Pretty cool interview with Dubas on the Athletic...it’s long but I’ll share this small portion. Kind of shuts up UG and a lot of fans who seems to think the Leafs should of traded their UFA’s. Puts it into a team perspective and not a silly fans perspective.


I don’t like the term “own rentals.” I don’t understand that. It doesn’t make sense to me. But how do you look at when you have players who are going to be unrestricted free agent going into that year? You can potentially move them and get an asset, but it hurts your roster. How do you see that scenario?

So it’s so fascinating because you hear all the time, like whether it’s experts or people will say, “Well, how can you let that person walk away for nothing?” But the reality is that you can get a draft pick or get something back, but if you do that in the season — and I think the key thing that gets lost when people use that logic that I don’t like and I think they miss — is that if you trade that player that’s a pending unrestricted free agent, you’re missing out on that player’s contribution and production from whatever time you trade them to whatever time your team ends. It’s always easy to, I think, use a little bit of revisionist history on players like that.

I wasn’t here (as the GM), but I hear it about the UFAs that we let walk away this year. I was here with Lou (Lamoriello) at the time. But I really don’t understand the logic. Because if you move all those guys for draft picks then you don’t have them for the end of the season. It’s easy to sit and say when your team doesn’t win or you don’t win a playoff round, “Well, jeez, they would’ve made the playoffs and lost in the first round anyway.” And so I get why people look at it that way, but I really think that when you say, “Well, you let him go for nothing.” Well, it’s not nothing. If you want to look at it for the most extreme example, from the trade deadline till the end of the season, you still got production, you still got output from that player. What draft pick level do you need, in terms of valuation, to make up for that production? If a team wins, and a team goes to the conference final or Stanley Cup final, that never comes up. But it’s when you don’t reach expectations — that gets used, not trading your pending free agents, gets used as a condemnation of your logic and your team-building and your management. And I think it should just go back to your overall management philosophy which is, why did the team miss the playoffs? Or why didn’t the team win a round? That’s a microcosm of a larger discussion, I think.

Well, that was my argument with Mirtle when it actually came to someone like James van Riemsdyk. You’re trying to win a Cup, so why would you take off James van Riemsdyk for a pick when you’re trying to win a Cup? It doesn’t jive, which I guess is what you’re saying.

I think that’s my greatest — it’s my only time when I ever, ever say and I hate when people say this, but it’s the only time when I find people outside the team really don’t understand the actual concept of the team. It’s easy to look at pure valuation and say, “OK, well, starting next year they’re going to get zero from UFA X.” But they don’t ever take account into the effect that if we went in on the trade deadline and deleted all of those players from our lineup, then you have to come into work every day and you’re responsible and you’re telling the rest of this group that we’re trying to win hockey games, but you’ve just deleted players of significant value to your team for futures when you’re setting your team record for most wins and points and the like and you’re battling for home-ice advantage in a very tough position. My question back to whoever would be how would you handle that?

What do you say?

It’s easy to sit from the periphery and just say, “Well you should get as much value (as you can) because in the future those people aren’t going to be contributing to your program.” But I think it inflates the values of draft picks and futures and it completely is ignorant of the day-to-day effect. But most importantly, to make it purely objective, it ignores what the value of the production of those players in the remaining time from the time you were supposedly going to trade them through the end of the year. Using that logic, the Washington Capitals last year would have traded John Carlson. And then they won the Stanley Cup and nobody seems to care. I guess you have to win. That’s the end-point
- Santo_44

Basically a huge (frank) YOU to UG.

Such a strange strange day....

Carrick traded off then Montreal sends Valiev away to Calgary too Guess he was not as good and going to come back to haunt us as some proclaimed

Lots of interesting things going on with waivers this year so far, and have a feeling not going to be done anytime soon.
- Roadrunner75

Strange day that they kept possibly the weakest of 3 goalies as the back-up. Could become a very long, heavy year for Andersen again. That's unfortunate.

Nope. They had little chance of beating Boston and Tampa Bay last year. They let valuable UFAs walk for nothing, they had internal, younger, better replacements who would have benefited from the extra ice-time (and played better anyway). This was a lot of words with little substance.
- Unholy_Goalie

Oh hey, it’s the “expert.”

Basically a huge (frank) YOU to UG.
- Steven_Seagull

I just sent a link to the athletic of this page..

Im sure they'll love their material that they charge for being spread for free on a hockey blog site


I didn't actually.. but i wonder about the legality of this.

I just sent a link to the athletic of this page..

Im sure they'll love their material that they charge for being spread for free on a hockey blog site


I didn't actually.. but i wonder about the legality of this.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Hockey roomer site to you.


Also... *goes into hiding*

Hockey roomer site to you.


Also... *goes into hiding*
- Steven_Seagull

More like the Onion of hockey rumour sites..

More like the Onion of hockey rumour sites..
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Except not intentionally funny.

Oh hey, it’s the “expert.”
- Steven_Seagull

St. Louis knew they didn't have a real chance so they traded Stastny. That pick could have been Sandin. They traded up to get Bokk. Bottom line, Stastny didn't come back and they got something for it, instead of fighting for 8th and getting their ass kicked in the 1st round.

