You do not need them. There is no guarantee Grundstrom will be anything, there is no guarantee they need to trade Brown and there is no guarantee they don't have another prospect that can fill the same hole.

You do not blow a chance to get a good player over a prospect that might be a 3rd line player
- Santo_44

I think Grundstrom is one of our better prospects.

I understand your reasoning and it is a fair ask (would cost more than just Grundstrom I think) but I am leery of getting back to a situation where we have no farm system because we traded for rentals.

I don't think anyone expects the Leafs to be drafting very high for quite a few years going forward.

Nice HUNDO Mike in Basement!

That's what I mean, obviously Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Gardiner will not be included. If the worth while prospects are not available then probably not worth it for the Flyers.

Gauthiers is a hell no and Bracco....yeah rather watch Simmonds walk after the year then take him.
- Glak18

Some Leaf fans horde prospects like crazy.

Yeah lets turn down a good player to help us win the cup just so we can have another Josh Lievo in 4 years!

That's what I mean, obviously Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Gardiner will not be included. If the worth while prospects are not available then probably not worth it for the Flyers.

Gauthiers is a hell no and Bracco....yeah rather watch Simmonds walk after the year then take him.
- Glak18

Yeah, may come to that. I still see him as a key part of the Flyers, so they will have to decide if they want to weaken that current roster.

Of course it all comes down to what is out there for him... we certainly have no idea what is being asked or offered.

That's what I mean, obviously Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Gardiner will not be included. If the worth while prospects are not available then probably not worth it for the Flyers.

Gauthiers is a hell no and Bracco....yeah rather watch Simmonds walk after the year then take him.
- Glak18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcJjlL3izVc

Some Leaf fans horde prospects like crazy.

Yeah lets turn down a good player to help us win the cup just so we can have another Josh Lievo in 4 years!
- Santo_44

Yeah, that is a little strong.

Some Leafs fans remember all too well what it was like to have no pipeline coming from the minors.

At some point, your better prospects may be necessary, especially on a Leafs team that is going to have so much invested in their top 8 or so players going foward.

I think Grundstrom is one of our better prospects.

I understand your reasoning and it is a fair ask (would cost more than just Grundstrom I think) but I am leery of getting back to a situation where we have no farm system because we traded for rentals.

I don't think anyone expects the Leafs to be drafting very high for quite a few years going forward.
- Aetherial

You can not compare these situations

The Leafs had one, maybe two good core players at that time.

The Leafs now have their core set....the time to obsess over a prospect pool is over....Sure, you still do not want to gut the system. But if you can add a good rental at the deadline and walk away with Sandin and Liljegren on the roster than there is nothing wrong with it.

I have said it many times, Leafs fans need to stop thinking winning is having good prospects...I know that is all we have had to look forward to the last decade but that time is over.

A recent blog on this site said Simmons is the most overrated player on Philly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcJjlL3izVc
- poopstash

Some Leaf fans horde prospects like crazy.

Yeah lets turn down a good player to help us win the cup just so we can have another Josh Lievo in 4 years!
- Santo_44

Leafs fans: "William Nylander is so overrated, dude is a 3rd liner at best!!!"

Fan proposes trade involving Nylander

Leafs fans: "Why would the Leafs give up a great young player like Nylander for some team's middle-6 winger!?!?"

A recent blog on this site said Simmons is the most overrated player on Philly!
- Bullot

I think that blog came from the underbelly of a landfill too...

Yeah, that is a little strong.

Some Leafs fans remember all too well what it was like to have no pipeline coming from the minors.

At some point, your better prospects may be necessary, especially on a Leafs team that is going to have so much invested in their top 8 or so players going foward.
- Aetherial

When your roster is poop yeah

But its a different time, the two situations are not comparable one bit.

Yeah, may come to that. I still see him as a key part of the Flyers, so they will have to decide if they want to weaken that current roster.

Of course it all comes down to what is out there for him... we certainly have no idea what is being asked or offered.
- Aetherial

Yeah I have a feeling Simmonds either signs somewhere else or Hextall wants to see how the season starts and his recovery to determine how much commitment he will lay down.

