That may have been the worst Leafs game I have ever watched. Although, to be fair, it wasn't a "Leafs" game.

Uggie can go frank himself. MakeaSavey has earned the job.
- Atomic Wedgie

Just curious Wedgie - what were the Leafs charging for tickets to that game? From the lineup they dressed for a home game - it should have been called fan appreciation night.

I went on gamecentre and looked at the game roster. All leafs healthy that could be the marlies roster.

I disagree
- Symba007

Symba you should make a post with Dopps on the Leafs-Sens forum.

He's old. He had a career year and still only play 18 games when he should have been playing at least 25 if not 30. He needs to be replaced.
- Unholy_Goalie

Sparks was a puke sandwich tonight, despite the lineup. Anyone that thinks he earned a job after the last two performances needs meds and a shrink.

Thats kinda a lot..

I wouldn't be surprised if the Leafs want to see what they look like with Borgman, Rosen, and Oz all playing before they start subbing back in guys who they know what they are.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Might as well leave out Zaitsev then, maybe Hainsey.

He said he hasn’t earned a spot.....that’s it.

Don’t pay too much attention to what players/coaches say to the media it’s mostly bs. As fans we know jack poop about what really goes on in the room
- Santo_44

It would be very dumb if Dermott isn’t in the starting line up if healthy. The guy was great for the Leafs and Marlies last year which is a way bigger and better sample size then 3 preseason games that everyone is getting over excited about Rosen for.

I think the point with Dermott is he felt like he made it. Came into camp and just is there, not pushing for the job. Babs sayin what he did I think was to light a fire under his ass. Then he got hurt.

The defence could be up for grabs really and if Dermott isnt ready and back he will go down. That simple.

The top four are locked. Meaning 3 or 4 spots if we carry 7 or 8, which is tied to Nylander signing.

So 3-4 of Dermott, Holl, Oz, Rosen,Borgman, Carrick

At this point Holl and Carrick appear to be odd man out if they run 8. If they run 7 think Borg is going down too.

Only way that changes is if Dermott is out due to injury.

In net Babs loves the incumbent. Yes he should play more games AND its been said they would like to shave a few games off Andersen’s workload.

Sparks was supposed to come in and take this job. He’s been brutal. Not the showing or camp he wanted. That said with what he has shown before last season there is a bit of hope, and he has trade value also. Looking at it he pans out ss a servicable nhl backup. I dont see him being a solid starter. Down the road ot looks like that replacement is Woll. More reason to trade him and not lose him for nothing. We have a bit of a goalie glut as is.

Pickard is the real wild card in this. Posted excellent Ahl numbers, has nhl experience, has looked good in camp, and can go stretches of games. Seems more ideal in fit, and his play style which was noted more closely aligns with Andersen’s too. Like Sparks has to clear waivers, but there were no takers earlier when it was reported Dubas shopped him.

Babs will want McBackup. Will he chance Sparks? Or be more comfortable with Pickard if pressed to take one of the two younger goalies?

Could see McBackup to Marlies to help the young netminder there, and Pickard up. That said I think for this year McBackup is Babs guy for one more season. I think Sparks is more likely to be claimed, and is the one therefore traded.

It would be very dumb if Dermott isn’t in the starting line up if healthy. The guy was great for the Leafs and Marlies last year which is a way bigger and better sample size then 3 preseason games that everyone is getting over excited about Rosen for.
- ClarksonDavid

I agree - especially on Dermott - he was a very nice addition last year and his spot is guaranteed imo. Oz or Holl would be the likely candidates for the third pairing RHD. Can't see Borgman or Rosen making the team to sit in the pressbox regularly - they need to play so sending them to the AHL for more experience would make sense.

I agree - especially on Dermott - he was a very nice addition last year and his spot is guaranteed imo. Oz or Holl would be the likely candidates for the third pairing RHD. Can't see Borgman or Rosen making the team to sit in the pressbox regularly - they need to play so sending them to the AHL for more experience would make sense.
- winsix

Yeah Dermott is going to be a massive part of this D if it’s going to be a lot better this year. I honestly think Rosen makes the team and struggles pretty quickly to be anything more then a 6/7. Dermott was Arguably the third best dman for the leafs at the end of the season.

