TSN: Matt Duchene says Zack Smith being waived today "is a kick in the balls for us in this locker room"
- walleyeb1

Hell, I would trade for both of them, but of course Stan doesn’t have The smarts to get it done. I don’t know about any of you but I think both of those guys would be a shot in the arm, I am one that’s not ready for tanking and no playoffs. I want playoffs this year.

Justin, any word on the lines tonight?

I would like to see Kahun wiith Toews and Cat. IMO, he had a really good game on Friday.

ROSTER MOVES: Defensemen Joni Tuulola and Carl Dahlstrom have been assigned to Rockford. #Blackhawks pic.twitter.com/Nt1KK9ne1i

— Chicago Blackhawks (@NHLBlackhawks) September 25, 2018

Would much rather see:

Saad/Toews/Kane
Schmaltz/AA/ADB-Kahun

Hell, I would trade for both of them, but of course Stan doesn’t have The smarts to get it done. I don’t know about any of you but I think both of those guys would be a shot in the arm, I am one that’s not ready for tanking and no playoffs. I want playoffs this year.
- wonthecup10

Agreed. Claim Smith, trade Saad and Anisimov for Duchene. The Hawk would never lose a faceoff again!

ROSTER MOVES: Defensemen Joni Tuulola and Carl Dahlstrom have been assigned to Rockford. #Blackhawks pic.twitter.com/Nt1KK9ne1i

— Chicago Blackhawks (@NHLBlackhawks) September 25, 2018

- DarthKane

Dahlstrom is kind of surprising, at least this early. I thought he was doing pretty well this year so far.

Would much rather see:

Saad/Toews/Kane
Schmaltz/AA/ADB-Kahun
- Return of the Roar

I guess you like putting all of your eggs in one basket?

I guess you like putting all of your eggs in one basket?
- ToewsdNKanefusd

If Schmaltz and ADB are as advertised....it makes perfect sense. And if not, at least they know what they have and don't have. Time to stop covering for weaknesses and diluting the talent.

Plenty of bottom six guys to go around to round out the rest.

My guess is they decided that having him be a number 7 did not make sense so It seems to me that Manning will be # 7 and Boquist heads back. the bigger question is when both Forsling and Murphy return what happened? By all accounts manning has not looked good correct?

Justin, any word on the lines tonight?

I would like to see Kahun wiith Toews and Cat. IMO, he had a really good game on Friday.
- ToewsdNKanefusd

It sounds like it may be:

DeBrincat-Toews-Kahun
Schmaltz-Anisimov-Kane
Kunitz-Kampf-Saad
Ejdsell-Highmore-Fortin

ex: Martinsen-Sikura

Keith-Seabrook
Davidson-Rutta
Manning-Boqvist

ex: Gustafsson


... Don't quote me on that though.

Dahlstrom is kind of surprising, at least this early. I thought he was doing pretty well this year so far.
- ToewsdNKanefusd

My guess is the D is pretty much set:

Keith, Seabrook, Manning, Rutta, Gustafsson, Jokiharju and Davidson.

Boqvist may get a taste of a couple NHL games, but don't see it at this point.

Things could change but I would be shocked if they made Boqvist a full-time NHLer at this point.

My guess is they decided that having him be a number 7 did not make sense so It seems to me that Manning will be # 7 and Boquist heads back. the bigger question is when both Forsling and Murphy return what happened? By all accounts manning has not looked good correct?
- kmw4631

I think the Hawks may start the season with 8 defensemen with them keeping Boqvist just for no more than 10 games, and joker. Then they will send Boqvist to his junior team and they will carry 7 for the rest of the season.

Forsling may never get called up this season due to his injury. Maybe at the end of the season if the hawks are out, or there is an injury.

If Schmaltz and ADB are as advertised....it makes perfect sense. And if not, at least they know what they have and don't have. Time to stop covering for weaknesses and diluting the talent.

Plenty of bottom six guys to go around to round out the rest.
- Return of the Roar

I was joking anyway, as I feel this may be best for Schmaltz. Maybe he will stop deferring to others so much if he doesn't have any all stars on his line (esp. Kane).