If Simmonds comes out on fire, he will be a Flyer for a few more years.

Leafs fans: "William Nylander is so overrated, dude is a 3rd liner at best!!!"

Fan proposes trade involving Nylander

Leafs fans: "Why would the Leafs give up a great young player like Nylander for some team's middle-6 winger!?!?"
- jmatchett383

I wouldn't trade Nylander but I see where you are coming from

Yeah, that is a little strong.

Some Leafs fans remember all too well what it was like to have no pipeline coming from the minors.

At some point, your better prospects may be necessary, especially on a Leafs team that is going to have so much invested in their top 8 or so players going foward.
- Aetherial

Yes, but when you are a "contender" you have to start going all-in. Look at Pittsburgh: they lost some impending UFAs for nothing and depleted their pick/prospect pool, but they were able to win 3 Cups in the past decade. Washington did the same, and finally got one (which I think most TML fans would be happy with at this point).

So no, while you don't want to give away the farm, if you feel that you're one piece away from making a serious run, you may have to bite the bullet.

You can not compare these situations

The Leafs had one, maybe two good core players at that time.

The Leafs now have their core set....the time to obsess over a prospect pool is over....Sure, you still do not want to gut the system. But if you can add a good rental at the deadline and walk away with Sandin and Liljegren on the roster than there is nothing wrong with it.

I have said it many times, Leafs fans need to stop thinking winning is having good prospects...I know that is all we have had to look forward to the last decade but that time is over.
- Santo_44

I don't think that time is ever "over". Granted the urgency may not be as great when we have a contending core going forward.

The thing is, this core may be many years from winning. Look how long it took that core in Washington to get over the hump, and Tampa isn't aging out of contention.

This past season we were able to let JVR, teh bozek, and Komarov walk for nothing because we had players in the minors who were "due" to get a chance.

During the time when you have the big-4 locked up, in a couple years Rielly, Kadri, Andersen and Gardiner (next year) will all need to be re-signed and likely all due to get raises.

We may be in a similar situation to this past season where we keep our "own rentals" and then can't really afford to bring them back. At that time, we need to have cheaper players on the farm who can step in and not damage the team.

A prospect pool still matters. It just comes down to what is being offered and asked and whether the player you want really puts you over the top. I still think our defense is the biggest concern so if we have a cap-space bullet to fire this season, I expect it to be fired in that direction

Also...

Look at what Tampa was able to do at the deadline. We should be striving to have a system that deep.

Yes, but when you are a "contender" you have to start going all-in. Look at Pittsburgh: they lost some impending UFAs for nothing and depleted their pick/prospect pool, but they were able to win 3 Cups in the past decade. Washington did the same, and finally got one (which I think most TML fans would be happy with at this point).

So no, while you don't want to give away the farm, if you feel that you're one piece away from making a serious run, you may have to bite the bullet.
- jmatchett383

When you have a good core you can slow down on worrying about prospects so much.

A team like Vancouver needs a good pool so they can fill all their holes in their core. However now that the Leafs have a good core signed long term(almost) then all you need to worry about is filling bandaid players....and you do not need an good prospect pool for that....

When you have a good core you can slow down on worrying about prospects so much.

A team like Vancouver needs a good pool so they can fill all their holes in their core. However now that the Leafs have a good core signed long term(almost) then all you need to worry about is filling bandaid players....and you do not need an good prospect pool for that....
- Santo_44

That's where the Flyers are at right now.

I don't think that time is ever "over". Granted the urgency may not be as great when we are in a win now mode.

The thing is, this core may be many years from winning. Look how long it took that core in Washington to get over the hump, and Tampa isn't aging out of contention.

This past season we were able to let JVR, teh bozek, and Komarov walk for nothing because we had players in the minors who were "due" to get a chance.

During the time when you have the big-4 locked up, in a couple years Rielly, Kadri, Andersen and Gardiner (next year) will all need to be re-signed and likely all due to get raises.

We may be in a similar situation to this past season where we keep our "own rentals" and then can't really afford to bring them back. At that time, we need to have cheaper players on the farm who can step in and not damage the team.