I think the point with Dermott is he felt like he made it. Came into camp and just is there, not pushing for the job. Babs sayin what he did I think was to light a fire under his ass. Then he got hurt.

The defence could be up for grabs really and if Dermott isnt ready and back he will go down. That simple.

The top four are locked. Meaning 3 or 4 spots if we carry 7 or 8, which is tied to Nylander signing.

So 3-4 of Dermott, Holl, Oz, Rosen,Borgman, Carrick

At this point Holl and Carrick appear to be odd man out if they run 8. If they run 7 think Borg is going down too.

Only way that changes is if Dermott is out due to injury.

In net Babs loves the incumbent. Yes he should play more games AND its been said they would like to shave a few games off Andersen’s workload.

Sparks was supposed to come in and take this job. He’s been brutal. Not the showing or camp he wanted. That said with what he has shown before last season there is a bit of hope, and he has trade value also. Looking at it he pans out ss a servicable nhl backup. I dont see him being a solid starter. Down the road ot looks like that replacement is Woll. More reason to trade him and not lose him for nothing. We have a bit of a goalie glut as is.

Pickard is the real wild card in this. Posted excellent Ahl numbers, has nhl experience, has looked good in camp, and can go stretches of games. Seems more ideal in fit, and his play style which was noted more closely aligns with Andersen’s too. Like Sparks has to clear waivers, but there were no takers earlier when it was reported Dubas shopped him.

Babs will want McBackup. Will he chance Sparks? Or be more comfortable with Pickard if pressed to take one of the two younger goalies?

Could see McBackup to Marlies to help the young netminder there, and Pickard up. That said I think for this year McBackup is Babs guy for one more season. I think Sparks is more likely to be claimed, and is the one therefore traded.
- Roadrunner75

good analysis

Meh Pickard has played just as good...
- Santo_44

Not at all.
Its mcbackup.

He's old. He had a career year and still only play 18 games when he should have been playing at least 25 if not 30. He needs to be replaced.
- Unholy_Goalie

With a trusted backup that babs likes he still played andersen 60 plus games. With someone like sparks or pickard, hed playing andersen 70 games.

With a trusted backup that babs likes he still played andersen 60 plus games. With someone like sparks or pickard, hed playing andersen 70 games.
- Fakepartofme

Exactly

I would think that the odds of both AHL champion goalies sliding through waivers without getting claimed would be slim....Sparkes has earned a trade due to his time with the organization if it's decided that he won't be backup this season...Pickard was a waiver pickup...McBackup has 1 year left on his contract...interesting times ahead for our goalies...somethings gotta give

With a trusted backup that babs likes he still played andersen 60 plus games. With someone like sparks or pickard, hed playing andersen 70 games.
- Fakepartofme

So get somebody who isn't old, doesn't suck and is trusted by Babcock to play 25+ games.

I would think that the odds of both AHL champion goalies sliding through waivers without getting claimed would be slim....Sparkes has earned a trade due to his time with the organization if it's decided that he won't be backup this season...Pickard was a waiver pickup...McBackup has 1 year left on his contract...interesting times ahead for our goalies...somethings gotta give
- jimi james

2000-01 Dwayne Roloson Worcester IceCats
2001-02 Martin Prusek Grand Rapids Griffins
2002-03 Marc Lamothe Grand Rapids Griffins
2003-04 Jason Labarbera Hartford Wolf Pack
2004-05 Ryan Miller Rochester Americans
2005-06 Dany Sabourin Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins
2006-07 Jason Labarbera Manchester Monarchs
2007-08 Michael Leighton Albany River Rats
2008-09 Cory Schneider Manitoba Moose
2009-10 Jonathan Bernier Manchester Monarchs
2010-11 Brad Thiessen Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins
2011-12 Yann Danis Oklahoma City Barons
2012-13 Niklas Svedberg Providence Bruins
2013-14 Jake Allen Chicago Wolves
2014-15 Matt Murray Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins
2015-16 Peter Budaj Ontario Reign
2016-17 Troy Grosenick San Jose Barracuda

How many NHL goalies are on that list?

