander out of town in the next 7-10 days...

if as LeBrun says, Shanahan is frustrated... then look for a deal of Nylander out of town in the next 7-10 days...
- BorjeFan4Ever

Really bad idea to trade Nylander in that situation. Hurts his value. Better off with a bridge deal (huge money for this year, upfront) and letting him put up huge numbers with Tavares and the #1 PP and THEN trade him and maximize your return.

If you rush a deal for Nylander, you end up getting half of what he's really worth. If Karlsson got Richard on a stick, what do you think you get for Nylander in a bad situation?

if as LeBrun says, Shanahan is frustrated... then look for a deal of Nylander out of town in the next 7-10 days...
- BorjeFan4Ever

I think he will end up signing...if I were to bet.

But either way Dubas will make an example out of Nylander. Either sign cheaper to win or be shipped out of town.

Even if they do sign him, Nylander has to eventually get traded for help on defense anyway. The Leafs don't have anything else in their system that is of big enough value that they can afford to give up. Nylander is surplus. They scored 3 last night without him just fine. The PP is fine without him. He's the 4th, maybe even 5th best forward on the team.

The problem is, they kind of (frank)ed themselves a little bit with the Tavares signing. Nylander looks at Tavares, says to himself "He's a 30 goal, 80 point player getting 11 million a year. I can be a 30 goal, 80 point player in a year or two. Why aren't I making 11 million too?". And then when Nylander gets paid, Matthews and Marner also ask the same questions.

At the end of the day, the money will all be spent, it's just a matter of who you spend it on. They spent Nylander's money on Tavares and that's perfectly fine. But now, they have to take Nylander and the money he wants and give it to a legit top pairing defender to balance the team.
- Unholy_Goalie

Except Tavares took less money to play here; he could've made more, including from the Islanders.

To me, Nylander is kind of the outside guy. I'm not even sure he came up for discussion when Tavares was being courted by the Leafs. We know Matthews was, I'm sure Marner was mentioned as a linemate, but it's possible that Nylander was not even specifically mentioned in the same breath.

I think the Leafs are better with him and I think they can fit all 4 under the cap, but Nylander is not mission critical to the Leafs long-term success now that Tavares is here.

Really bad idea to trade Nylander in that situation. Hurts his value. Better off with a bridge deal (huge money for this year, upfront) and letting him put up huge numbers with Tavares and the #1 PP and THEN trade him and maximize your return.

If you rush a deal for Nylander, you end up getting half of what he's really worth. If Karlsson got Richard on a stick, what do you think you get for Nylander in a bad situation?
- Unholy_Goalie

They have offers apparently. I doubt they are bad offers

I am sick of the media talking about stupid poop regarding the Nylander situation.

It has nothing to do with what Shanahan made. It has nothing to do with what Babcock made.

It is really simple. The salary cap makes it impossible for all the players on the team to squeeze the last drop out of the Leafs. The players have a choice... if they want to play on a team with a stacked forward group, and a long window it is going to cost you.

If they insist on that, one of them will have to go, at least.

Dubas and the Leafs have no choice. Apparently Nylander still thinks he is going to get 8+. If he won't back off of it, then trade him. Otherwise you lose Matthews or Marner or Kadri or Rielly AND you lose Gardiner. That is the reality. You cannot ice 12 minimum-salary players.
- Aetherial

It really does seem like he's insisting on too much. Considering Shanny's little speech, they obviously want him to consider whether getting max $ is more important to him than remaining on a competitive team. If this really is what's going on, (frank) him. He's at best our 4th most valuable forward, probably 6th most valuable player at this point (JT, AM, MM, MR, FA, all ahead of him and maybe throw in NK too).

Except Tavares took less money to play here; he could've made more, including from the Islanders.

To me, Nylander is kind of the outside guy. I'm not even sure he came up for discussion when Tavares was being courted by the Leafs. We know Matthews was, I'm sure Marner was mentioned as a linemate, but it's possible that Nylander was not even specifically mentioned in the same breath.