The Leafs, on the other hand, already had a playoff spot locked up. Trading JVR and Bozak wouldn't have made a difference against Boston. It would have just opened up more ice time for Kapanen, Johnsson, Leivo, Gauthier etc. and other young guys who have spots on the team this year. And given them extra picks to load up the system with low cost, ELC players that they're going to need in a few years when they're up against the cap ceiling. Sell high, buy low.

Strange day that they kept possibly the weakest of 3 goalies as the back-up. Could become a very long, heavy year for Andersen again. That's unfortunate.
- Unholy_Goalie

Also strange that you don’t agree with Leafs management. Surprising indeed.

Except not intentionally funny.
- Steven_Seagull

Still funny tho lol...

St. Louis knew they didn't have a real chance so they traded Stastny. That pick could have been Sandin. They traded up to get Bokk. Bottom line, Stastny didn't come back and they got something for it, instead of fighting for 8th and getting their ass kicked in the 1st round.

The Leafs, on the other hand, already had a playoff spot locked up. Trading JVR and Bozak wouldn't have made a difference against Boston. It would have just opened up more ice time for Kapanen, Johnsson, Leivo, Gauthier etc. and other young guys who have spots on the team this year. And given them extra picks to load up the system with low cost, ELC players that they're going to need in a few years when they're up against the cap ceiling. Sell high, buy low.
- Unholy_Goalie

Also strange that you don’t agree with Leafs management. Surprising indeed.
- shack67

I actually really like Dubas and Babcock and actually agree with a lot of things they do but anybody who thinks they're 100% perfect or 100% right just because they're the GM / head coach is being silly. GMs and coaches will sometimes make mistakes and sometimes overestimate what their team can do because of subjectivity, bias or ego.

I actually really like Dubas and Babcock and actually agree with a lot of things they do but anybody who thinks they're 100% perfect or 100% right just because they're the GM / head coach is being silly. GMs and coaches will sometimes make mistakes and sometimes overestimate what their team can do because of subjectivity, bias or ego.
- Unholy_Goalie

But not you though.

is the prediction page up yet?

link please....

Nope. They had little chance of beating Boston and Tampa Bay last year. They let valuable UFAs walk for nothing, they had internal, younger, better replacements who would have benefited from the extra ice-time (and played better anyway) and the playoff spot was already guaranteed. This was a lot of words with little substance.
- Unholy_Goalie

You are exactly the type of fans Dubas is talking about here. Thanks for providing an example I forgot that part

I just sent a link to the athletic of this page..

Im sure they'll love their material that they charge for being spread for free on a hockey blog site


I didn't actually.. but i wonder about the legality of this.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

You mean posting 3 out of 10-15 questions?

Go to their website you can read 20% of their article for free. Nothing wrong with sharing tidbits of an article...they do it themselves to gauge interest.

You mean posting 3 out of 10-15 questions?

Go to their website you can read 20% of their article for free. Nothing wrong with sharing tidbits of an article...they do it themselves to gauge interest.
- Santo_44

Hmm...

I might narc on you anyways.. just to see what happens.

You are exactly the type of fans Dubas is talking about here. Thanks for providing an example I forgot that part
- Santo_44

And every year a bunch of GMs make the same mistakes because they think their team is better than it really is. Last year, that was the Leafs by overpaying for a useless Plekanec and keeping a bunch of UFAs that all walked away for nothing and the result was the same; 1st round exit.

And every year a bunch of GMs make the same mistakes because they think their team is better than it really is. Last year, that was the Leafs by overpaying for a useless Plekanec and keeping a bunch of UFAs that all walked away for nothing and the result was the same; 1st round exit.
- Unholy_Goalie

Hindsight is always 20/20

And every year a bunch of GMs make the same mistakes because they think their team is better than it really is. Last year, that was the Leafs by overpaying for a useless Plekanec and keeping a bunch of UFAs that all walked away for nothing and the result was the same; 1st round exit.
- Unholy_Goalie

So who should we trade at the deadline this year?

Hindsight is always 20/20
- Steven_Seagull

Said it then, saying it now.

And every year a bunch of GMs make the same mistakes because they think their team is better than it really is. Last year, that was the Leafs by overpaying for a useless Plekanec and keeping a bunch of UFAs that all walked away for nothing and the result was the same; 1st round exit.
- Unholy_Goalie

You are a Leafs anti-fan. You never have a good thing to say about the team or the management. Hater.

So who should we trade at the deadline this year?
- shack67

Don't know yet. But it depends how the team looks but if they are in a distant 3rd place like they were last year, Gardiner (if no extension under 6.5 can be agreed upon and Dermott is playing well) and Hainsey should be on the block. If they're in 2nd or really close 3rd, maybe they have a better chance to beat Boston with Tavares but beating Tampa Bay in the next round would still be a daunting task without major upgrades on defense.

And every year a bunch of GMs make the same mistakes because they think their team is better than it really is. Last year, that was the Leafs by overpaying for a useless Plekanec and keeping a bunch of UFAs that all walked away for nothing and the result was the same; 1st round exit.
- Unholy_Goalie

Again. Making more of an example.

Your either oblivious or just can’t read.

But keep it coming this is aweome

So who should we trade at the deadline this year?
- shack67

Leafs have to be 1st in wins, 1st in ROW, 1st in GF, 1st in GA, 1st in Shots for, 1st in Shots against, 1st in PP, 1st in PK, and have to have 8 of the top 5 point scorers. If not, then trade all UFAs because they aren’t good enough.