How many are good ones?

Does Sparks look like he's going to be one of the good ones?

At this rate, if Sparks isn't good enough to be the back-up, I doubt a team will claim him because that's the only reason they'd claim him unless they really, really cared about their AHL team having a good starter.

To me, he's Jason LaBarbera at best.

Vegas signs Theodore to a 7-year contract with a cap hit of $5.2million.



Which RFA will sign last? Nylander or Ritchie?

So get somebody who isn't old, doesn't suck and is trusted by Babcock to play 25+ games.
- Unholy_Goalie

He should be fine for one more season, I doubt they sign him after that.

He should be fine for one more season, I doubt they sign him after that.
- 13sundin13

He played 18 games last year despite playing the best hockey of his life. If that's not enough to get 25-30 games, no, he's not fine. The Leafs need a back-up who can play 25-30 games so Andersen doesn't get burned out again.

He played 18 games last year despite playing the best hockey of his life. If that's not enough to get 25-30 games, no, he's not fine.
- Unholy_Goalie

Just because he played 18 doesn't mean he couldn't have played more, they just planned the year that way with the coaching staff and sports medicine team based on the schedule. It was really more Andersen wanting to play more than the team not thinking Mac was good enough. We all saw what Babcock did with Enroth so since they've gone two off seasons without trading for a goalie, they think he can do the job. Mac will be fine for one more year, and if not, its a long year and they can make a move whenever they want. I'd take Mac over any UFA goalie right now.

He played 18 games last year despite playing the best hockey of his life. If that's not enough to get 25-30 games, no, he's not fine. The Leafs need a back-up who can play 25-30 games so Andersen doesn't get burned out again.
- Unholy_Goalie

So is it really McBackup not being capable of playing more games (considering how good he was last year...) or is it Babcock just not wanting to play him more? And is that because Babs honestly didn't think McBackup capable of more, or just cause he thought Andersen could handle the load?

What makes you so certain that if we went and got some other goalie that Babcock would play them more than he would McBackup?

Seems to me your wish for Andersen to play less games might be more a Babcock problem than a backup goalie problem. I'm not advocating Andersen playing so many games, just that it seems what Babs wants, and it's just an assumption on your part that it is because he doesn't trust Mac.

Besides, haven't you shown big lists of shots against in an argument that Andersen wasn't simply playing too many games, but facing too many shots? So maybe once again, the problem isn't just our backup tender, but simply that we need team defense to improve so Andersen doesn't face so many shots?

Just because he played 18 doesn't mean he couldn't have played more, they just planned the year that way with the coaching staff and sports medicine team based on the schedule. It was really more Andersen wanting to play more than the team not thinking Mac was good enough. We all saw what Babcock did with Enroth so since they've gone two off seasons without trading for a goalie, they think he can do the job. Mac will be fine for one more year, and if not, its a long year and they can make a move whenever they want. I'd take Mac over any UFA goalie right now.
- 13sundin13

McElhinney had the stats to justify being played more but didn't. That says Babcock either doesn't trust him to play more games or he, and his entire staff, are idiots and decided to overwork Andersen. Andersen was poop down the stretch and poop the first half of the Boston series. At least a small, if not a large, portion of that was fatigue be it physical or mental from having to constantly bail the Leafs out and routinely facing 30-35+ shots a game.

Again, McElhinney had a career year, the odds of that happening again are slim to none and he still wasn't trusted enough to play more games. If they insist on running Andersen into the ground, they're being stupid and making a huge mistake.

So is it really McBackup not being capable of playing more games (considering how good he was last year...) or is it Babcock just not wanting to play him more? And is that because Babs honestly didn't think McBackup capable of more, or just cause he thought Andersen could handle the load?
- Thecakeisalie

Either way, it's bad judgement or bad decision making. Andersen clearly could not handle facing that many shots as his play declined at the end of the year. It's just a bad idea to over work your starter like that. If he doesn't trust McElhinney, get another back-up he can trust. Simple.

