If Karlsson is stupid enough to waive to come here, I don't want him
- Lahey

Ok, you can believe me or not, really dont care because I would bet $$$ Tkachuk would never ever ever be traded 1-1 in this scenario. I do have legit intel about DH's behavior & attitude after his brother was put on waivers. His lack of "give a fck" reverberated throughout the dressing room. He missed team functions but what sealed his fate out of town was missing the yearend meetings & interviews. Take what you want from that, I dont care.

So I look at your line up projection & I do hope you remember that there is a salary cap & how in God's green earth are you going to resign EK to a Doughty or Tavares deal & keep that projected line up?

You are willing to trade Tkachuk 20 years old & you have only seen the tip of what this kid could do? He got 50+ points playing with Backlund & Frolik & getting very little PP time. Im shocked we are having this debate. But thats ok, I like & usually agree with most of your posts but this one we can agree to disagree.
- Kevin R

Dougie also played some of his best hockey after his brother was traded. He didn't want to talk to the media about it, big whoop--blaming Dougie for the disaster that was last season isn't really fair.

I love Tkachuk as much as anyone, but Karlsson is a generational talent. When you have a chance to acquire a player of this calibre, you need to at least consider it.

You could compare it to what the Raptors just did (I know, I know--boo basketball)--they traded perhaps the most popular player in franchise history for a guy that doesn't even really want to be there--but it gives them a better chance to win, which is only thing a franchise should be worried about.

It would be an unpopular trade, but I think the Flames would have a better overall chance at winning a cup with Karlsson added to the current roster than they would building around Tkachuk.

He did get top power play time in the second half of the year before he got injured. I really have to question your stats a bit. Early in the year he got some 2nd PP time but that doesnt add up to having more than McDavid. I went to many games & know that he was not on the top PP in the months of Oct, Nov & Dec. How he has more than McDavid is kind of mind boggling, I dont watch Oiler games if the Flames arent playing them, I am shocked. And your coach is still there??????
- Kevin R

Well, the stats are through NHL.com so I don't think they're wrong. As to your argument, I'd suggest it's likely a multi-factor issue.

On the note of the stats, Tkachuk- and your team as a whole- drew more penalties last year than the Oilers did which meant more TOI for your PP units. Tkachuk was 5th on your team in PP time/gm while McDavid was 1st on the Oilers so it's not as if McLellan wasn't using McDavid as much as he could; it's all relative.

As for your perception, Tkachuk also takes a fair deal of penalties himself meaning he likely missed a fair few opportunities to play on the PP by being in the box. This likely contributed to your perception that he didn't get as much time on the PP as he actually did.

Have we traded for Erik Karlsson & Brady Tkachuk yet?
- kevin R

I was wondering what that would take.
My guess is that Stone (the defenseman) would be part of the Ottawa pick-up, so other Stone (the forward) feels more at home after his one-year deal and could be persuaded to re-up.
Just getting rid of our Stone would be a win for Calgary, so there would need to be some big time sweetening of the pot.

Would Giordano, Bennett, Backlund, Stone be overpayment for Karlsson and someone else from Ottawa? I'm assuming that Brady T. wouldn't be part of that someone else. He's probably worth yet another level of player.

My thinking is Captain Gio for Captain Karlsson and we'd need to overpay for that upgrade here. Throwing in Stone balances the salaries, but Ottawa won't just take two aging leadfoots for their unhappy star.

Honest question for you:
Oilers would really benefit from getting an EK. More than the Flames would. But if he wouldnt commit to resigning with the Oilers, & seeing you would have to move salary to even have a hope of resigning him, would you give up Nuge & Nurse for him for 1 year or even Draisatl + a pick for him for 1 year?
- Kevin R

Not a chance. I don't disagree with you regarding the trading of young, NHL-proven assets in exchange for an older asset- (almost) no matter how good he is.

I was wondering what that would take.
My guess is that Stone (the defenseman) would be part of the Ottawa pick-up, so other Stone (the forward) feels more at home after his one-year deal and could be persuaded to re-up.
Just getting rid of our Stone would be a win for Calgary, so there would need to be some big time sweetening of the pot.

