And by doing so are saying they know better than the system that the entire country and society is governed by which is either wrong or hypocritical. The reason why the court system and the law exists is to protect people in this exact situation. With no conviction, they suspended him and cost him millions of dollars. This isn't a case of a guy getting away with zero punishment. He's been punished even without proving he's guilty yet. Add to that a possible conviction and there's another punishment outside of baseball.

But all of that is besides the point. The original point is that if he plays for the Jays again, "they support domestic violence" but if he plays in the MLB again for a different team, then everything is just fine. It's ridiculous. If he can play again in Houston and "redeem" himself, he can do the same in Toronto. And that's all ASSUMING he's actually guilty of whatever they say and prove he did.

Due process. It matters. And when people, organizations etc. pretend like it doesn't, it's a giant joke on the system which turns accusations into executions.
- Unholy_Goalie

He didn't appeal the suspension as is his right under the CBA. He and his agent accepted the suspension.

Due process in the legal system still exists, he still gets a trial. You're confusing sports suspensions with reality.

Actually the Blackhawks are lucky because he helped them win 3 Stanley Cups and pulled a team from the brink of bankruptcy to respectability as a franchise.
- Unholy_Goalie

He almost got charged for rape. He could have gone to jail.

He's lucky he didn't. And he's lucky the fans welcomed him back. I'm not so sure that would go over too well in Toronto. I'm pretty sure we'd run anyone out if it was serious enough.

That's basically what the Jays did in trading him for fear of the "PR optics". Still doesn't mean that the Jays "support domestic violence" by letting him play again, especially if he hasn't been convicted of anything yet either.

The Jays weren't there when it happened, just like nobody else except the parties involved. That's why trials exist.
- Unholy_Goalie

The Jays don't need to know the result of the trial to make a decision about if they want the guy in their organization. I know some guys that I don't want in my life because of things they've done, and I wasn't there when it went down, and there was no trial, but I feel very comfortable making the decision.

And by doing so are saying they know better than the system that the entire country and society is governed by which is either wrong or hypocritical. The reason why the court system and the law exists is to protect people in this exact situation. With no conviction, they suspended him and cost him millions of dollars. This isn't a case of a guy getting away with zero punishment. He's been punished even without proving he's guilty yet. Add to that a possible conviction and there's another punishment outside of baseball.

But all of that is besides the point. The original point is that if he plays for the Jays again, "they support domestic violence" but if he plays in the MLB again for a different team, then everything is just fine. It's ridiculous. If he can play again in Houston and "redeem" himself, he can do the same in Toronto. And that's all ASSUMING he's actually guilty of whatever they say and prove he did.

Due process. It matters. And when people, organizations etc. pretend like it doesn't, it's a giant joke on the system which turns accusations into executions.
- Unholy_Goalie

The courts aren't infallible. Remember OJ? Or do you think he was actually innocent?

If the team believes he really is guilty, they should do whatever they think is best, regardless of the court decision.

If you were buddies with him and you thought he was definitely guilty due to your own dealings with him and his family around the time of the incident, would you stay friends just because he wasn't convicted by the courts?
What if he got off on something like, insufficient evidence, or if the police screwed up taking said evidence or didn't follow proper procedure when interviewing the suspect, or some other technicality?

I do agree with you on the whole redemption thing. If he can be redeemed somewhere else, surely he can be redeemed here. Although I get that if a team is already getting a lot of bad press, they may feel pressured to get rid of a player that's providing them more bad PR.

He almost got charged for rape. He could have gone to jail.

He's lucky he didn't. And he's lucky the fans welcomed him back. I'm not so sure that would go over too well in Toronto. I'm pretty sure we'd run anyone out if it was serious enough.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Craig MacTavish killed a guy. So did Dany Heatley.

Craig MacTavish killed a guy. So did Dany Heatley.
- Unholy_Goalie

$ will get you a good lawyer.

It might be a bit different because an AM is way, way more valuable than a closing pitcher, even a good one. But yeah, obviously companies don't want their brand associated with that kind of thing, especially public entertainment where a lot of the customers are families and kids. It's pretty basic PR management.
- Zezel

You're right about the PR stuff. When your in any kind of entertainment or sports industry, they gotta think about the PR. Whether it's always fair or they're always guilty? Those in charge need to protect their image.

The Jays don't need to know the result of the trial to make a decision about if they want the guy in their organization. I know some guys that I don't want in my life because of things they've done, and I wasn't there when it went down, and there was no trial, but I feel very comfortable making the decision.
- Zezel

And that's what's wrong with this bullpoop. An accusation becomes an execution.

Craig MacTavish killed a guy. So did Dany Heatley.
- Unholy_Goalie

This just goes along with my mention of OJ. Rich and famous people often get off the hook by the courts when they probably shouldn't.
Didn't Heatley get traded the next year?
Don't really know what happened with MacTavish.

You're right about the PR stuff. When your in any kind of entertainment or sports industry, they gotta think about the PR. Whether it's always fair or they're always guilty? Those in charge need to protect their image.
- Thecakeisalie

I'm sure they'd immediately hire a PI.. They're cheap, and the evidence they dig up is admissible in court.