What makes you so certain that if we went and got some other goalie that Babcock would play them more than he would McBackup?

Get one he can trust if that's the problem. Sparks isn't the guy. Maybe Pickard is. McElhinney playing his mind out last year wasn't enough to get more than 18 games. Find somebody who can.

Seems to me your wish for Andersen to play less games might be more a Babcock problem than a backup goalie problem. I'm not advocating Andersen playing so many games, just that it seems what Babs wants, and it's just an assumption on your part that it is because he doesn't trust Mac.

If it's Babcock, he's being stupid. That's where the GM steps in and says, here's a better back-up, go play him because the starter is getting overworked. It must be he doesn't trust him because if he did, he had the numbers to play more games and yet he didn't.

Besides, haven't you shown big lists of shots against in an argument that Andersen wasn't simply playing too many games, but facing too many shots? So maybe once again, the problem isn't just our backup tender, but simply that we need team defense to improve so Andersen doesn't face so many shots?

It definitely is a factor that the defense and the team in general gives up too many shots but what's easier to acquire; a top pairing RHD, another top four defensive defender and capable bottom pairing defenders OR a back-up goalie?

The problem of giving up too many shots and chances definitely needs to be fixed but until that issue is fixed, it's a lot easier just to get a better back-up and play him 25-30 times so Andersen doesn't get run into the ground by the end of the year.

McElhinney had the stats to justify being played more but didn't. That says Babcock either doesn't trust him to play more games or he, and his entire staff, are idiots and decided to overwork Andersen. Andersen was poop down the stretch and poop the first half of the Boston series. At least a small, if not a large, portion of that was fatigue be it physical or mental from having to constantly bail the Leafs out and routinely facing 30-35+ shots a game.

Again, McElhinney had a career year, the odds of that happening again are slim to none and he still wasn't trusted enough to play more games. If they insist on running Andersen into the ground, they're being stupid and making a huge mistake.
- Unholy_Goalie

They clearly said it many times cause the press asked a lot. They didn't have a lot of back to backs and the sports science team, along with the coaching staff, planned the entire year and stuck to it. Plus, Andersen likes to play a lot.

I wouldn't mind if they played Andersen less personally, but whether it's Mac or another UFA backup goalie, I don't see them changing games played anyways. It's not about who was backing up, it was about how much can they safely get out of their #1 and the team decided what they did. If that team decides to give Andersen more rest then the backup plays more.

Its not about Mac being old and not being able to play more, it's about how the team decides to play Andersen.

They clearly said it many times cause the press asked a lot. They didn't have a lot of back to backs and the sports science team, along with the coaching staff, planned the entire year and stuck to it. Plus, Andersen likes to play a lot.
- 13sundin13

I don't give a poop what they planned for, it didn't work. If it didn't work, don't do it again expecting a different result. Andersen might say he wants to play but it doesn't mean he should be. He was overworked, whether it was physically or mentally or both. Vasilevskiy faced fewer shots and openly admitted he was out of gas at the end of the season but they were fighting for 1st and their back-up sucked. It's unlikely Andersen wasn't at least as tired as Vasilevskiy, if not more so considering Andersen ended up facing more shots.

I wouldn't mind if they played Andersen less personally, but whether it's Mac or another UFA backup goalie, I don't see them changing games played anyways. It's not about who was backing up, it was about how much can they safely get out of their #1 and the team decided what they did. If that team decides to give Andersen more rest then the backup plays more.

Its not about Mac being old and not being able to play more, it's about how the team decides to play Andersen.

There's no reason Andersen should play any back-to-back games (only 12 this year) nor should he play against any of the bottom 10 teams (after New Year) in the league. That should have him on the bench for at least 25 if not 30 games.

Like I said 10 times, McElhinney is old, he has no future with the team and he just had a career year. The likelihood of him being as good as he was last year is low. That means he plays 18 or FEWER games. We need a guy who plays MORE than 18 games and it's not likely to be McElhinney therefore, get a guy who can. And if they decide to run Andersen into the ground again, they're just being stupid.