A prospect pool still matters. It just comes down to what is being offered and asked and whether the player you want really puts you over the top. I still think our defense is the biggest concern so if we have a cap-space bullet to fire, I expect it to be fired in that direction
- Aetherial

Yes those teams failed at winning at where the Leafs are now....Tampa had some very good runs when they were in the position the Leafs are in with their contracts/core. Obviously some teams will fail as only a couple can succeed. You can not look at those teams that failed at winning and say "we can't win because Tampa did not win" That is stupid.

The Leafs are in a unique position this year and they will 100% take advantage of it. And if they fail? Cool, but at least they made a run when they had an amazing opportunity to do so. You dust yourself off and keep trying.

The Leafs are in a winning mindset now, gone are the times where we should be worries about losing Grundstrom...a prospect that could be decent.

Leafs fans: "William Nylander is so overrated, dude is a 3rd liner at best!!!"

Fan proposes trade involving Nylander

Leafs fans: "Why would the Leafs give up a great young player like Nylander for some team's middle-6 winger!?!?"
- jmatchett383

I really think that sentiment is mostly coming from Simmons articles and the people who read them.

How old is Grundstrom, are we trading away a Simmonds-lite or does he ever get near the level of Simmonds.

I think Grundstrom has a real chance at a 4th line position on the Leafs this year.
- Aetherial

Simmonds turned himself into arguably the best PP specialist power forward in the league, can't really ask Grundstrom to ever get to that level.

Simmonds turned himself into arguably the best PP specialist power forward in the league, can't really ask Grundstrom to ever get to that level.
- AdamFrench

Maybe you need to ask him harder.

Yes those teams failed at winning at where the Leafs are now....Tampa had some very good runs when they were in the position the Leafs are in with their contracts/core. Obviously some teams will fail as only a couple can succeed. You can not look at those teams that failed at winning and say "we can't win because Tampa did not win" That is stupid.

The Leafs are in a winning mindset now, gone are the times where we should be worries about losing Grundstrom...a prospect that could be decent.
- Santo_44

Not saying we can't win now because Tampa or Washington didn't. Not even necessarily saying we shouldn't give up Grundstrom or trade a prospect for a rental.

Just saying I don't want a repeat of the past where it seemed like every year we were throwing away prospects and picks for rentals at the deadline... yes, I know our chances are more legit right now.

That extra cap space has a one year window and they do have to be careful with the cap still because if they use the exemption for Horton, I believe it impacts what bonuses have to be paid on next year's cap and that could be difficult.

Would rather see a defensive rental.

Now, I have to go play golf. First round with the new driver and I am pretty bad to begin with. This won't be pretty

Not saying we can't win now because Tampa or Washington didn't. Not even necessarily saying we shouldn't give up Grundstrom or trade a prospect for a rental.

Just saying I don't want a repeat of the past where it seemed like every year we were throwing away prospects and picks for rentals at the deadline... yes, I know our chances are more legit right now.

That extra cap space has a one year window and they do have to be careful with the cap still because if they use the exemption for Horton, I believe it impacts what bonuses have to be paid on next year's cap and that could be difficult.

Would rather see a defensive rental.

Now, I have to go play golf. First round with the new driver and I am pretty bad to begin with. This won't be pretty
- Aetherial

Are you going to wear a Senator Polo shirt?

Not saying we can't win now because Tampa or Washington didn't. Not even necessarily saying we shouldn't give up Grundstrom or trade a prospect for a rental.

Just saying I don't want a repeat of the past where it seemed like every year we were throwing away prospects and picks for rentals at the deadline... yes, I know our chances are more legit right now.

That extra cap space has a one year window and they do have to be careful with the cap still because if they use the exemption for Horton, I believe it impacts what bonuses have to be paid on next year's cap and that could be difficult.

Would rather see a defensive rental.

Now, I have to go play golf. First round with the new driver and I am pretty bad to begin with. This won't be pretty
- Aetherial

Always good to crush the ball so hard that you know there's no way you're gonna find it in the woods. Time saver.