I think the Leafs are better with him and I think they can fit all 4 under the cap, but Nylander is not mission critical to the Leafs long-term success now that Tavares is here.
- gravyface

I think the "more" money Tavares could have taken is a little overstated. Just fits the narrative of him being the hometown boy. If he really wanted to take a discount, he could have taken 10 or 9. The Leafs had to up their offer from 10 to 11 to put him over the edge. Tavares didn't really take that big of a haircut. I mean, how many 80 point players are making 11 million a year? Not many. Kucherov just scored 100 and he's making less than 10.

The Leafs can fit Nylander but they can't fit Nylander AND be a balanced team and have a top pairing, legit RHD. They have to decide what's more important; Nylander for a top pairing RHD. And the answer is obvious and simple; the top pair RHD.

Really bad idea to trade Nylander in that situation. Hurts his value. Better off with a bridge deal (huge money for this year, upfront) and letting him put up huge numbers with Tavares and the #1 PP and THEN trade him and maximize your return.

If you rush a deal for Nylander, you end up getting half of what he's really worth. If Karlsson got Richard on a stick, what do you think you get for Nylander in a bad situation?
- Unholy_Goalie

again, missing the point.

Nylander is an RFA - who has one point of leverage and only one. Sit out. Hurts his value.. .and hurts his abiltity to sign an contract with anyone. If he sits the entire year - he resumes the RFA position next year.
There's no chance that Dubas/Shanahan allow all three guys to be in that situation at the same time - THAT would be poor management.

Read the Shanahan comments for what they are - "we want Nylander at the right price"... not willing - here's your new HighSierra travel bag
AND they will get good value for him because other teams are trading for potential - which they already recognize - because the media hacks can't have both ways... he can't be worth 8 to the Leafs - and they not be worth a good return to another team

They have offers apparently. I doubt they are bad offers
- Santo_44

Dougie Hamilton for Nylander. All day, every day.

I think he will end up signing...if I were to bet.

But either way Dubas will make an example out of Nylander. Either sign cheaper to win or be shipped out of town.
- Santo_44

exactly my point - yup

again, missing the point.

Nylander is an RFA - who has one point of leverage and only one. Sit out. Hurts his value.. .and hurts his abiltity to sign an contract with anyone. If he sits the entire year - he resumes the RFA position next year.
There's no chance that Dubas/Shanahan allow all three guys to be in that situation at the same time - THAT would be poor management.

Read the Shanahan comments for what they are - "we want Nylander at the right price"... not willing - here's your new HighSierra travel bag
AND they will get good value for him because other teams are trading for potential - which they already recognize - because the media hacks can't have both ways... he can't be worth 8 to the Leafs - and they not be worth a good return to another team
- BorjeFan4Ever

How often do contract holdouts get traded and get fair value? A guy holding out for more money often gets looked at like a problem to deal with character issues etc.

Teams pay for potential but they pay even more for proven results. Nylander, the 20 goal 60 point, contract hold out does not get you as much as Nylander with 25-30 goals, 75 points and a bridge deal.

Dougie Hamilton for Nylander. All day, every day.
- Unholy_Goalie

I doubt that is the offer...

Highest it is is probably Pesce plus a pick...because Nylander is a better player than Pesce but he is a near perfect fit for the Leafs. But we don’t want a Hall for Larson repeat.

How often do contract holdouts get traded and get fair value? A guy holding out for more money often gets looked at like a problem to deal with character issues etc.

Teams pay for potential but they pay even more for proven results. Nylander, the 20 goal 60 point, contract hold out does not get you as much as Nylander with 25-30 goals, 75 points and a bridge deal.
- Unholy_Goalie

You ask that question but do you even know any high end players that got traded as a holdout? Doubt it. There hasn’t been any in modern day NHL.

You are just making an assumption here

I doubt that is the offer...

Highest it is is probably Pesce plus a pick...because Nylander is a better player than Pesce but he is a near perfect fit for the Leafs. But we don’t want a Hall for Larson repeat.
- Santo_44

Pesce is a fine defender but Nylander is worth way more than that. They need a Hamilton in return. Even if they need to add, whatever, but that's what they need; top pair RHD, same age range as Nylander.

You ask that question but do you even know any high end players that got traded as a holdout? Doubt it. There hasn’t been any in modern day NHL.

You are just making an assumption here
- Santo_44

It's a very safe assumption. Nylander today, is worth a fair amount. But Nylander with another great (better than last year) season under his belt and a contract is worth even more. It's just obvious.