I think the Hawks may start the season with 8 defensemen with them keeping Boqvist just for no more than 10 games, and joker. Then they will send Boqvist to his junior team and they will carry 7 for the rest of the season.

Forsling may never get called up this season due to his injury. Maybe at the end of the season if the hawks are out, or there is an injury.
- ToewsdNKanefusd

Quenneville has been on record this camp saying he won't carry 8 defencemen this year.

He's also looking to carry 22 players (assuming the 23rd is Crawford) so we'll see how that plays out.

So to disprove that stats are useful, you misused stats? All that does is make it look like you don't understand stats which is why you don't like them.

I don't personally care if someone likes/trusts/believes in advanced stats, they're not for everyone, but to deliberately misuse them doesn't make stats look bad, it make the user look bad.
- L_B_R

The advanced stats can be helpful and enlighting, and have a place in evaluating players.

But, they are not as valuable as MLB advanced stats, because baseball players are less interdependent than hockey players.

The best way to evaluate hockey players, is more similar to football. Watch every shift for a given player, and assign them a grade for each shift. Then average, taking into account TOI per shift. Then each player can be assigned an overall grade for a game, a season, etc. Grades can be compared from year to year, to see improvement/decline.

My point was that stats can be misused and skewed to support someones perspective or narrative.

Definitely not implying you were doing that at all but I watched a lot of Hawks games last year and Saad was bad.

Stats have there place and are useful but to say oh Saad was good last year look at his underlying advanced stats he just had a bad shooting % isn't accurate.

He regular old stats were horrible and his play for long stretches was horrible. You can't have a top line forward having multiple 7-8 game stretches where he doesn't dent the score sheet.

This Hawks roster isn't loaded with firepower like the cup years. Less depth means you need all your big guns producing. If they don't this team is in trouble again.
- bhawks2241

Anything can be misused and skewed to support someone's perspective. You could cherry pick games or videos in which a player or team is good or bad but we know that over a large enough sample is the only way to truly assess a player. It's the same way with stats - you look at a large enough sample, you can see trends and such. It's not going to tell you everything, but it might help you understand why the higher level numbers (goals/assists/wins) were what they were.

That's why I typically try to look at as many stats as I can, in context, and with video support. And if I cannot do all of those things, I try to caveat that I didn't get to watch as much or don't have enough context, whatever it may be. My favorite stats, personally, are what are sometimes (but not always) referred to as micro stats - things like passing, zone exits/entries, dump/chase, board battles, etc. These are obtained either through tracking projects where people just sit down and quantify events in hockey or from guys like Mike Kelly who uses a company that does this. So these stats are only gotten through watching the games (they are also typically peer-reviewed - I do this).

When I comment on Saad's underlying/advanced stats, the micro stats are the ones I'm talking about mostly. Quantifying actual shots and passes by type, distance, whatever; looking at how well/bad he transitioned (with the puck, without the puck); and seeing the situation of the players in doing these things should be helpful in getting a better picture of how he performed at an event level. And in these regards, he was good - better with shots (his shot contribution quality was high level) than passing (good but not elite), for example.

So you say you think he looked bad - I respect that because it's an opinion and everyone is entitled to those. I just don't agree - I thought he looked good. Which is why I wanted to know why, if he looked good to me, were his goal/assist down. And the best way for me to try to understand the why and how behind a drop in production is to look more closely at the other stats with context/video.

Quenneville has been on record this camp saying he won't carry 8 defencemen this year.

He's also looking to carry 22 players (assuming the 23rd is Crawford) so we'll see how that plays out.
- Justin Lowe

I realize that, but just to start the season to get Boqvist some games, if that's what they want to do. I think it couldn't hurt to get him a taste of actual NHL game action before sending him to his junior team.

I was cherry picking stats in response to the "advance stats" argument that Saad had a good season except for his shooting %. He had a terrible year period. He didnt look good on the ice and had no puck control for long stretches of the year.