Would Giordano, Bennett, Backlund, Stone be overpayment for Karlsson and someone else from Ottawa? I'm assuming that Brady T. wouldn't be part of that someone else. He's probably worth yet another level of player.

My thinking is Captain Gio for Captain Karlsson and we'd need to overpay for that upgrade here. Throwing in Stone balances the salaries, but Ottawa won't just take two aging leadfoots for their unhappy star.
- MABster

It seams like they want a good young dman or blue chip d-prospect to be included for Karlsson. I'd remove Backlkund from that trade--and Gio would most likely become either Brodie or Hamonic.

The thing that sucks is they probably want Valimaki+ in any deal we'd make (unless we traded our Tkachuk of course )

I was wondering what that would take.
My guess is that Stone (the defenseman) would be part of the Ottawa pick-up, so other Stone (the forward) feels more at home after his one-year deal and could be persuaded to re-up.
Just getting rid of our Stone would be a win for Calgary, so there would need to be some big time sweetening of the pot.

Would Giordano, Bennett, Backlund, Stone be overpayment for Karlsson and someone else from Ottawa? I'm assuming that Brady T. wouldn't be part of that someone else. He's probably worth yet another level of player.

My thinking is Captain Gio for Captain Karlsson and we'd need to overpay for that upgrade here. Throwing in Stone balances the salaries, but Ottawa won't just take two aging leadfoots for their unhappy star.
- MABster

Don't think that package would work for Ottawa. They're trying to shed salary and add young pieces. You'd likely be looking at something closer to Brodie, one of Andersson/Valimaki, Bennett, Stone and a 1st for a renewed Karlsson, a median contract and a low-level player/prospect to balance contract counts.

Probably an accurate assessment of his potential; I'm just not of the belief that Perry deserves the "franchise" tag. Really just a matter of opinion on how to use the term, but it's interesting to see how others view/use it.
- MaximumBone

Love Tkachuk but Franchise he is not.

Everyone here is forgetting that the reason nobody has traded for EK (hence why the TBL trade failed) is that Bobby Ryan has to be coming back the other way. Flames absolutely do not have that kinda salary.

Everyone here is forgetting that the reason nobody has traded for EK (hence why the TBL trade failed) is that Bobby Ryan has to be coming back the other way. Flames absolutely do not have that kinda salary.
- LittleBroDougie

I think the price is substantially reduced if Ryan is coming back, but I highly doubt it is a requirement. If it is, then either Ottawa gets absolutely fleeced when they trade Karlsson or they lose him for nothing in free agency.

The Senator's don't have a whole lot of leverage for any trades they make right now. Demanding that Ryan is included will cause teams to either severely diminsh the return or not make an offer at all, and then Ottawa loses a generational defenseman for nothing on July 1st. I know I wouldn't want to lose Karlsson for nothing, but I also know I wouldn't want to get absolutely fleeced on him.

Ottawa only gets to trade Karlsson once. They have to get good value back. Including Ryan in any deal for him makes the return for one of the best players in the game significantly worse.

Everyone here is forgetting that the reason nobody has traded for EK (hence why the TBL trade failed) is that Bobby Ryan has to be coming back the other way. Flames absolutely do not have that kinda salary.
- LittleBroDougie

I have no concerns about BT's ability to navigate himself around the salary cap. If Pittburgh can somehow fit Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Kessel under the cap--then we can find a way to make room for Erik Karlsson if we had to.

A trade with B.Ryan included could look something like:

Stone- 3.5 mil
Frolik- 4.3 mil
Brodie-4.6 mil
Valimaki (*would really try to avoid including him)
Pick/Prospect (wouldn't give the 1st if Valimaki was in the deal)
=~12.5

B. Ryan--6.50 (I could see BT getting Ottawa to retain to keep Johnny as the highest paid forward)
EK65--6.5 mill (11 mil extension)
=13 mil

Next season = 17.5 mil cap hit--that could get difficult next year with Bennett & Tkachuk due, but not impossible.

