He was hated on because WD(who was in over his head in the NHL) used him like he was like a prime Kesler, giving him top 6 offensive minutes at 5v5, top unit PP time + top PK time. So Sutter was expected to produce offense in that role, and that's never been his strong suit.

I hated him back then too.

Green actually used Sutter the way he should be and he had a solid season on a bad team. Not sure how much more people would expect out of Sutter last year in that role. He did about as well as you'd realistically hope for.
- Nucker101

Because ignorant fans benchmark player performance on position, points and goals.

Bo plays with brock and sven

Sutter played with granlund and dorsett. (Archibald when dorsett went down)

Why are people even talking about sutters point production given their different roles/deployment.
- Codes1087

We aren't only Mr Positive was

He was hated on because WD(who was in over his head in the NHL) used him like he was like a prime Kesler, giving him top 6 offensive minutes at 5v5, top unit PP time + top PK time. So Sutter was expected to produce offense in that role, and that's never been his strong suit.

I hated him back then too. Same with Megna and Vey. WD was just a bizarre coach, he just played guys he liked with no regard for the player's strengths and weaknesses.

Green actually used Sutter the way he should be and he had a solid season on a bad team. Not sure how much more people would expect out of Sutter last year in that role. He did about as well as you'd realistically hope for.
- Nucker101

This is correct

Because ignorant fans benchmark player performance on position, points and goals.
- Codes1087

It's a bit early for......



Son

Because ignorant fans benchmark player performance on position, points and goals.
- Codes1087

the 2 annoying mistakes that I constantly see a decent % of the "analytic community" are

1) Not factoring in usage/linemates enough, or ignoring it completely

2) Ignoring special teams completely, I agree that 5v5 is most important, but some guys almost solely just evaluate players based on 5v5 play exclusively.


Not to mention some people still using corsi only to judge players, there's way better data out there now. Zone entries with puck possession, shot quality, scoring chances created, etc.

I'll admit that I too was guilty of this in the past.

It's a bit early for......



Son
- VanHockeyGuy

Lol believe me, bring up gudbranson, del zotto, stecher, hutton, beagle and my tune changes pretty quick. I just think its retarded to compare a shutdown center with a 1st line center, with point/goal totals being their main comparison

Nope, his are with cashew milk.
- Marwood

Don's a man, he only drinks raw dairy.

the 2 annoying mistakes that I constantly see a decent % of the "analytic community" are

1) Not factoring in usage/linemates enough, or ignoring it completely

2) Ignoring special teams completely, I agree that 5v5 is most important, but some guys almost solely just evaluate players based on 5v5 play exclusively.


Not to mention some people still using corsi only to judge players, there's way better data out there now. Zone entries with puck possession, shot quality, scoring chances created, etc.
- Nucker101

You are 100% right. Hero charts and analytics will never be able to take deployment and roles into consideration, which is why shutdown lines are always pooped on. I dont think the hate on sutter on these boards have had any analytical influence though.. which makes it worse lol

Lol believe me, bring up gudbranson, del zotto, stecher, hutton, beagle and my tune changes pretty quick. I just think its retarded to compare a shutdown center with a 1st line center, with point/goal totals being their main comparison
- Codes1087

Yeah, it's lazy writing with clear bias. I wonder how many articles they've written bashing the Sedins for bleeding goals against last year despite being given some of the easiest 5v5 usage in the entire NHL.


I'm guessing the number isn't close to as many as they've written on how much Sutter "sucks"

Lol believe me, bring up gudbranson, del zotto, stecher, hutton, beagle and my tune changes pretty quick. I just think its retarded to compare a shutdown center with a 1st line center, with point/goal totals being their main comparison
- Codes1087

That pressure will undoubtedly be bestowed upon EP.

Yeah, it's lazy writing with clear bias. I wonder how many articles they've written bashing the Sedins for bleeding goals against last year despite being given some of the easiest 5v5 usage in the entire NHL.


I'm guessing the number isn't close to as many as they've written on how much Sutter "sucks"
- Nucker101

Its because canuck fans are stupid. The sedins were bashed insanely for their lack of even strength production, given their zone starts and PP time and goals given up at even strength, and then the same fans shouted "1 more year" in their final home game. Its the same fans who thought eddie lack should have stayed because he had a stutter, and were blind to the fact that he was trash. Hate to say it, but some of our fans are the reason we have a bad rep as a fanbase lol

That pressure will undoubtedly be bestowed upon EP.
- VanHockeyGuy

I have a feeling green slides EP on the wing, atleast until he can pack on some weight and get adjusted to the speed and skill and physicality of the NHL

I liked the start of last year and the end to last year. This year I am hoping for longer stretches .
- VANTEL

See that with added experience we hope. One thing I liked about TG was when he was saying that stats on the board are fine but you have to do things to help the team win nightly.