You're right about the PR stuff. When your in any kind of entertainment or sports industry, they gotta think about the PR. Whether it's always fair or they're always guilty? Those in charge need to protect their image.
- Thecakeisalie

Unless of course he's not guilty (which nobody knows yet because the trial hasn't happened yet). Now you just traded away one of the best closers in the game, who is very young, for relatively nothing thus costing you games, series and potentially championships. Better for business? Not really. Nobody is going to be going to more games because they traded Osuna. And if the team was winning, people's memories would get pretty short, pretty quick.

Houston had a prospect who allegedly did the same thing and the whole team, including Verlander, took a huge poop on him. Now they bring in Osuna. It's all bullpoop.

And that's what's wrong with this bullpoop. An accusation becomes an execution.
- Unholy_Goalie

He got traded, not fired. As I said, he also didn't appeal the suspension. He still gets a criminal trial. But clearly the Jays didn't like the smell of the situation, so they traded him. Didn't want them around their club. Don't you think maybe they know some things that you don't?

Unless of course he's not guilty (which nobody knows yet because the trial hasn't happened yet). Now you just traded away one of the best closers in the game, who is very young, for relatively nothing thus costing you games, series and potentially championships. Better for business? Not really. Nobody is going to be going to more games because they traded Osuna. And if the team was winning, people's memories would get pretty short, pretty quick.

Houston had a prospect who allegedly did the same thing and the whole team, including Verlander, took a huge poop on him. Now they bring in Osuna. It's all bullpoop.
- Unholy_Goalie

The Blues Jays have like bajillions of female fans. It's (frank)ing nuts.

SoOoOoOooo.... You gotta think maybe, just maaaaaaaaaybe....... They don't wanna piss them off while they're absolute garbage this year...

Unless of course he's not guilty (which nobody knows yet because the trial hasn't happened yet). Now you just traded away one of the best closers in the game, who is very young, for relatively nothing thus costing you games, series and potentially championships. Better for business? Not really. Nobody is going to be going to more games because they traded Osuna. And if the team was winning, people's memories would get pretty short, pretty quick.

Houston had a prospect who allegedly did the same thing and the whole team, including Verlander, took a huge poop on him. Now they bring in Osuna. It's all bullpoop.
- Unholy_Goalie

It's PR and politics. Gotta satisfy the mob. If they were confident he was innocent, they could maybe wait things out until he got a not guilty verdict, but if they are unsure, it's probably wise to trade him to satisfy the mob who isn't thinking about his use as a player now, only that he's a bad person. "Shrug".

Unless of course he's not guilty (which nobody knows yet because the trial hasn't happened yet). Now you just traded away one of the best closers in the game, who is very young, for relatively nothing thus costing you games, series and potentially championships. Better for business? Not really. Nobody is going to be going to more games because they traded Osuna. And if the team was winning, people's memories would get pretty short, pretty quick.

Houston had a prospect who allegedly did the same thing and the whole team, including Verlander, took a huge poop on him. Now they bring in Osuna. It's all bullpoop.
- Unholy_Goalie

If you think nobody knows things because something hasn't come to trial yet, not sure what to tell you.

The Blues Jays have like bajillions of female fans. It's (frank)ing nuts.

SoOoOoOooo.... You gotta think maybe, just maaaaaaaaaybe....... They don't wanna piss them off while they're absolute garbage this year...
- Arctic_AARDVARK

The Astros have zero female fans?

The Astros have zero female fans?
- Unholy_Goalie

He broke a bond..

He can rebuild that with Astros fans who im sure are much more open to forgive him in Texas.

It's PR and politics. Gotta satisfy the mob. If they were confident he was innocent, they could maybe wait things out until he got a not guilty verdict, but if they are unsure, it's probably wise to trade him to satisfy the mob who isn't thinking about his use as a player now, only that he's a bad person. "Shrug".
- Thecakeisalie

Satisfying the mob might be why the world is a wee bit (frank)ed up right now, don't you think?

"The due diligence by our front office was unprecedented. We are confident that Osuna is remorseful, has wilfully complied with all consequences related to his past behaviour, has proactively engaged in counselling, and willfully comply with our zero tolerance policy related to abuse of any kind," Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow said.

If that's enough for the Astros to acquire Osuna, it should have been enough for the Jays to keep him.

The Astros have zero female fans?
- Unholy_Goalie

They're taking a PR risk by bringing him in, as well as risking that he may be found guilty. It doesn't mean the Jays were wrong to wash their hands of the situation.

Satisfying the mob might be why the world is a wee bit (frank)ed up right now, don't you think?

"The due diligence by our front office was unprecedented. We are confident that Osuna is remorseful, has wilfully complied with all consequences related to his past behaviour, has proactively engaged in counselling, and willfully comply with our zero tolerance policy related to abuse of any kind," Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow said.

If that's enough for the Astros to acquire Osuna, it should have been enough for the Jays to keep him.
- Unholy_Goalie

If the Astros jumped off a bridge, should the Jays do that too?

If the Astros jumped off a bridge, should the Jays do that too?
- Zezel

Well.. Blue Jays can fly, so....

Well.. Blue Jays can fly, so....
- Arctic_AARDVARK

- Steven_Seagull

Not as gracefully as the majestic seagull?

Well.. Blue Jays can fly, so....
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Yeah, but not into orbit. FACT.

Yeah, but not into orbit. FACT.
- Zezel

But off bridges they're fine.. The more likely to survive of the two, for sure.

Honestly i dont even know what the (frank) an Astro is. Like a dude in a spacesuit?