Look at the lineup we could ice though:

Johnny Money Neal
Tkachuk Backlund Lindholm
Bennett Janko B.Ryan
??? Ryan Czarnik

Karlsson Hanifin
Gio Hamonic
Kulak Rass

I think the price is substantially reduced if Ryan is coming back, but I highly doubt it is a requirement. If it is, then either Ottawa gets absolutely fleeced when they trade Karlsson or they lose him for nothing in free agency.

The Senator's don't have a whole lot of leverage for any trades they make right now. Demanding that Ryan is included will cause teams to either severely diminsh the return or not make an offer at all, and then Ottawa loses a generational defenseman for nothing on July 1st. I know I wouldn't want to lose Karlsson for nothing, but I also know I wouldn't want to get absolutely fleeced on him.

Ottawa only gets to trade Karlsson once. They have to get good value back. Including Ryan in any deal for him makes the return for one of the best players in the game significantly worse.
- Helios

I know Dorion is only listening to his owner, but at some point when does he grow balls? Does he want to be known as the guy that loss a top d-man in the game for nothing?

At least with Hoffman you could've said he was a cancer so there is a loss on him, but somehow SJ went on to do better than him in flipping Hoffman.

Trading Karlsson and Ryan in a package is going to set that franchise back even further than they are now.

Man what is everyones hard on for brady? Its not gonna happen and it would take more than most think.

Yea he would be cool to have but kid hasnt played an nhl game yet

Probably an accurate assessment of his potential; I'm just not of the belief that Perry deserves the "franchise" tag. Really just a matter of opinion on how to use the term, but it's interesting to see how others view/use it.
- MaximumBone

Yeah, fair, I don't know that I apply the franchise tag to him either, for me, that's Johnny who has proven he can play and score at an elite level in this league.

That said, Chucky brings more to an all-around game than Johnny, so it might be an age-old debate of what brings more value to your team. Pure scoring, or the ability to do everything well.

I have no concerns about BT's ability to navigate himself around the salary cap. If Pittburgh can somehow fit Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Kessel under the cap--then we can find a way to make room for Erik Karlsson if we had to.

A trade with B.Ryan included could look something like:

Stone- 3.5 mil
Frolik- 4.3 mil
Brodie-4.6 mil
Valimaki (*would really try to avoid including him)
Pick/Prospect (wouldn't give the 1st if Valimaki was in the deal)
=~12.5

B. Ryan--6.50 (I could see BT getting Ottawa to retain to keep Johnny as the highest paid forward)
EK65--6.5 mill (11 mil extension)
=13 mil

Next season = 17.5 mil cap hit--that could get difficult next year with Bennett & Tkachuk due, but not impossible.

Look at the lineup we could ice though:

Johnny Money Neal
Tkachuk Backlund Lindholm
Bennett Janko B.Ryan
??? Ryan Czarnik

Karlsson Hanifin
Gio Hamonic
Kulak Rass
- Saskabush

I love EK but is he really worth all that? For all we know at this point, Valimaki could be the next big defensive stud other teams drool over

Edit: Let's not forget where EK was drafted (15th OV) - take a look at his draft profile and it becomes even more familiar...

Karlsson is a very offensive minded defenseman. He is blessed with excellent hockey sense, confidence and coolness. Everything looks so easy and natural when Karlsson has the puck under control in the offensive zone. He is a true power specialist that usually gets the puck on net and also delivers very good passes. Furthermore, he is mobile and a capable skater with good agility and technical skills.

Read more at http://www.hockeysfuture....sson/#wVjGqd7mRb7y8AZ2.99

I know Dorion is only listening to his owner, but at some point when does he grow balls? Does he want to be known as the guy that loss a top d-man in the game for nothing?

At least with Hoffman you could've said he was a cancer so there is a loss on him, but somehow SJ went on to do better than him in flipping Hoffman.

Trading Karlsson and Ryan in a package is going to set that franchise back even further than they are now.
- Lahey

That was a weird one, but I have a feeling that San Jose was able to extract the better price because they traded back into the East (wonder if Dorion was informed not to trade him inside the conference/division). That and everyone and their dog knew that Dorion had to move him, so that likely hampered negotiations to a large degree. San Jose didn't have that pressure, nor an edict from their owner on trading the guy at all.