Lol believe me, bring up gudbranson, del zotto, stecher, hutton, beagle and my tune changes pretty quick. I just think its retarded to compare a shutdown center with a 1st line center, with point/goal totals being their main comparison
- Codes1087

Too many question marks about this team this year.

Will Hutton be as bad now that he is in shape and pissed?

Will Granlund score 8 goals now that he is not a shut down guy?

Will Pouliot come in where he finished last year or will he struggle defensively again?

Will Tanev be healthy for 60 games ?

Will Markstrom get rid if his terrible first shot % ?

Will Jake finally become consistent?

Will any prospect step up?

Will Gaince brek out of scoring drought?

If three of these happen then we will be better .

Its because canuck fans are stupid. The sedins were bashed insanely for their lack of even strength production, given their zone starts and PP time and goals given up at even strength, and then the same fans shouted "1 more year" in their final home game. Its the same fans who thought eddie lack should have stayed because he had a stutter, and were blind to the fact that he was trash. Hate to say it, but some of our fans are the reason we have a bad rep as a fanbase lol
- Codes1087

Yeah, the Eddie Lack love was pretty hilarious. The hilarious thing is that some fans still thought he was decent and wanted him back even after he shat the bed in Carolina

That pressure will undoubtedly be bestowed upon EP.
- VanHockeyGuy

He's an even better prospect than Boeser and Horvat were at the same age, he's much more likely to be playing in the top 6 + PP this year than being sent down in the AHL.

He's an even better prospect than Boeser and Horvat were at the same age, he's much more likely to be playing in the top 6 + PP this year than being sent down in the AHL.
- Nucker101

The flexibility on this roster makes it if he is ready for top 6 there is a spot , if he is ready for third line there is a spot

Yeah, the Eddie Lack love was pretty hilarious. The hilarious thing is that some fans still thought he was decent and wanted him back even after he shat the bed in Carolina
- Nucker101

Eddie Lack had good back up type numbers in Van though. He has sucked terribly everyone else.

Comes to the thinking of Van fans where it's one end of the spectrum or the other.

Too many question marks about this team this year.

Will Hutton be as bad now that he is in shape and pissed?

Will Granlund score 8 goals now that he is not a shut down guy?

Will Pouliot come in where he finished last year or will he struggle defensively again?

Will Tanev be healthy for 60 games ?

Will Markstrom get rid if his terrible first shot % ?

Will Jake finally become consistent?

Will any prospect step up?

Will Gaince brek out of scoring drought?

If three of these happen then we will be better .
- VANTEL

I wont hold my breath but I will go with Jake, Granlund, Pouliot.

I wont hold my breath but I will go with Jake, Granlund, Pouliot.
- thundachunk

I can see Gaunce pushing 5 goals too . Breakout year

I want to see Juloevi beat out Hutton and Pouliot for a job..

The flexibility on this roster makes it if he is ready for top 6 there is a spot , if he is ready for third line there is a spot
- VANTEL

Yup.


Even though I firmly believe Benning overpaid in UFA, I like that he targeted guys who have a history of playing well in checking roles. As much as we enjoyed watching Vanek and Vrbata score goals and were hoping Eriksson would too, it makes way more sense to give the easy minutes to develop the young players offensively.

I want to see Juloevi beat out Hutton and Pouliot for a job..
- thundachunk

If his defensive game has improved, he's easily capable of doing it.

Too many question marks about this team this year.

Will Hutton be as bad now that he is in shape and pissed?
No, he plays better.
Will Granlund score 8 goals now that he is not a shut down guy?
He scores a few more
Will Pouliot come in where he finished last year or will he struggle defensively again?
Struggle
Will Tanev be healthy for 60 games ?
Doubt it
Will Markstrom get rid if his terrible first shot % ?
Yes
Will Jake finally become consistent?
More consistent 15 goals
Will any prospect step up?
Dahlen
Will Gaince brek out of scoring drought?
He gets 8
If three of these happen then we will be better .
- VANTEL

I want to see Juloevi beat out Hutton and Pouliot for a job..
- thundachunk

I like Pouliot . He eventually put up good numbers , he plays both sides ( not a gay comment ) Still very young , cheap . I would like to give him more time