He had 7 pts in his first 4 games. That means in the other 78 games he had 28 pts. That is 3rd line production at best. Blame it on poor luck with shooting % if you want to but he had a horrible year. It wasn't because of luck.
- bhawks2241

Oh come on. Saad looked great at times. He made rushes pasts defenders, was hanging around the net and was often part of the line assigned to match against the oppositions strongest players. He had issues converting on the chances, but they were numerous and when he did score it was often an important goal. Sure, he didn't have good results, but he seemed to be trying to do the right things most the time. He should bounce back in the points department.

The advanced stats can be helpful and enlighting, and have a place in evaluating players.

But, they are not as valuable as MLB advanced stats, because baseball players are less interdependent than hockey players.

The best way to evaluate hockey players, is more similar to football. Watch every shift for a given player, and assign them a grade for each shift. Then average, taking into account TOI per shift. Then each player can be assigned an overall grade for a game, a season, etc. Grades can be compared from year to year, to see improvement/decline.
- scottak

Now, this is true - hockey stats are not as valuable as they are in baseball. Hockey is just a way more variable sport. And not all stats are created equal - some provide better insight and some are mostly pointless. It's all about looking at as much info as possible, in context and conjunction with watching the games, to try to get the most clear picture.

I think grading shifts isn't all that different from what stats in hockey do, just at a more mirco level. I mean, how do you grade a shift? You look at the events in the shift to see if they did good or bad. Stats also track and then quantify those events (in shifts or games) and then looking at that data to see trends, positive and negative. As long as the sample size is large enough to shake out some of the variance, you can compare data from the different samples (season to season is the most common).

Some people can these events and naturally qualify them as good, bad, or somewhere in between. Others can kind of do this but like to look at stats to confirm or eliminate the natural bias we can human have (we're subjective creatures by nature). And still others just like to have as much info as possible regardless of whether they can assess naturally or not.

I realize that, but just to start the season to get Boqvist some games, if that's what they want to do. I think it couldn't hurt to get him a taste of actual NHL game action before sending him to his junior team.
- ToewsdNKanefusd

Very possible.

I'm not sure what the rush is to get Boqvist into games. If he's destined to head back to the OHL... let Jokiharju get more time.

Hey... maybe Boqvist makes the team and flat out beats Jokiharju out.

Oh come on. Saad looked great at times. He made rushes pasts defenders, was hanging around the net and was often part of the line assigned to match against the oppositions strongest players. He had issues converting on the chances, but they were numerous and when he did score it was often an important goal. Sure, he didn't have good results, but he seemed to be trying to do the right things most the time. He should bounce back in the points department.
- breadbag

I expect Saad to be back up to his normal scoring this year. Still would like to see a 20 19 88 line.

Quenneville has been on record this camp saying he won't carry 8 defencemen this year.

He's also looking to carry 22 players (assuming the 23rd is Crawford) so we'll see how that plays out.
- Justin Lowe

I was thinking the same thing. I am starting to wonder if we might see 3 goalies until they give Forsberg some more chances to prove he belongs.

TSN: Matt Duchene says Zack Smith being waived today "is a kick in the balls for us in this locker room"
- walleyeb1

I'm sure the front office is thrilled with his comments. looks like more problems on the horizon with that team and organization. Stan pick up the phone and call and offer to take that problem off their hands.

Very possible.

I'm not sure what the rush is to get Boqvist into games. If he's destined to head back to the OHL... let Jokiharju get more time.

Hey... maybe Boqvist makes the team and flat out beats Jokiharju out.
- Justin Lowe

I was actually just thinking of that...what if Boqvist beats out Jokiharju.

Was it ever determined definitively if Jokiharu can be sent to Rockford?

I was actually just thinking of that...what if Boqvist beats out Jokiharju.

Was it ever determined definitively if Jokiharu can be sent to Rockford?
- ToewsdNKanefusd

It wasn't like officially stated but someone mentioned that Portland doesn't care and that Jokiharju would mess up their import numbers (I believe).