What's weird to me is the talk of Karlsson to Tbay with Hoffman in Fla... Basically forced the Hoffman trade only to potentially end up 180 miles away from him.

Man what is everyones hard on for brady? Its not gonna happen and it would take more than most think.

Yea he would be cool to have but kid hasnt played an nhl game yet
- Monyhands23

A draft pick from this years draft hasn’t played an NHL game yet.

So he’s worth squat until he proves he can bring it at the NHL level. This comment is ridiculous.

Dougie also played some of his best hockey after his brother was traded. He didn't want to talk to the media about it, big whoop--blaming Dougie for the disaster that was last season isn't really fair.

I love Tkachuk as much as anyone, but Karlsson is a generational talent. When you have a chance to acquire a player of this calibre, you need to at least consider it.

You could compare it to what the Raptors just did (I know, I know--boo basketball)--they traded perhaps the most popular player in franchise history for a guy that doesn't even really want to be there--but it gives them a better chance to win, which is only thing a franchise should be worried about.

It would be an unpopular trade, but I think the Flames would have a better overall chance at winning a cup with Karlsson added to the current roster than they would building around Tkachuk.
- Saskabush

So he didn’t give a poop if his team won or lost, skipped out on the team functions, and skipped out on team, coach, and media exit meetings because he didn’t feel like going?! Do you even have a real job. Especially one that pays you millions of dollars?!! You can’t blow off your teammates and bosses just because you’re putting up points. That’s just ludicrous.

So he didn’t give a poop if his team won or lost, skipped out on the team functions, and skipped out on team, coach, and media exit meetings because he didn’t feel like going?! Do you even have a real job. Especially one that pays you millions of dollars?!! You can’t blow off your teammates and bosses just because you’re putting up points. That’s just ludicrous.
- Flamin_Irishmin

Thanks for saying this, I thought it was pretty obvious. & this Franchise Smanchise crap. MT is elite at the age of 20. Elite players are what distinguishes franchises. Semantics I guess. There arent too many untouchables on our team & Matty is one of them. He plays the game the way I want him to. Marchand is a big time douche bag but the guy is elite. I would take him on my team all day long & twice on Sunday.
Why I would love Brady is that I see him bringing a douche to his game on the ice & that would just be so much fun to watch. I know many Flame fans would scoff at the idea of Bennett for Brady swap & I like the nastiness to Bennetts game when he wants & isnt afraid to drop the gloves, but Brady is younger & we can differ having to pay the $$$ versus Bennett is going to want to get paid if he has a good year this year.
Id do that deal if I were GM.

Thanks for saying this, I thought it was pretty obvious. & this Franchise Smanchise crap. MT is elite at the age of 20. Elite players are what distinguishes franchises. Semantics I guess. There arent too many untouchables on our team & Matty is one of them. He plays the game the way I want him to. Marchand is a big time douche bag but the guy is elite. I would take him on my team all day long & twice on Sunday.
Why I would love Brady is that I see him bringing a douche to his game on the ice & that would just be so much fun to watch. I know many Flame fans would scoff at the idea of Bennett for Brady swap & I like the nastiness to Bennetts game when he wants & isnt afraid to drop the gloves, but Brady is younger & we can differ having to pay the $$$ versus Bennett is going to want to get paid if he has a good year this year.
Id do that deal if I were GM.
- Kevin R

So much of this is right.

However I don’t think playing playing Brady with his brother would be a good idea. Sounds like a whole lotta don’t fuk with Tkachuks penalties right there. I also don’t “maybe” think it’s worth it yet to trade for Brady, but maybe nows the time to do it before he sticks it to the pundants.

Either way I’m picking up what your putting down. It’s a good post!

A draft pick from this years draft hasn’t played an NHL game yet.

So he’s worth squat until he proves he can bring it at the NHL level. This comment is ridiculous.