I think the "more" money Tavares could have taken is a little overstated. Just fits the narrative of him being the hometown boy. If he really wanted to take a discount, he could have taken 10 or 9. The Leafs had to up their offer from 10 to 11 to put him over the edge. Tavares didn't really take that big of a haircut. I mean, how many 80 point players are making 11 million a year? Not many. Kucherov just scored 100 and he's making less than 10.

The Leafs can fit Nylander but they can't fit Nylander AND be a balanced team and have a top pairing, legit RHD. They have to decide what's more important; Nylander for a top pairing RHD. And the answer is obvious and simple; the top pair RHD.
- Unholy_Goalie

I blame Chiarelli and the stupid Draisatl contract.

Pesce is a fine defender but Nylander is worth way more than that. They need a Hamilton in return. Even if they need to add, whatever, but that's what they need; top pair RHD, same age range as Nylander.
- Unholy_Goalie

Why did two teams give up on Dougie though?

I think the "more" money Tavares could have taken is a little overstated. Just fits the narrative of him being the hometown boy. If he really wanted to take a discount, he could have taken 10 or 9. The Leafs had to up their offer from 10 to 11 to put him over the edge. Tavares didn't really take that big of a haircut. I mean, how many 80 point players are making 11 million a year? Not many. Kucherov just scored 100 and he's making less than 10.

The Leafs can fit Nylander but they can't fit Nylander AND be a balanced team and have a top pairing, legit RHD. They have to decide what's more important; Nylander for a top pairing RHD. And the answer is obvious and simple; the top pair RHD.
- Unholy_Goalie

Oilers are still insisting McDavid took a discount by giving back half a milly per year, which can't even get you one league minimum player lol. Gee Connor thanks, that's definitely gonna make our team more competitive, oops, we just gave that extra money to Russel. Our bad... But really, how is it that 12.5m is a discount?

So if people want to say JT took a discount by accepting 11m when SJ supposedly was offering a couple mil more.... I'd agree.

Why did two teams give up on Dougie though?
- gravyface

Usually, I'd have the same question but with Babcock behind the bench, I'm less worried than I would be. Young players can have ups and downs on and off the ice. The Bruins got (frank) all for Seguin but he's still scoring like a machine in Dallas. Was it worth it? Doubt it.

If there were more options out there, I'd be more willing to play the field but top pairing RHD are so incredibly rare that if one is even half available, you have to go get him and figure it out.

Oilers are still insisting McDavid took a discount by giving back half a milly per year, which can't even get you one league minimum player lol. Gee Conner thanks, that's definitely gonna make our team more competitive, oops, we just gave that extra money to Russel. Our bad... But really, how is it that 12.5m is a discount?

So if people want to say JT took a discount by accepting 11m when SJ supposedly was offering a couple mil more.... I'd agree.
- Thecakeisalie

I'd guess that San Jose offer was most likely a last minute overpayment to try and sway him with cash when they realized they were losing the bidding war. I doubt San Jose walked up on the first offer and threw 13 million at him.

Just read an article that Nylander could take a 1 year deal and have all three of the big three sit out next year.

Then I thought about it...if Nylander is that big of an ass Dubas would ship him to Carolina for whatever they are offering up.
- Santo_44

Absolutely. If he is THAT big of an ass, I doubt we want him on the team.

Matthews is going to get that 12.5 or 13 though, or he will be offer-sheeted. I think the Leafs know that they need to open the vault for him.

Oilers are still insisting McDavid took a discount by giving back half a milly per year, which can't even get you one league minimum player lol. Gee Conner thanks, that's definitely gonna make our team more competitive, oops, we just gave that extra money to Russel. Our bad... But really, how is it that 12.5m is a discount?

So if people want to say JT took a discount by accepting 11m when SJ supposedly was offering a couple mil more.... I'd agree.
- Thecakeisalie

Islanders offered 8 years, AAV $11.25M I believe.

Heard Sharks were "north of $13M a year", but I'm not sure on term.

Nylander is a very good player, but like all scoring wingers, they're never going to compete with centers, so he needs to really special to be making north of 8M a year.

7.5M is the right number for Nylander.