- Flamin_Irishmin

You completely missed the point but ok. Thats literally you saying Bennett is worth the same because he was 4 overall but has played more games?

If that were the case every gm would trade a top 5 pick for pennies on the dollar. Youre paying for potential and that my friend isnt cheap.

You completely missed the point but ok. Thats literally you saying Bennett is worth the same because he was 4 overall but has played more games?

If that were the case every gm would trade a top 5 pick for pennies on the dollar. Youre paying for potential and that my friend isnt cheap.
- Monyhands23

Butt then your saying Mony in the sixth overall was a crap shoot as well. You can’t reduce the value in a commodity you haven’t even raced to his full potential is what I’m saying. Yes let’s not break the bank or something because he’s Matthews brother, more like offer assets IF reasonable for a really, stud of a horse if you will. I for one bet on this colt. Bread by fire. From a family of pedigree of some of the highest degree.

I’ll put my honor on that. No question.

Thanks for saying this, I thought it was pretty obvious. & this Franchise Smanchise crap. MT is elite at the age of 20. Elite players are what distinguishes franchises. Semantics I guess. There arent too many untouchables on our team & Matty is one of them. He plays the game the way I want him to. Marchand is a big time douche bag but the guy is elite. I would take him on my team all day long & twice on Sunday.
Why I would love Brady is that I see him bringing a douche to his game on the ice & that would just be so much fun to watch. I know many Flame fans would scoff at the idea of Bennett for Brady swap & I like the nastiness to Bennetts game when he wants & isnt afraid to drop the gloves, but Brady is younger & we can differ having to pay the $$$ versus Bennett is going to want to get paid if he has a good year this year.
Id do that deal if I were GM.
- Kevin R

I still see (hope) Bennett breaks out this year. New coach, fresh start, better linemates, year older..... He may even get a regular pp time now that TB is out. As you said he brings a nastiness to the team which we really need with Ferland gone, Hathaway hopefully playing limited time.
If Brady truly isn't signing in Ottawa, they're going to want to huge return. Would be. Interested to see what that is. Maybe he plays in school until he become a fa and signs here for free? One can dream it's summer.

Butt then your saying Mony in the sixth overall was a crap shoot as well. You can’t reduce the value in a commodity you haven’t even raced to his full potential is what I’m saying. Yes let’s not break the bank or something because he’s Matthews brother, more like offer assets IF reasonable for a really, stud of a horse if you will. I for one bet on this colt. Bread by fire. From a family of pedigree of some of the highest degree.

I’ll put my honor on that. No question.
- Flamin_Irishmin

I will agree with that.

All im saying is that i personally felt people undervalued him in a trade. If it was reasonable, sure. But at what point does it become to much?

I have no concerns about BT's ability to navigate himself around the salary cap. If Pittburgh can somehow fit Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Kessel under the cap--then we can find a way to make room for Erik Karlsson if we had to.

A trade with B.Ryan included could look something like:

Stone- 3.5 mil
Frolik- 4.3 mil
Brodie-4.6 mil
Valimaki (*would really try to avoid including him)
Pick/Prospect (wouldn't give the 1st if Valimaki was in the deal)
=~12.5

B. Ryan--6.50 (I could see BT getting Ottawa to retain to keep Johnny as the highest paid forward)
EK65--6.5 mill (11 mil extension)
=13 mil

Next season = 17.5 mil cap hit--that could get difficult next year with Bennett & Tkachuk due, but not impossible.

Look at the lineup we could ice though:

Johnny Money Neal
Tkachuk Backlund Lindholm
Bennett Janko B.Ryan
??? Ryan Czarnik

Karlsson Hanifin
Gio Hamonic
Kulak Rass
- Saskabush

If Ryan is included there's no way it costs us that much. Hell, I think Brodie + Valimaki + pick gives us a shot at Karlsson by himself. Adding Ryan decreases the value, not increases it. I don't think I'd touch Ryan regardless, but certainly not at that price.

As for the cap concerns if we were to get Karlsson AND manage to extend him, we could find a way to make it work. Tampa is loaded with stars who make quite a bit but they manage. All the good teams do for the most part.